The Admiral Nelson, Braunston

[Geoffrey Hammond]

Sad news.

 

It appears that this well known pub is about to close - again.

 

I spoke to the landlord this evening and was told that it would close down on either Monday or Tuesday.

 

I do hope that this not the end for the Admiral Nelson - pubs on flights of locks can be very special.

[benfordboy]

Its a shame

 

Every time we've stopped for a quickie on route thru the locks we've always been welcomed (Even tho we are a Splitter! )

 

I wonder if the location in the middle of the flight means that most boaty folk dont stop cause they want to finish the flight - I also wonder how difficult it is to reach by road ? I've had some great fishing above Braunstone tunnel by boat but even tho there seems to be a footpath nearby have never found it by road...

 

With a lot of our locals shutting , if nobody stops at the Nelson what chance has it got ?

[tillergirl]

is this a winter/summer thing with this pub? I seem to recall something similar with the same pub last year

[Midnight Rider]

We called in, 3 years ago I think. A new guy had just taken over, nice bloke but he had no experience of the trade.

 

The credit card logos were on the door but they were only accepting cash. Fair enough, we had cash. ordered our meals --- 'sorry, we havn't got that'. Tried again --- 'sorry, we have run out of that'

 

So it was a case of 'tell us what you have got & we will choose'. In the end we were fed, had a bit of a laugh with the landlord about it & he gave us a free pudding in return.

 

I think that if the likes of the Plough at Huddlesford, which is close to Lichfield & had a good reputation for food, has gone to the wall, then the likes of the Admiral are going to have a hard time to make a profit.

[Terence]

I think one of the major problems the Nelson has is The Boathouse (or should I say the Milhouse?) The Boathouse is doing so well with meals etc that the Nelson couldn't compete on price. The next folk to take the Nelson on really need to think about what they are getting into and how they can draw business away from the Boathouse.

 

It's a nice pub on a lovely part of the canal but these days that does't win you the prize. It's got to somehow get out of the Half Nelson hold and once again become the Full Nelson.

 

Terence

[matty40s]

it's off the main road, and then off a side road in the village.

The Canal trade isn't enough to keep a pub going inthis location in the winter months,especially with the restrictions and stoppages we have had this year.

The AN has closed to my knowledge, the last 4 winters and re-opened in the spring for Easter. This year seems to be earlier, maybe business sense has come first.

Expect it to open next year, before Easter.....perhaps a sad sign of todays austerity, not particularly of bad management.

[carlt]

The pub needs to be freehold instead of a pubco property, squeezing yet another poor mug with a dream, until they go under.

[Donald Gilchrist]

I've got no problem with a pub shutting over winter,if it means it keeps going. Lived in a village where the pub only opand in the evening in summer and the odd weekend in winter.(neer Christmass) Nobody minded because it was that or it shut for good. If I remember the landlord had a job in Bath which kept the place going.

[The Anonymous Bard]

That's a real shame for The Admiral Nelson once again, never a sadder sight than when we had walked up from the marina last year only to see it boarded up once again.

 

It's difficult to see how anyone is going to make a viable business out of it under the current climate but hope somebody eventually does.

[Guest]

That's a real shame for The Admiral Nelson once again, never a sadder sight than when we had walked up from the marina last year only to see it boarded up once again.

 

It's difficult to see how anyone is going to make a viable business out of it under the current climate but hope somebody eventually does.

 

I don't know the pub in question but it sounds to me as if it is too heavily dependant on boaters for trade due to it's location.

 

Whereas the Boathouse will I guess pick up passing trade from the main road plus boaters and is perhaps catering to a different market. The other pubs actually in the village will I reckon rely on locals and more footfall customers.

 

ETA - from memory last time we were in the Boathouse they were doing some offer along the lines of 'Two meals for a tenner' - just how do you compete with that?

Edited October 29, 2011 by MJG

[Kristian]

Give it time it will reopen, yet again......................

[tillergirl]

At least when its closed it remains relatively unscathed unlike the The Barge at Keadby which was being used for all manner of unsavoury things............

[the grinch]

The pub needs to be freehold instead of a pubco property, squeezing yet another poor mug with a dream, until they go under.

 

 

you have hit the nail fairly and squarely they are all leeches Punch, Enterprise etc give the landlord NO Support as I am only too well aware! we got out near on 3 years ago still trying to pay off the debt incurred by trying to keep afloat.

[Guest]

you have hit the nail fairly and squarely they are all leeches Punch, Enterprise etc give the landlord NO Support as I am only too well aware! we got out near on 3 years ago still trying to pay off the debt incurred by trying to keep afloat.

 

I don't understand the business model of some of these group outfits at all.

 

Just exactly what is the incentive for screwing your tenant publicans for every penny and forcing the pub's demise, and a resulting loss of income to the group when surely if they operated with a more realistic scale of charges and rents, and less restrictive supply chain rules then the pub stays open and the income continues to come in.

 

You also avoid the additional problem of an unoccupied building to care for and all that entails.

 

The directors of these companies must be complete plonkers....and the finance directors, well ?

 

When competing with the likes of Weatherspoons, who seem to be weathering the storm they really need to up their game.

[scrumpylurcher]

It is slightly confusing, the message is that it is closing down, no confirmation of whether or not it will re open in the spring. But they are also advertising their Folk Club for Tuesday 29th Nov. that being the case I am not sure exactly when it might close down this year.

[PeterScott]

At least when its closed it remains relatively unscathed unlike the The Barge at Keadby which was being used for all manner of unsavoury things............

I suppose some would say it was used for unsavoury things even when it was open :-)

[The Anonymous Bard]

The directors of these companies must be complete plonkers....and the finance directors, well ?

 

 

Just about sums it up I reckon.

