Permanent Motorhomers and Liveaboards

[Peter-Bullfinch]

There seem to be a growing group of people living permanently in motorhomes if their forums and magazines are to be believed. Many seem to do so to enjoy a simpler and freer lifestyle. Some do it to be near work, some do it to travel, some to be free of the restrictions of living in a house. They pay road tax and insurance plus many pay camp site fees to enjoy the facilities there.

I wonder if just the same issues are to be found in that group by those who are reluctant to buy a licence and insurance. I suspect there might be a similar very small minority just like we note that there are on the canals and rivers.

Yes, of course the details differ for each group but, if the rules on the roads and on the sites used are flouted then the motorhome owners, just like boat owners suffer sanctions.

It would seem that if you are a motorhomer and you refuse to pay your way properly you have to remove your vehicle away from the roads you wish to travel on. I suspect some are caused real hardship by this and their vehicle, after all, is their home.

Encouraging people to try and live a very low cost lifestyle on either the roads, rivers or the canals, will never, in my view be a substitute for society having mechanisms for creating truly affordable homes for those on very low incomes.

[Lady Muck]

There are probably more people doing this in London than there are cruisers. They are hard to detect, they move every day and live in converted white vans. Got friends who do it, were sick of paying £1500 a month rent for a flat and having to move every two years due to landlords whims. We need affordable longer term tenancies in housing, like in Germany.

[Biggles]

I belong to the SBMCC. A lot of people build stealth campers. Many go to great lengths to not leave any tell.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Biggles

[sueb]

I belong to the SBMCC. A lot of people build stealth campers. Many go to great lengths to not leave any tell.

That is the difference between campers and boaters. The campers hide, don't stand out and keep moving. The boaters do the opposite

[Grace and Favour]

That is the difference between campers and boaters. The campers hide, don't stand out and keep moving. The boaters do the opposite

 

Easier to spot than campervans

 

[Midnight Rider]

Interesting subject. If these vans were not taxed, insured & illegally parked & they were also someone's home, would it stop them from being towed, impounded or crushed?

[Taslim]

Interesting subject. If these vans were not taxed, insured & illegally parked & they were also someone's home, would it stop them from being towed, impounded or crushed?

 

I think not even if they were someones home.

 

My truck is registered as an historic vehicle so attracts no excise duty but still requires its 'plate' & third party insurance to be road legal.

 

taslim.

[Biggles]

Absolutely no threat of an ANPR alert on a boat, especially if it doesn't move.

[Lady Muck]

Interesting subject. If these vans were not taxed, insured & illegally parked & they were also someone's home, would it stop them from being towed, impounded or crushed?

 

It depends where they are, I guess. There's a homeless man been living in his BMW near us for at least four years, a local caff took pity on him and he parks permanently in their carpark.

 

I have seen homeless here living in every type of dwelling you can think of. The tree house was one, then a two story dwelling made of pallets under the north circular, that was a sight to behold before it was torn down by the authorities.

[Midnight Rider]

Interesting subject. If these vans were not taxed, insured & illegally parked & they were also someone's home, would it stop them from being towed, impounded or crushed?

 

 

It depends where they are, I guess. There's a homeless man been living in his BMW near us for at least four years, a local caff took pity on him and he parks permanently in their carpark.

 

I have seen homeless here living in every type of dwelling you can think of. The tree house was one, then a two story dwelling made of pallets under the north circular, that was a sight to behold before it was torn down by the authorities.

I'm not getting at the homeless, just trying to compare a boat with a camper van.

 

If a van was parked in a public place (say a lay by) for a long period, without documents, would the fact that it was someone's home delay the law taking it's due course?

 

To answer my own question --- no it wouldn't last long & that's why they find private land. So the answer to 'homeless' boaters would seem to be to lift the boat into some sort of 'boat park' until they are in a position to pay their way.

 

Ok, maybe a bit tongue in cheek, but what the hell.

[dor]

To answer my own question --- no it wouldn't last long & that's why they find private land. So the answer to 'homeless' boaters would seem to be to lift the boat into some sort of 'boat park' until they are in a position to pay their way.

 

Ok, maybe a bit tongue in cheek, but what the hell.

 

Not such a silly idea. If all these boats that cause problems never move, why shouldn't they just be parked in a field?

[Biggles]

Not such a silly idea. If all these boats that cause problems never move, why shouldn't they just be parked in a field?

 

That would require 2 cranes, a lorry and to some extent he cooperation of the CMer unless a court order was kin place. A massive undertaking and considerable cost, and of course the land to put them on would need to be paid for.

 

I suppose a selected and targetd few might be a shot across the bows of a lot more.

[Ally]

oh so we're back to assuming CM'ers don't pay their licence & insurance are we?

[Midnight Rider]

It would seem that if you are a motorhomer and you refuse to pay your way properly you have to remove your vehicle away from the roads you wish to travel on. I suspect some are caused real hardship by this and their vehicle, after all, is their home.

 

oh so we're back to assuming CM'ers don't pay their licence & insurance are we?

Er, no --- it was replying to the OP's post.

[Ally]

so was I!!

[magpie patrick]

Not such a silly idea. If all these boats that cause problems never move, why shouldn't they just be parked in a field?

