MY JSA SUSPENDED AGAIN

[Hairy-Neil]

If we all took care to support British jobs and British workers by buying British goods rather than cheap imported products from areas where the workers exist in little better than slave labour conditions, then there would be plenty of jobs and little need of doling out subsistence to the unemployed. I know that is a simplistic generalisation and I know that some believe that buying goods imported from the poorer regions of the world is helping those people. All well and good but as a nation that no longer enjoys colonial wealth, we probably need to look after ourselves a bit more and at the moment the tables are tipped against us . . .

 

Do we actually make anything much more in this country, beyond pre-pack sandwiches and ready meals ?

[Guest]

Some in government lie as do some in finance,as do some on benefits and possibly some on this forum..

It don't make it right though, does it?

[Athy]

Graham/ Alnwick, I fully agree with you in principle. However, the key word in your post is "cheap", which for many people is synonymous with "affordable". Some people may choose to buy a cheaper overseas product rather than a dearer UK-made one, but others do not have that choice: for them it's buy the cheaper one, or go without because they can't afford to pay twice the price for something manufactured locally.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Athy

[Guest]

Please elaborate about your experience .............

NO. the person is too dear to me to air her dirty washing on a public forum.

 

The jobless total will get a lot higher before it starts to come down again, we'll stay in recession until such time as there are enough cheap easy pickings for the rich, like repossessed houses and bankrupt businesses.

 

The double dip will most likely be far more severe then the past 3 years, so look forward to more wage & pension cuts, spending cuts etc etc and tax rises in the next budget. All the clues are there, personal credit card debt is massively up, although the government would have you believe we're paying down debt. Government debt is also up, income tax revenue is falling over 12% benefits rising 11% One of the biggest factors though is the true unemployment rate which at conservative estimates is double what the official figures give. The rise in the amount of people now on short hours,16 hours a week plus adds sway to this figure. Over half the people on our trading estate are now working a shorter week in one way or another, and that's on top of the dozens laid off over the past year.

 

Not even public sector jobs will be safe when the SH1t hits the fan.

I think you have been reading my mail! Pension cuts, spending cuts, short time at work, public sector job under threat; tell me about it!

 

I also agree with your sentiment that there is worse to come. It could be anyone's turn next; being smug is foolish.

[Ex- Member]

If we all took care to support British jobs and British workers by buying British goods rather than cheap imported products from areas where the workers exist in little better than slave labour conditions, then there would be plenty of jobs and little need of doling out subsistence to the unemployed. I know that is a simplistic generalisation and I know that some believe that buying goods imported from the poorer regions of the world is helping those people. All well and good but as a nation that no longer enjoys colonial wealth, we probably need to look after ourselves a bit more and at the moment the tables are tipped against us . . .

 

You'll be hard pushed to find much made in Britain any more, our manufacturing industry has been decimated and will probably never recover as the far east countries now seem to have it progressed to a point where the goods they are supplying are now of some quality and we'll never be able to compete again. Also most of the far East workers are actually quite well paid in relation to their individual countries overall wealth but of course paid a lot less in financial terms than is required to subsist in this country.

 

You can also be pretty sure that even if you buy anything "British" especially electrical items that the majority of it's components are actually made in China and the far east, that's why it's all so cheap. If it was all made in Britain a large proportion of us wouldn't be able to afford it as it would probably be twice the price.

 

China will be the new world superpower, they already are from a financial aspect, so stage 1 accomplished.

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Do we actually make anything much more in this country, beyond pre-pack sandwiches and ready meals ?

 

Dont get him going........he will start harping on about Brompton flippin push bikes.......

 

Tim

[Guest]

Graham/ Alnwick, I fully agree with you in principle. However, the key word in your post is "cheap", which for many people is synonymous with "affordable". Some people may choose to buy a cheaper overseas product rather than a dearer UK-made one, but others do not have that choice: for them it's buy the cheaper one, or go without because they can't afford to pay twice the price for something manufactured locally.

 

That's a fair point, and until recently it was possible to both buy a 'foreign' product but made by British workers eg Sanyo/Sony/Panasonic, but nowadays that opportunity is lessening year on year as even these guys move production back to the far east/eastern Europe.

 

The only exception to that at the moment seems to be with foreign owned UK based car manufacture with Nissan and Jaguar/Land Rover on the ascendency.

 

(I won't mention that we have just bought a FIAT 500 which is made in Poland.... )

[carlt]

All well and good but as a nation that no longer enjoys colonial wealth, we probably need to look after ourselves a bit more and at the moment the tables are tipped against us . . .