 

Not sure if there is some underlying reason why said people behave like this and can use a loss making part of their business to their overall tax advantage although ultimately I think it comes down to the chain screwing the Manager in search of "group performance".

 

It's a very cynical business if that's how the chains are operating if putting personal ruin before their profits is the game that they are playing.

 

I wonder if The Admiral Nelson would be a profit making business in a private landlord's hands if it were not for the charges that they incur as Managers?

[twbm]

When competing with the likes of Weatherspoons, who seem to be weathering the storm they really need to up their game.

 

You're not comparing eggs with eggs: Try and find a 'Spoons that's not on a busy High Street location. They are all in town centres and thrive by bulk beer purchase allowing them to significantly undercut independents, tied houses even more so. We have one right across the road from our bar, so trust me this is from first hand experience.

 

Country pubs are, if the truth be told, suffering because after all these years the drink driving laws have finally bitten and people just won't travel to them any more. Yes they can get a good reputation for food but there's only so many diners in any given area and the truth is a lot of people would rather put up with mass produced reheated food at a pub on a main road than pay a quid more for home made in a pretty but slightly difficult to get to location.

 

I spoke to the guys at the Nelson when they first opened and then a few months later: Initially they were aware of the history of the place but were cautiously optimistic that the deal they had with the brewery would allow them the leeway to rebuild trade from scratch. On my next visit, they told me that yes, trade had picked up, but the brewery had noted the increase in beer sales and was talking of renaging on their agreement and putting the rent up early to a level the guys considered unstainable. I'm guessing that's what's happended.

 

Much as we'd all like to see the Nelson thrive, I would prefer that prospective tenants find these threads in an internet search and give it a wide berth. If enough pubs stay empty long enough then maybe, just maybe, the breweries will read a newspaper and start to offer contracts that reflect the current state of the trade and the economy.

 

 

Just exactly what is the incentive for screwing your tenant publicans for every penny and forcing the pub's demise, and a resulting loss of income to the group when surely if they operated with a more realistic scale of charges and rents, and less restrictive supply chain rules then the pub stays open and the income continues to come in.

 

You also avoid the additional problem of an unoccupied building to care for and all that entails.

 

The directors of these companies must be complete plonkers....and the finance directors, well ?

 

 

If it's an urban site, repeated failures as a pub make change of use easier so they can convert into flats or sell the land.

[AJLintern]

There is (was) a pub in Abingdon in a prime Thames side location on the main bridge. It had a bit of a poor reputation, but always seemed busy due to the location. The trouble was the tenants just couldn't keep it going financially because the landlord charged such extortionate rents, so they had to close. So now he's getting no rent and the town is denied a potentially great riverside pub! What is wrong with these people?!

[ditchcrawler]

The pub needs to be freehold instead of a pubco property, squeezing yet another poor mug with a dream, until they go under.

Spot on

[Guest]

You're not comparing eggs with eggs:

 

I appreciate that - but none of your post addresses the fundamental question of why these pubs are effectively allowed to fail...

 

If it's an urban site, repeated failures as a pub make change of use easier so they can convert into flats or sell the land.

 

Not applicable in the case of the Admiral Nelson though.

[Slim]

I don't understand the business model of some of these group outfits at all.

 

Just exactly what is the incentive for screwing your tenant publicans for every penny and forcing the pub's demise, and a resulting loss of income to the group when surely if they operated with a more realistic scale of charges and rents, and less restrictive supply chain rules then the pub stays open and the income continues to come in.

 

You also avoid the additional problem of an unoccupied building to care for and all that entails.

 

The directors of these companies must be complete plonkers....and the finance directors, well ?

 

When competing with the likes of Weatherspoons, who seem to be weathering the storm they really need to up their game.

 

Suspect the answer is simple (if a great shame) Most pubs that close down are soon knocked down and replaced by flats. The value of the site exceeds any profits the companies might make over a number of years. Any idea of taking the long term view simply doesn't exist. After all the directors have to justify their 'reasonable salary increases'

 

 

 

Frank

[Chertsey]

Suspect the answer is simple (if a great shame) Most pubs that close down are soon knocked down and replaced by flats. The value of the site exceeds any profits the companies might make over a number of years. Any idea of taking the long term view simply doesn't exist. After all the directors have to justify their 'reasonable salary increases'

 

 

 

Frank

One possible campaign would be to lobby the local authority to make it clear that they would not approve an application for change of use of the site. Although the economic climate for building flats is not so good at the moment anyway.

 

It is a shame that so little (none?) of the original or even reasonably historic interior remains. For such an iconic pub, it is disappointingly lacking in atmosphere. Perhaps an animatronic Leslie Morton holding court and counting out the wages would bring in trade.

Oh, that's just me, is it.

[carlt]

I don't understand the business model of some of these group outfits at all.

 

Just exactly what is the incentive for screwing your tenant publicans for every penny and forcing the pub's demise, and a resulting loss of income to the group when surely if they operated with a more realistic scale of charges and rents, and less restrictive supply chain rules then the pub stays open and the income continues to come in.

Because the money they make is not in the beer and food sold (though even that is sold to the tenant at an extortionate rate) but the rent and the repeated sale of the lease.

 

It is more like a pyramid scheme, where there is practically no product, and the money is made at the top, by selling the scheme to the mugs at the bottom.

[Guest]

Because the money they make is not in the beer and food sold (though even that is sold to the tenant at an extortionate rate) but the rent and the repeated sale of the lease.

 

It is more like a pyramid scheme, where there is practically no product, and the money is made at the top, by selling the scheme to the mugs at the bottom.

 

Carl - I sort of understand how it works - I just do not get why, how far up the top does it get before somebody goes...

 

hang on a minute....WTF is going on here?