Why not become a CRT'er

[adam1uk]

Now its a charity I assume its VAT exempt ....have not seen the fees go down or is that a hidden rise ??

 

Yes, you are wrong. To put a bit more detail on it: BW could have been VAT exempt (in fact, it was for a while). But it's actually beneficial to charge VAT, because you can them claim back the VAT that you pay to other companies. And as BW/C&RT pays quite a lot of VAT, that's a lot to claim back. When BW made the change, it was done in such a way that the price of licences etc didn't go up.

[Ronniesonic]

One example is they could not accept outside funding no matter what shape it was in.

 

 

Absolute rubbish, this is typical "Narrowboatworld" crap. Many targets have been acheived, here in the Midlands for instance our canals have improved immensly. Get out of you seat and go look around the system is not falling apart its vastly improved!

 

Hello Laurence- Firstly may I compliment your determination. Secondly, I have enjoyed your publications.

 

However, I have to take you to task on the above.

 

BW did not require additional funding. In my earlier post I made reference to having read their Accounts. This coupled with the other REPEATED mistakes is damning evidence that the Senior Management Team are not fit for purpose. As for the latest renumeration package details, Tolkein could not make it up.

It's tier 2 Football territory. Ironic really, remembering that they also get paid when they fail.

 

BW & the vast sums they had at their disposal have NOT improved the Canals immensly. Without being flippant, this is akin to having a derilect house with no windows, subsequently having one window fitted, with the appraisal being, 'immensely improved'.

Why should we accept mediocre? BW may have done good things but their crime is all of the things they did not do.

 

I personally cannot understand how this regime was allowed to continue, let alone be heading C&RT?

 

I sincerely hope I eat humble pie on this but I have zero evidence to make me have a more positive outlook.

 

If I can be flippant to finish, I made a Football reference earlier. Therefore an appropriate, topical, terrace chant about C&RT could be;

 

''Are you G4S in disguise......... are you G4S in disguise''

[pearlygeoff]

Laurence and Carlt

 

Perhaps you should take a trip up the Trent and Mersey bouncing over the kerbstones that have fallen in and are unlikely to be removed.

 

Encouraging 30,000 motorboats onto a canal built for horsedrawn boats is not the way to look after a canal system.

 

Marquis

 

Yes I am still at Marston. Licence revoked February 2010 so not allowed to move. (Because I wouldn't move in the ice).

 

Think about it.

[carlt]

Laurence and Carlt

 

Perhaps you should take a trip up the Trent and Mersey bouncing over the kerbstones that have fallen in and are unlikely to be removed.

I've been up the T&M plenty thanks. You should have seen the state of it in 1983.

Encouraging 30,000 motorboats onto a canal built for horsedrawn boats is not the way to look after a canal system.

If that's your opinion why on earth are you adding to the problem?

Vote with your feet...Only another 29,999 to go.

 

 

Yes I am still at Marston. Licence revoked February 2010 so not allowed to move. (Because I wouldn't move in the ice).

 

Think about it.

Like I said before....When I approached BW about being iced in they were most understanding.

 

Perhaps if you moderated your approach, rather than calling them Jack booted Nazis, you wouldn't be in the position you have put yourself in.

 

Think about it.

[Tuscan]

I really want the new organisation to work, I do share others doubts that the management team need refreshing, I don't have a problem with high salaries or bonuses as long as they are set to specific performance targets. We are obviously a biased group of canal users but without boats of all types including deep drafted boats (I am biased here) the attraction for many none boat canal users would wane. So we need a clear navigation policy that means dredging. I seem to be reading more about ecology and new fauna etc than I do about mantenance priorities. Great if we get new charitable donations that fund some of these projects but I would like to see some core basics that are linked to any payments.

[Ange]

SNIP

Like I said before....When I approached BW about being iced in they were most understanding.

 

That reflects our experience with BW. We've been iced in twice for prolonged periods, both times BW were very understanding. As they were when we needed to overstay at a 7 day visitor mooring for medical reasons (I needed consistent after care for a few weeks following an operation).

 

I don't understand how a licence can have been revoked after just a simple case of being iced in when it happens to boaters regularly all over the system. There must be more to it.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I really want the new organisation to work, I do share others doubts that the management team need refreshing, I don't have a problem with high salaries or bonuses as long as they are set to specific performance targets. We are obviously a biased group of canal users but without boats of all types including deep drafted boats (I am biased here) the attraction for many none boat canal users would wane. So we need a clear navigation policy that means dredging. I seem to be reading more about ecology and new fauna etc than I do about mantenance priorities. Great if we get new charitable donations that fund some of these projects but I would like to see some core basics that are linked to any payments.