Sorry Graham but the period when we were seeing sustained growth and a budget surplus was when we were giving up our "colonial wealth" and letting those people we stole it from have their countries back.

 

It is the 33 years of sticking to a failed economic formula that has brought us to this point, not giving back our stolen property.

 

If we only bought British then perhaps we should give up exporting, too, or is it okay for foreigners to support our flagging economy but we shouldn't support theirs?

 

Protectionism is just one step away from Nationalism, of the unhealthy kind.

 

I will only buy local food, when possible (happy to support the overseas coffee industry, though) but if we were to only buy British manufactured goods then we would have to get a time machine (British Made, of course) and go back 40 years to when we actually made things other than numbers on a (chinese) screen.

[Guest]

If we all took care to support British jobs and British workers by buying British goods rather than cheap imported products from areas where the workers exist in little better than slave labour conditions, then there would be plenty of jobs and little need of doling out subsistence to the unemployed. I know that is a simplistic generalisation and I know that some believe that buying goods imported from the poorer regions of the world is helping those people. All well and good but as a nation that no longer enjoys colonial wealth, we probably need to look after ourselves a bit more and at the moment the tables are tipped against us . . .

40 years ago I would have written that same paragraph almost word for word. 40 years on, we are much more of a global economy playing under a very different set of rules. The world is a much smaller place today, and will shrink even more. We need to think very differently today in order to survive in this global economy. I don't particularly like the idea, but have learned to accept it. It is up to our powers that be to represent us within this global economy, and create a fair balance of trade.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Guest

[Boat&Bikes]

You'll be hard pushed to find much made in Britain any more, our manufacturing industry has been decimated and will probably never recover as the far east countries now seem to have it progressed to a point where the goods they are supplying are now of some quality and we'll never be able to compete again. Also most of the far East workers are actually quite well paid in relation to their individual countries overall wealth but of course paid a lot less in financial terms than is required to subsist in this country.

 

You can also be pretty sure that even if you buy anything "British" especially electrical items that the majority of it's components are actually made in China and the far east, that's why it's all so cheap. If it was all made in Britain a large proportion of us wouldn't be able to afford it as it would probably be twice the price.

 

China will be the new world superpower, they already are from a financial aspect, so stage 1 accomplished.

 

 

There are many items made here,and there will be more and more over the coming years.Our company has fought for sales against cheaper and inferior products over the recent years.These products,often from China are now increasing in cost and we are reaping the rewards for hanging in there.A lot of the trouble with our country is that people constantly moan and believe the media doom and gloom stories.Cheer up its not all bad!

[NB Alnwick]

For colonial wealth read Colonial theft.

I admire your harping on about buying British the problem is we no longer manufacture the things we need. What TV do you have? What computer do you have? In the real world buying British is just impossible.

 

Whatever our ancestors did, and whatever their motives (and I don't believe they were all dishonest) - we once enjoyed the privilege of national wealth. That went with the Seconf World War but we still spend as if it still existed. We can no longer afford to live with an imbalance of trade - if we need imported goods like computers and TVs (ours was made in Wales) then we need to export goods that we make and we are not as bad at that as some people seem to think.

 

The argument that people must buy foreign goods because that is all they can afford doesn't really hold - quite simply we cannot afford to lose more jobs and every time we buy more imported than home produced goods we are putting British workers out of work. I don' t want to do that and I would rather go without. If we continue to lose jobs in this country, how can we afford to keep doling out cash to those unfortunate enough to be unemployed - the money won't come from Workers in China and India!

 

Recently, I found myself struggling to find British made paintbrushes - I succeeded and bought them from a small independent hardware shop - and guess what? They were cheaper than the imported products being offered by the large DIY chains . . .

 

All we really need to live is food, clothing and fuel - much of the latter is imported but there are adequate supplies of good British food and clothing - it is possible to buy British and revive our troubled economy . . .

[Guest]

You'll be hard pushed to find much made in Britain any more, our manufacturing industry has been decimated and will probably never recover as the far east countries now seem to have it progressed to a point where the goods they are supplying are now of some quality and we'll never be able to compete again. Also most of the far East workers are actually quite well paid in relation to their individual countries overall wealth but of course paid a lot less in financial terms than is required to subsist in this country.

 

You can also be pretty sure that even if you buy anything "British" especially electrical items that the majority of it's components are actually made in China and the far east, that's why it's all so cheap. If it was all made in Britain a large proportion of us wouldn't be able to afford it as it would probably be twice the price.

