MY JSA SUSPENDED AGAIN

[carlt]

 

When was the last time you heard of someone taking a TV to get it fixed?

Mine has been repaired twice.

 

Resole a pair of shoes? Its cheaper to buy a new pair

The OH does all the time.

My Timberlands appear to be indestructable (getting on for 10 years of abuse now) and I tend to wear cotton and rubber pumps that get glued together regularly. My smart leather shoes are unlikely to ever wear out. I don't do that many weddings or funerals.

Buy fresh vegetables and make a meal? When you can get an M&S meal for 2 for less than a tenner

I've never bought an M&S meal and cook a meal every day.

[KevMc]

Mine has been repaired twice.

 

 

The OH does all the time.

My Timberlands appear to be indestructable (getting on for 10 years of abuse now) and I tend to wear cotton and rubber pumps that get glued together regularly. My smart leather shoes are unlikely to ever wear out. I don't do that many weddings or funerals.

 

I've never bought an M&S meal and cook a meal every day.

 

In which case you are part of the solution not the problem

[carlt]

So how do you ring fence something that you dont classify?

I thought my comment was self-explanatory and my views obvious.

 

If asked to contribute more, as ring-fenced taxation, I will decide whether I feel it is worthy or not at the time.

 

In which case you are part of the solution not the problem

The retail sector might not agree with you.

 

Buy fresh vegetables and make a meal? When you can get an M&S meal for 2 for less than a tenner

Oh and you'd better have a greenie as you've reminded me to take something out of the freezer for tea tonight.

[Naughty Cal]

I've never bought an M&S meal and cook a meal every day.

 

On that I can agree with you.

 

You cant beat a freshly cooked meal with proper meat and vegetables

[Guest]

On that I can agree with you.

 

You cant beat a freshly cooked meal with proper meat and vegetables

 

I conceded we were 'ready meal' junkies when we were working being too lazy busy to cook a proper meal each evening, since retiring this has completely turned around. It's a pity it took a need to focus on our reduced disposable income to force the change, we should have done it years ago.

[Athy]

Have a read of this if you have time . http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/03/06/vodafone-the-story-so-far/

Thanks for posting that, most illuminating, and not a story which i had heard of before. I didn't know that Vodafone were the biggest mobile telephone company and that they were British (Hurrah!), nor that they had avoided paying tax on such a vast amount of income (boo!)

[mayalld]

I don't...I wasn't aware I had to.

 

If you advocate increased taxation to be ring fenced for the "more vulnerable", they surely you must have some idea how that class of person is to be defined.

 

How are those administering the ring fenced funds to decide who is "more vulnerable"?

 

Will they perhaps apply some kind of objective test?

[LoneWolf]

By occasionally peering over the top of your daily express?

 

Arf. i wish i hadn't used up my greenies on carlts posts now

[carlt]

If you advocate increased taxation to be ring fenced for the "more vulnerable", they surely you must have some idea how that class of person is to be defined.

 

How are those administering the ring fenced funds to decide who is "more vulnerable"?

 

Will they perhaps apply some kind of objective test?

As I have said...If the government announce that they are putting a penny in the pound increase on income tax and it will be ring fenced for a specific department or project then I will decide at that point whether I will pay it happily or grudgingly.

 

What I won't do, however, is try to find a loophole to avoid paying it whether I agree with it or not.

[mayalld]

As I have said...If the government announce that they are putting a penny in the pound increase on income tax and it will be ring fenced for a specific department or project then I will decide at that point whether I will pay it happily or grudgingly.

 

What I won't do, however, is try to find a loophole to avoid paying it whether I agree with it or not.

 

OK, in the news tomorrow, it is announced that a penny will be put on income tax, and that it will be ring fenced to make payments equal to JSA to everybody who has their JSA stopped for breaking one of the rules that cause JSA to be stopped.

 

There will be no questions asked about whether the sanction was fair or not. The money will be an automatic right, and nobody need ever bother to obey JCP instructions again.

 

Happy or grudging?

[carlt]

Happy or grudging?

Actually rather more than grudging. I would actively protest against such a move.

 

Whilst I believe that anyone who has their benefits stopped should have a right of appeal, that appeal should be fair, not "no questions asked".

 

Edited to add: I'm not going to answer every single scenario you can think of, by the way, so can this be the first and last?

Edited May 30, 2012 by carlt

[Higgs]

Given the chance would you pay less tax if you could get away with it?

 

 

Would you accept someone doing work for you, cutting corners to increase profits - if they could get away with it.

 

To 'get away with it' sounds as though some feel they can work the system as mercenaries, forgetting whole sections of society. No choice of getting away with it.

 

When does getting away with it become exploitation of the weak by those with weak moral social leanings. If everything is allowed, it's no wonder that ripping off is just a way of business/life.