 

Unfortunately, based on BW's projections, CART can not stop its waterways deteriorating. The reason for this is that BW has underspent on the waterways for eight years and the projection is that CART will continue to do so for the next 15 years,

 

It is really a case of how large the underspend (aka funding gap) will be. Robin Evans told MP's that, in 2010/11, the underspend was £39m (i.e BW spent £81m but needed to spend £120m).

[Allan(nb Albert)]

That reflects our experience with BW. We've been iced in twice for prolonged periods, both times BW were very understanding. As they were when we needed to overstay at a 7 day visitor mooring for medical reasons (I needed consistent after care for a few weeks following an operation).

 

I don't understand how a licence can have been revoked after just a simple case of being iced in when it happens to boaters regularly all over the system. There must be more to it.

 

Narrowboatworld article by Geoff which might help with your understanding.

[Paul C]

Narrowboatworld article by Geoff which might help with your understanding.

 

Thanks for the article link. When is the date of the hearing? Will be interested to hear of the outcome (and the underlying facts).

[Graham Davis]

So the fact that he didn't move during a period was only part of his "problem".

 

No sympathy from here.

[Tuscan]

Unfortunately, based on BW's projections, CART can not stop its waterways deteriorating. The reason for this is that BW has underspent on the waterways for eight years and the projection is that CART will continue to do so for the next 15 years,

 

It is really a case of how large the underspend (aka funding gap) will be. Robin Evans told MP's that, in 2010/11, the underspend was £39m (i.e BW spent £81m but needed to spend £120m).

 

 

 

 

Therein lies my fear that new projects will be launched based on anticipated charity income which then are subsidised from the mainstream when the donations don't hit the expected levels.

[Laurence Hogg]

Laurence and Carlt

 

Perhaps you should take a trip up the Trent and Mersey bouncing over the kerbstones that have fallen in and are unlikely to be removed.

 

Encouraging 30,000 motorboats onto a canal built for horsedrawn boats is not the way to look after a canal system.

 

Marquis

 

Yes I am still at Marston. Licence revoked February 2010 so not allowed to move. (Because I wouldn't move in the ice).

 

Think about it.

 

We have plenty of kerbstones in the BCN plus other stuff, mostly now removed. You see we get on with our BW (CRT) manager and treat him as a mate and his team also, because we get on we get listened to and together we get a grip on things and problems get solved, its called respect and working together.

 

Frankly getting 30000+ boats onto the canals is what I call a success and those that did it, the trade and BW need congratulating. And as you are a permanent fixture near or on the Marston new cut you are on a waterway built for motor boats!

[carlt]

Narrowboatworld article by Geoff which might help with your understanding.

No offence, Allan but considering NBW's insults and gloating over a legally moored wooden Thos Clayton Tarboat that was torched by vandals, their support of someone who openly admits to flouting the law (not just because of ice) tells me nothing.

 

The nastiness and vitriol that Geoff has displayed here on this website, towards BW, tells me more about why his experience differs from so many others', than anything I'm likely to read in the NBW blog.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

No offence, Allan but considering NBW's insults and gloating over a legally moored wooden Thos Clayton Tarboat that was torched by vandals, their support of someone who openly admits to flouting the law (not just because of ice) tells me nothing.

 

The nastiness and vitriol that Geoff has displayed here on this website, towards BW, tells me more about why his experience differs from so many others', than anything I'm likely to read in the NBW blog.

 

No offence taken Carl but my purpose was to inform Athy rather than give you a platform to restate your own gripes with narrowboatworld.

 

I am sure readers on here will now have a better understanding of Geoff's views as did readers on narrowboatworld.

 

Therein lies my fear that new projects will be launched based on anticipated charity income which then are subsidised from the mainstream when the donations don't hit the expected levels.

 

I think that has already happened with CART no longer following governments strategic steer.

[carlt]

 

I am sure readers on here will now have a better understanding of Geoff's views as did readers on narrowboatworld.

 

Unlikely as they, once again, only get. one side of the story.

 

Pearlygeoff's offensive comments and aggressive manner, here, combined with other folks' contrasting experiences, here, suggest to me that the other side of the story is worth considering.

Edited July 19, 2012 by carlt

[Chris Pink]

Trouble is with both sides more interested on hyperbolic propaganda than arriving at a solution or telling the bare story there is no way of knowing where the true solution lies.

 

My take is that there is fault on both sides and it is a shame so much money will be spent arriving at a position neither party will be happy with.

[carlt]

No offence taken Carl but my purpose was to inform Athy rather than give you a platform to restate your own gripes with narrowboatworld.

Interesting that you should describe someone questioning the accuracy and impartiality of NBW as a "gripe" whilst defending someone who describes BW as "jackbooted Nazis".

 

No bias there then Allan....