 

Not a silly idea at all, a few years ago a farmer approached me to seek planning permission for a "marina" that was nowhere near a navigable canal. No I won't say where it was. His view was that 90% of boats never left the marina they were in so did it matter, he'd happily miss out on the 10% that did.

 

It wouldn't fly, most boat owners (liveaboard or not) have an aspiration to move even if they never achieve it, plonk your boat on a tarn or corrie and that aspiration is lost, plus the obvious "floating housing estate" accusation.

[carlt]

 

If a van was parked in a public place (say a lay by) for a long period, without documents, would the fact that it was someone's home delay the law taking it's due course?

 

To answer my own question --- no it wouldn't last long & that's why they find private land.

That isn't true, though.

 

I know of one illegal encampment on the public highway that I did the first welfare survey for in 1997 that is still occupied.

 

Another that I was involved in took 14 months to evict and the Council didn't even bother disturbing a site unless there were more than 8 vehicles.

 

No action was ever taken until a full welfare survey was taken unless there was a serious safety issue when the police were asked to use their powers to move the encampment on.

 

I was visiting one site, attaching welfare questionnaires to vehicles, when one of my colleagues reproached one of the police officers escorting us for not checking tax discs and taking registration numbers.

 

The policeman's response was "We are here to ensure the safety of you and the travellers, not to take away someone's home."

 

That police officer went on to become a BW patrol officer.

 

The "private land" thing is a bit of a red herring too.

 

An illegal encampment is the responsibility of the local authority whether it is on private or public land (hence the council evicting the Dale Farm occupiers from their own land) the only difference being that the council can recover the costs of any enforcement action from the landowner.

Edited September 11, 2012 by carlt

[luctor et emergo]

I like how Carl top-posted his own answer

 

Ahh, he's just edited it....

 

Edited September 11, 2012 by luctor et emergo

[carlt]

I like how Carl top-posted his own answer

 

Ahh, he's just edited it....

 

I tried to edit my original post so that it made sense but hit "reply" instead of "edit".

 

It is way past my bedtime.

[Guest wanted]

My Brother lived in his truck for over ten years on council land. He never had an engine let alone a tax disk. Every two months the council would turn up and tow him to another layby! Eventually they realised that this was silly so designated a layby for up to eight pitches for him. I would suggest that you are better off on council land, especially of they have sold there housing stock off and have a huge waiting list!

[GSer]

A few years back I met a guy who lived in an old bread lorry, sign written and everything, a tail lift carried his motorbike in and out of his 'garage', the inside was like a palace very well insulated and very very cosy. Much better (and bigger) than most modern mobile homes i've seen

 

In the years he'd been doing it, nobody in authority had ever badgered him about his lifestyle. Top guy, ran his own little on line mail order business selling expedition equipment.

 

 

I think it's what I would do if I were forced to leave the waterways by the miserable gits that seem to think that alternative lifestyles are to be frowned upon rather than applauded

[nb Innisfree]

I predict a future trend towards alternate lifestyles, may take a generation or so but I think folks have a deep seated urge to be nomadic, something from our hunter gatherer origins maybe.

[shugie]

I predict a future trend towards alternate lifestyles, may take a generation or so but I think folks have a deep seated urge to be nomadic, something from our hunter gatherer origins maybe.

 

Whenever my kids kick off big time, I get a strong urge to become nomadic, preferably some distance away. If I didn't have kids, I reckon I'd be quite happy living on a boat now. The only problem I could see is that the firearms chappie at Thames Valley Police might not be keen on renewing my licence if he thought I'd gone a wandering.

 

I stay in my van happily enough in the summer, would need some form of heating in the winter, one snowy weekend in Shropshire there was ice on the inside from my breathing out.

[GSer]

Whenever my kids kick off big time, I get a strong urge to become nomadic, preferably some distance away. If I didn't have kids, I reckon I'd be quite happy living on a boat now. The only problem I could see is that the firearms chappie at Thames Valley Police might not be keen on renewing my licence if he thought I'd gone a wandering.

 

I stay in my van happily enough in the summer, would need some form of heating in the winter, one snowy weekend in Shropshire there was ice on the inside from my breathing out.

 

 

Hi Hugh After asking our local (to work) police, the gun licence shouldn't be a problem but they'll want to see the secure stowage, go for it!

 

Shep

[Alan de Enfield]

Hi Hugh After asking our local (to work) police, the gun licence shouldn't be a problem but they'll want to see the secure stowage, go for it!

 

Shep

 

I have also looked into this as it will affect what I end up doing with my SG and FAC when we eventually liveaboard

.

There is a requirement to notify you issuing force if you move 'house'. It appears that if registered to a 'moving boat' it would be expected that the Firearms Dept would need to be informed (in writing) that you are leaving their 'area', you would then also have to notify the 'new' area that you have arrived.

 

So if we wanted a trip to the Llangollen we would have to notify :

Lincolnshire Police we were leaving

Nottinghamshire we were 'arriving'

Nottinghamshire we were leaving

Derbyshire we were arriving

Derbyshire we were leaving

Staffs we were arriving

Staffs we were leaving

Cheshire ..........

 

etc etc and then the same in reverse for the return journey.

 

I think that the day we become liveaboards the guns will have to go into storage with a local RFD.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Alan de Enfield