 

China will be the new world superpower, they already are from a financial aspect, so stage 1 accomplished.

A speaker once stood up at a meeting I attended, and predicted that one day China will be writing off our (and other European) debts, as the West has done for other countries. I think he may have a point.

[LEO]

Do we actually make anything much more in this country, beyond pre-pack sandwiches and ready meals ?

 

Yes we do. Our family has a Jack - Empire made - it has been used to celebrate VE day, VJ day, Dad's homecoming, the Coronation, Royal Weddings and is now looking a bit tatty - have just replaced it with a new one made by George Tuthills of Chesham (flagmkers to Queen Victoria).

 

Leo.

 

Perhaps it an indication of the state of the nation but why do some many houses and now buildings fly the Jack upside down - indicating they are in distress?.

Edited May 30, 2012 by LEO

[mrsmelly]

There are many items made here,and there will be more and more over the coming years.Our company has fought for sales against cheaper and inferior products over the recent years.These products,often from China are now increasing in cost and we are reaping the rewards for hanging in there.A lot of the trouble with our country is that people constantly moan and believe the media doom and gloom stories.Cheer up its not all bad!

 

You are right. After packing our sucessful little business in last year the wife and I went cruising for a year ( whilst still alive ) we then found ourselves needing work and got a mooring in Yorkshire and found it to be bankrupt and no work so started the engine and trundles off to Nottingham. We are both working again quite quickly after arriving here at age s 56 and 59 it helps greatly living on a boat rather than tied to a pile of rubble but yoiu have to get into gear and find work. The local nottingham paper last night ran a front page article stating that many positions in the area cannot be filled due to workforce shortages !!! You have to remember that when you are unemployed you are not an unemployed Engineer/ Carpenter/Solicitor/Teacher etc etc you are simply Unemployed and need to get whatever is available that is real life. It is always easier to get another job when you already have one.

 

Tim

 

Blimey is that the time......got to go to work.

Edited May 30, 2012 by mrsmelly

[cotswoldsman]

Whatever our ancestors did, and whatever their motives (and I don't believe they were all dishonest) - we once enjoyed the privilege of national wealth. That went with the Seconf World War but we still spend as if it still existed. We can no longer afford to live with an imbalance of trade - if we need imported goods like computers and TVs (ours was made in Wales) then we need to export goods that we make and we are not as bad at that as some people seem to think.

 

The argument that people must buy foreign goods because that is all they can afford doesn't really hold - quite simply we cannot afford to lose more jobs and every time we buy more imported than home produced goods we are putting British workers out of work. I don' t want to do that and I would rather go without. If we continue to lose jobs in this country, how can we afford to keep doling out cash to those unfortunate enough to be unemployed - the money won't come from Workers in China and India!

 

Recently, I found myself struggling to find British made paintbrushes - I succeeded and bought them from a small independent hardware shop - and guess what? They were cheaper than the imported products being offered by the large DIY chains . . .

 

All we really need to live is food, clothing and fuel - much of the latter is imported but there are adequate supplies of good British food and clothing - it is possible to buy British and revive our troubled economy . . .

 

i think you will find your TV was made abroad and assembled in Wales. The argument that we must not buy imported good because they are cheaper does hold if you have very little money. I am about to buy my Daughter a new camera any ideas on what British Camera I should buy? When out today I will as usual buy some Oranges where can I get the British Grown ones?

[Guest]

You are right. After packing our sucessful little business in last year the wife and I went cruising for a year ( whilst still alive ) we then found ourselves needing work and got a mooring in Yorkshire and found it to be bankrupt and no work so started the engine and trundles off to Nottingham. We are both working again quite quickly after arriving here at age s 56 and 59 it helps greatly living on a boat rather than tied to a pile of rubble but yoiu have to get into gear and find work. The local nottingham paper last night ran a front page article stating that many positions in the area cannot be filled due to workforce shortages !!! You have to remember that when you are unemployed you are not an unemployed Engineer/ Carpenter/Solicitor/Teacher etc etc you are simply Unemployed and need to get whatever is available that is real life. It is always easier to get another job when you already have one.

 

Tim

 

Blimey is that the time......got to go to work.

A lot of what you say is true, Tim, and I know in my own trade that foreign workers were often brought in to fill the shortfall. But once again this smacks of lack of investment by our own. Minimum (if any) apprentice training for years im my trade; I assume others have been the same? Little wonder some vacancies can't be filled. Sorry but we have been a "bodge it and scarper" nation for too long. We reap what we sow. (apologies for the clichés.)