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Interesting that you should describe someone questioning the accuracy and impartiality of NBW as a "gripe" whilst defending someone who describes BW as "jackbooted Nazis".

 

No bias there then Allan....

 

I posted a link to a narrowboatworld article by Geoff which I thought might help Athy and others understand his position.

 

I would suggest it is more a case of Geoff defending himself.....

[carlt]

I posted a link to a narrowboatworld article by Geoff which I thought might help Athy and others understand his position.

 

I would suggest it is more a case of Geoff defending himself.....

I would suggest that the article tells us nothing but his side of the story, using more moderate language than he has used here.

 

So we still only get the biased version.

 

I would also suggest that if you don't want to be accused of bias you let him defend himself.

[jenlyn]

Have NABO been involved with this case, if so, have they made or come to any conclusions?

I have to say also that although Alan comes out with some clap trap when news items are sparse, he does produce the goods at times. A lot of information we have comes from his obsession. I would rather have him here than not. It's simple enough to sort the rubbish from the facts he provides.

[carlt]

I have to say also that although Alan comes out with some clap trap when news items are sparse, he does produce the goods at times.

I too have supported Allan and the quality of most of his material is very much out of place on the NBW blog.

 

I also note that Pearlygeoff speaks highly of NBW, as well as CWDF...

 

This site is as bad as Narrowboatworld...which is nothing more than a propaganda vehicle for a certain element in boat clubs, canal societies and marinas that have a blinkered hatred for those actually living on the waterways who seem now to be generally referred to as 'continuous moorers'.

[pearlygeoff]

Carlt

 

You have a lot to say but nothing worth listening to.

 

You are not interested in the facts or the evidence but only in your pointlessly pedantic posturing and pontification.

 

The only opinion I'm interested in, and the only one based on the evidence, is that of the court.

 

You, and the rest of the uninformed 'doubters', merely exhibit your innate prejudice posing as informed opinion.

 

I'll leave you to it.

[carlt]

Carlt

 

You have a lot to say but nothing worth listening to.

 

Some would agree with you, others would disagree.

 

 

You are not interested in the facts or the evidence but only in your pointlessly pedantic posturing and pontification.

On the contrary, I would love to see some facts presented, rather than abuse and insults.

 

The only opinion I'm interested in, and the only one based on the evidence, is that of the court.

In that case how do you expect anyone to be interested in your opinions and unsubstantiated claims?

 

You, and the rest of the uninformed 'doubters', merely exhibit your innate prejudice posing as informed opinion.

I am uninformed about the facts because you choose not to present them but your abuse aimed at BW and your insults aimed at myself and other CWDF members provides plenty of evidence as to the attitude you presented to BW.

 

I'll leave you to it.

As you wish.

 

It would appear that you are your own worst enemy and, by turning people against you, with your attitude and insults, you have not received the support and assistance that BW have given to others and you don't rally much support in places like this, either.

 

I put it to you again, in the nicest possible way, that had you been more cooperative and less confrontational you would have had more leeway given by BW and more support for your plight now.

 

I'm not sure where you get my "innate prejudice" from as I am one of BW's more vocal critics here (dealing with facts, not Godwinian abuse) and I watched while BW craned out my home (a Thos Clayton Tar boat), broke it in half and put it on two trailers to be taken away and broken up.

 

I was highly critical of the way the process was carried out but I did not lower myself and demean my argument by using the abusive language that you have used here.

Edited July 19, 2012 by carlt

[Graham Davis]

Carlt

 

You have a lot to say but nothing worth listening to.

 

You are not interested in the facts or the evidence but only in your pointlessly pedantic posturing and pontification.

 

The only opinion I'm interested in, and the only one based on the evidence, is that of the court.

 

You, and the rest of the uninformed 'doubters', merely exhibit your innate prejudice posing as informed opinion.

 

I'll leave you to it.

 

How can we be prejudiced when we only have your biased side of the story?

 

(Mods, this really should be in a seperate thread)

[Theo]

Well tomorrows sees the launch of CRT. You can now join for just £3.00 a month which I think is reasonable: https://canalrivertr...lved/donate-now

It wont take long before we will be seeing if this new style of governing our waterways will work, by becoming a CRT'er it will help rally support for the new charity.

 

We could do with someone drawing up a unofficial "CRT'er" logo (cartoon) so we could be individual CRT'ers (Canal River Trust Enrolled supporter) - as the charity if anything it is a bit stark IMHO and needs a more cheerful look to it.

 

In Birmingham today posters are alongside main roads advertising CRT and chuggers seemed to collaring folks at the top of Farmers Bridge.

 

Go on, its only £3.00 a month to be a CRT'er!!

 

https://canalrivertr...lved/donate-now

 

Good idea.

 

Done that.

 

Nick