 

I pressume that you enjoy feeling that what you buy is worth the money spent. Although, shoplifting is much easier on the wallet. But, if you can get away with - why not.

 

Is every transaction of the self employed declared..............no.

 

How fair or unfair should society be. It's probably fairer for those that can get away with it.

[the grinch]

Given the chance would you pay less tax if you could get away with it?

I do & I do by the virtue of struggling to keep my small business going (& so not be in the OP's position)i actually have paid no tax on my profit (so little anyway) as to actually be under the tax threshold for over 4 years! still have to pay VAT and NI unfortunately!

[KevMc]

As I have said...If the government announce that they are putting a penny in the pound increase on income tax and it will be ring fenced for a specific department or project then I will decide at that point whether I will pay it happily or grudgingly.

 

What I won't do, however, is try to find a loophole to avoid paying it whether I agree with it or not.

 

What if they made it optional ?

 

Isn't one man's loophole another's allowance?

 

Back in the "good old days" you could claim tax relief on mortgage interest, would that have been a loophole?

 

When they blocked that some banks introduced an account that netted the interest you earned on savings against the interest you paid on your mortgage so in effect your savings interest was tax free(assuming it was less than your mortgage interest), is that a loophole or just being smart?

 

 

When I lived in Ireland all interest paid could be claimed against your tax liability, including credit cards and loans; it only seems fair to me that if you are charged tax on interest earned then you should be able to claim it back on interest paid.... but that is probably a separate discussion.

[carlt]

What if they made it optional ?

For some it would already appear to be.

[Guest wanted]

Arf. i wish i hadn't used up my greenies on carlts posts now

 

Fear not, for a free life cannot acquire many greenies, because this is not easy to do without servility to mobs or monarchs.

Epicurus (sort of)

 

 

[carlt]

Fear not, for a free life cannot acquire many greenies, because this is not easy to do without servility to mobs or monarchs.

Oi! What are you trying to say?

[NB Alnwick]

For some it would already appear to be.

 

As someone who has just advised HMRC that they have got their sums wrong with the effect that I need to pay an extra £1,300 tax on my pensions I naturally feel resentment toward those who deliberately evade taxation.

 

I accept that we live in a global economy and that buying some imported goods will always be inevitable but I think what most people fail to appreciate is that we, the ordinary people, can make a difference. Every time we choose something that has been grown, made, prepared or assembled by British workers we are helping ourselves by increasing local employment prospects, paying local taxes and reducing the number of people that we all have to support through state hand-outs. If we all could do just a little more in this direction (such as when I searched for, and found, British made paintbrushes) we will start to make a difference.

[magpie patrick]

What if they made it optional ?

 

Isn't one man's loophole another's allowance?

 

Back in the "good old days" you could claim tax relief on mortgage interest, would that have been a loophole?

 

When they blocked that some banks introduced an account that netted the interest you earned on savings against the interest you paid on your mortgage so in effect your savings interest was tax free(assuming it was less than your mortgage interest), is that a loophole or just being smart?

 

 

When I lived in Ireland all interest paid could be claimed against your tax liability, including credit cards and loans; it only seems fair to me that if you are charged tax on interest earned then you should be able to claim it back on interest paid.... but that is probably a separate discussion.

 

I think we are talking small amounts though, and tax relief on mortgage interest never got over £30k, even once house prices had spiralled

 

I recall talking (probably ten years ago) to a tax inspector who complained about the things that she wasn't in a position to investigate. I can't recall the exact example but it amounted to, lets say radio sets, being brought from India for £1 each, being notionally sold to a channel island company who then sold the sets on to the British retailer for £10, who sold the sets for £11. This practice may now have been stopped by legislation, but the effect was that £9 of profit was untaxed.

 

The Radios never even went to the channel islands. It may be legal, but it certainly isn't ethical.

 

The point is that it isn't hamsterfan or me working out a little dodge to make ends meet, it's huge corporations working out a dodge to force feed themselves with even more money.

 

I accept the point about repairs and the like, but even then (again ten years ago) I knew the owner of a repair shop who had to turn work away because the parts for the repair cost more than a new TV/CD whatever. And shoes, none of my shoes are repairable at the local shop, who came up with that then? The supplier of the shoes I expect. At least we have a local seamstress who can repair our clothes.

[mayalld]

Actually rather more than grudging. I would actively protest against such a move.

 

Whilst I believe that anyone who has their benefits stopped should have a right of appeal, that appeal should be fair, not "no questions asked".

 

Edited to add: I'm not going to answer every single scenario you can think of, by the way, so can this be the first and last?

 

Indeed it can, because the answer that you have given rather makes my point.

 

As soon as somebody has their JSA stopped, tales of how they are doing this all the time are wheeled out, and there is a knee-jerk assumption that any sanction is unfair.