[carlt]

That went with the Seconf World War but we still spend as if it still existed.

Not true, Graham, the post-war period was one of the wealthiest periods of our history, depending on how you measure it.

 

You seem to measure wealth by what we take from others whereas I see wealth in what we have given back.

 

Between 1947 and 1975 we saw a sustained budget surplus, unlike the last 33 years of unbroken budget deficit, and this was a period of time when we relinquished our grip on the "colonies", built a health service that provided universal care, developed a Welfare system that, for the first time, looked after the most vulnerable in our society and created a free and fair education system.

 

Nowadays we impose our military strength on other countries, the NHS is a shambles, the poor are blamed for the nation's woes and the education system is producing a nation of meejah studies experts.

 

We have regressed back to the worst of the Victorian standards without any colonies to steal from.

[Guest]

i think you will find your TV was made abroad and assembled in Wales. The argument that we must not buy imported good because they are cheaper does hold if you have very little money. I am about to buy my Daughter a new camera any ideas on what British Camera I should buy? When out today I will as usual buy some Oranges where can I get the British Grown ones?

Got a nice Box Brownie in the loft... and a 1934 German Voigtlander too, the property of my late grandfather, so buying foreign goods isn't that new.

 

Even when I worked in industry as a kid, we were using foreign machinery and components in a very British product. We will never return to the Norman Vaughn type "I'm backing Britain" type world, but what we must fight for in this global economy is a fair balance of trade.

 

Not true, Graham, the post-war period was one of the wealthiest periods of our history, depending on how you measure it.

 

You seem to measure wealth by what we take from others whereas I see wealth in what we have given back.

 

Between 1947 and 1975 we saw a sustained budget surplus, unlike the last 33 years of unbroken budget deficit, and this was a period of time when we relinquished our grip on the "colonies", built a health service that provided universal care, developed a Welfare system that, for the first time, looked after the most vulnerable in our society and created a free and fair education system.

 

Nowadays we impose our military strength on other countries, the NHS is a shambles, the poor are blamed for the nation's woes and the education system is producing a nation of meejah studies experts.

 

We have regressed back to the worst of the Victorian standards without any colonies to steal from.

Very eloquently put, if I may say so.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Guest

[Boat&Bikes]

i think you will find your TV was made abroad and assembled in Wales. The argument that we must not buy imported good because they are cheaper does hold if you have very little money. I am about to buy my Daughter a new camera any ideas on what British Camera I should buy? When out today I will as usual buy some Oranges where can I get the British Grown ones?

 

 

Buy apples instead?

 

Ian.

[Grace and Favour]

40 years ago I would have written that same paragraph almost word for word. 40 years on, we are much more of a global economy playing under a very different set of rules. The world is a much smaller place today, and will shrink even more. We need to think very differently today in order to survive in this global economy. I don't particularly like the idea, but have learned to accept it. It is up to our powers that be to represent us within this global economy.

 

Hoorah! - - Some common sense

 

 

Like many peeps, I've had highs and lows in my working life, the highs being enjoyable, the lows being numbingly depressive, but it's one's own spirit of determination that is likely to be the decisive factor in how one emerges from it all.

 

Though I'm now retired (theoretically at least) so have not to compete in the job market, I'm amazed at some of the frequently uttered beliefs regarding the plight of the UK worker losing out to competition (more often than not it's Jonny Furriner)

 

At it's simplest level it's because those workers are prepared / are able to work for lower rates of pay. It may well be as a result of their countries status as an emerging manufacturing state, or as a result of their particularly high levels of unemployed manpower, (indeed - it may be down to a multitude of causes) but the bottom line is that they 'produce' products cheaper - - and so the World's population buy from them, (including the UK)

It is a cyclical thing, of course. Empires go as they came, whether they be political, or commercial, history has illustrated that, and, to be honest, the UK has had its days of glory and over-balance of wealth, so we are now in decline.

 

I suggest that (one of) the eventual outcomes of all the 'globalisation' is that eventually, (though not in my lifetime) there will likely be an equalisation, across most countries, of labour rates, standards of living, wealth and poverty, with those incredibly few genuinely altruistic people work for the good of others, but the overwhelming majority take as much as they can, for as little effort as possible.

 

'Man' (& woman - for the sake of political correctness) is the most self centred, greedy, and fundamentally lazy animal on the planet - and so many, whether they be at one end of the wealth spectrum or the other, will deride others more/less fortunate.