 

Yes, there will be cases where people are unfairly sanctioned, but there are also case where they are not, and (based on the information supplied by the OP), this one doesn't look manifestly unfair.

 

It is reasonable to expect that claimants will actually apply themselves diligently to obeying the rules, and NOT expect the system to just look after everything for them.

[KevMc]

..... it's huge corporations working out a dodge to force feed themselves with even more money......

 

In my opinion it's poor drafting of the law that is to blame in many cases (although not necessarily the one you quote)

[carlt]

Indeed it can, because the answer that you have given rather makes my point.

 

As soon as somebody has their JSA stopped, tales of how they are doing this all the time are wheeled out, and there is a knee-jerk assumption that any sanction is unfair.

I'm not sure it's made a point about anything I've said.

 

I have made no comment about the OP's situation because I don't know anything about it.

 

If I were to express an opinion, based on the information provided, I would probably agree with Smelly's post.

 

As long as you are paid to look for work, rather than being paid to be unemployed, then you have to be seen to be fulfilling that obligation.

 

I found it quite easy to fulfil but it did mean I never signed on for long.

Edited May 30, 2012 by carlt

[LoneWolf]

Fear not, for a free life cannot acquire many greenies, because this is not easy to do without servility to mobs or monarchs.

Epicurus (sort of)

 

 

 

Ah Epicurus, he talked a lot of sense about happiness.

 

did he not also say 'bring me a pot of beer & i shall have a feast'

[FORTUNATA]

Let's be careful here. I just popped in and can see my controversial thread has been pretty active. I was disappointed to see a bit of ganging up on my position from many others and would only say in response there is a very fine line between being reasonable and a doormat. Too many people these days simply accept unfair play, be it from employers or Government departments. It doesn't win respect, trust me. You will be a doormat even more.

This is what I'm saying exactly: I do not know what happened with this appointment. It's possible I failed to understand some information but I have no way of recollecting. At work, I recall once being accused of not locking a factory gate, being severley told off and then myself unable to recall whether I locked it or not. Then it turned out some manager had come into the factory while I was on patrol and he had left the gate unlocked. Nobody apologised either.

If I missed an appointment to me it seems reasonable to be handed some kind of written warning. It's what happens in employment situations. Any working person would be horrified to be told by his or her Boss there would be no pay for 3 weeks because of a mistake (misbooking an appoinment, making an accountancy mistake and so on).

Am I the only one who's fallible? Hey, people, I make mistakes. Every so often I screw up. I'm human not a machine. When other people make mistakes I'm tolerant. I don't claim to be any better.

And,of course, it's kind of late now. The shit has well and truly hit the fan and, sure thing, I know I may come off worse but perhaps I'd rather that than be a pushover.

 

I think that you and Tuscan may be missing Fortunatas real point, the system doesn't work, they don't have any set rules (they make their own up) and they see any route to cut benefit and they will do, whether fair or not.

 

I have tried to get support to set my own business up, they will not consider it until I am 6 months unemployed, and then I have to have my own money.

I have tried to get support to do courses (ie BSC cert ) and cannot get anything before 6 months is up, and then they will not pay to retrain me in any courses out of my field.

Stand back and look beyond the Governments rhetoric, they couldn't give a toss about the almost 3m unemployed, they only give a toss about whether they will still be here at the next election.

Edited May 30, 2012 by FORTUNATA

[Naughty Cal]

Let's be careful here. I just popped in and can see my controversial thread has been pretty active. I was disappointed to see a bit of ganging up on my position from many others and would only say in response there is a very fine line between being reasonable and a doormat. Too many people these days simply accept unfair play, be it from employers or Government departments. It doesn't win respect, trust me. You will be a doormat even more.

This is what I'm saying exactly: I do not know what happened with this appointment. It's possible I failed to understand some information but I have no way of recollecting. At work, I recall once being accused of not locking a factory gate, being severley told off and then myself unable to recall whether I locked it or not. Then it turned out some manager had come into the factory while I was on patrol and he had left the gate unlocked. Nobody apologised either.

If I missed an appointment to me it seems reasonable to be handed some kind of written warning. It's what happens in employment situations. Any working person would be horrified to be told by his or her Boss there would be no pay for 3 weeks because of a mistake (misbooking an appoinment, making an accountancy mistake and so on).

Am I the only one who's fallible? Hey, people, I make mistakes. Every so often I screw up. I'm human not a machine. When other people make mistakes I'm tolerant. I don't claim to be any better.

And,of course, it's kind of late now. The shit has well and truly hit the fan and, sure thing, I know I may come off worse but perhaps I'd rather that than be a pushover.

 

And if you missed a second appointment?

 

ETA: It isnt about being a pushover or a doormat. It is about admitting that you have made a mistake and accepting the consequences for that mistake.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Phylis