 

The bottom line is that 'Man' (& woman etc) is not a nice animal, and as a species, get what we deserve.

[Athy]

That's a fair point, and until recently it was possible to both buy a 'foreign' product but made by British workers eg Sanyo/Sony/Panasonic, but nowadays that opportunity is lessening year on year as even these guys move production back to the far east/eastern Europe.

 

The only exception to that at the moment seems to be with foreign owned UK based car manufacture with Nissan and Jaguar/Land Rover on the ascendency.

 

(I won't mention that we have just bought a FIAT 500 which is made in Poland.... )

Yes, we said "Ta ta" to our UK-owned car industry some time ago. Other than the specialised Morgan and some racing cars, I can't think of another make which is both British-owned and British-manufactured.

I was thinking, for example, of radios. I looked at some in an electrical shop recently. The Roberts models are still British-made and have a beautiful tone (I have two of them at home) but they are literally about twice the price of brands which are made (I assume) in Japan or in other Asian countries.

Cotswoldman, I don't think that oranges are a valid example, as they have always been imported; we were talking about products which were once British but which no longer are. As for cameras, don't know if there are any made in Britain. I grew up thinking that Kodak were British but apparently they are an American company.

[Guest]

Buy apples instead?

 

Ian.

Which have possibly done more unnecessary UK miles in a supermarket truck than the oranges from abroad (unless you are lucky enough to still be able to buy local produce of course.). But that is another argument for another day

[KirraMisha]

My guess is I must have had a letter but it was probably very small and not directly pointed out. if it were me I'd say, "Look this letter is important and you must come on this different date than normal." I know I'm absent minded but today i saw two other people who were stood there clueless as to what this appointment was. One guy just stormed out and said "Stuff it!" Looked to me like a regular working guy not a layabout.

It is at least encouraging the staff looked a bit apprehensive when I came back with an official letter. They seemed slightly apologetic. Thing is now I decided no way will I back down. I think it's wrong and want the whole thing looking into.

 

 

 

I'm not claiming to be perfect. Knowing my absent mindedness, I got mixed up somehow. However, surely there is intention and mistake. Surely if someone couldn't be bothered to turn up that's clear cut. Otherwise mistakes do happen and this appointment was a complete change of circumstance. And many more people have made the exact same blunder.

I won't be taking a stand on being a victim. My stand is based on how these rules are interpreted.

The problem is when you post about stuff like this you open yourself up to a lot of judgement.

Your human we all make mistakes and fair play to you for getting up and making the effort to find work.

The system is quick enough to take your taxes when you do work without any anal red tape what so ever.

I use to work in a ''standards investigation role''and go round all the different initiatives to get people back into work posing as an unemployed person and in colleges as a mature student.

Most of the time the staff were horrible angry people who thought they could bend you over a barrel because they had conrol over you and your claim.

I was really suprised how bad other humans could treat other humans and how they allow a system brainwash them against other humans over money.

Youhear it all the time ''oh we will just tax this person or that person more'' take take take its all the system does.

You can almost smell the same angry notions in some of the replies you have recieved on here because you made a mistake,jeez!

Keep your chin up man and try to stay positive.

All the best.

[carlt]

The Roberts models are still British-made and have a beautiful tone (I have two of them at home) but they are literally about twice the price of brands which are made (I assume) in Japan or in other Asian countries.

The Roberts is a beautifully made britsh wooden box full of foreign components.

[Guest]

Yes, we said "Ta ta" to our UK-owned car industry some time ago. Other than the specialised Morgan and some racing cars, I can't think of another make which is both British-owned and British-manufactured.

I was thinking, for example, of radios. I looked at some in an electrical shop recently. The Roberts models are still British-made and have a beautiful tone (I have two of them at home) but they are literally about twice the price of brands which are made (I assume) in Japan or in other Asian countries.

Cotswoldman, I don't think that oranges are a valid example, as they have always been imported; we were talking about products which were once British but which no longer are. As for cameras, don't know if there are any made in Britain. I grew up thinking that Kodak were British but apparently they are an American company.

Exacerly, and true of many products. We have assumed in the past that household names were British, when many of them weren't. I used to think Ford were a British company, and was quite shocked to learn that they were american. Should have known better at 50.

 

Would Reliant have been the last all British produced car? I know they made the engine etc in house, as well as the body/chassis. Perhaps the wiper blades or something were of foreign manufacture, but I think they were largely made from components produced in Britain?

Edited May 30, 2012 by Guest