Chip fat fuel

[BlueStringPudding]

Okay - sarky title, I admit. But seriously, I keep seeing on the tele stories about chippies recycling their cooking oil (Gloucester, ish somewhere recently, a student project?) for use in cars as fuel. Can the same be done for canal boats, do you reckon? And what would it mean for the engine in terms of amendments?

 

Is it possible and if so why is High's Fish Fight not taxing what our local fish n chip merchant is churning out after hours? Because if Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall doesn't tax it, HMRC will.

 

Can it really work as a boat fuel?

[Ally]

I know of people using it for string and cellotape planes!

.maybe needs to be let down with used turps perhaps? Good recycling that way!

[station tug]

Okay - sarky title, I admit. But seriously, I keep seeing on the tele stories about chippies recycling their cooking oil (Gloucester, ish somewhere recently, a student project?) for use in cars as fuel. Can the same be done for canal boats, do you reckon? And what would it mean for the engine in terms of amendments?

 

Is it possible and if so why is High's Fish Fight not taxing what our local fish n chip merchant is churning out after hours? Because if Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall doesn't tax it, HMRC will.

 

Can it really work as a boat fuel?

 

as long as you fit a pre heater.possibly solar chip fat will work great..i sure if you wanted to travel at nite you could use an inverter to pre heat...be great to see a trad blowing chip fat smoke rings!!!!

[dove]

A friend of mine runs his boat on used oil, works a treat, tried some in our 4L2, stinks though!

 

It not just old oil, youn have to add chemicls to it and a lot of filtering.

 

Andrew

[Ex- Member]

Okay - sarky title, I admit. But seriously, I keep seeing on the tele stories about chippies recycling their cooking oil (Gloucester, ish somewhere recently, a student project?) for use in cars as fuel. Can the same be done for canal boats, do you reckon? And what would it mean for the engine in terms of amendments?

 

Is it possible and if so why is High's Fish Fight not taxing what our local fish n chip merchant is churning out after hours? Because if Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall doesn't tax it, HMRC will.

 

Can it really work as a boat fuel?

 

Chip fat is refined daily for use in diesel engines usually vans and trucks. We have a local company who refine and distribute locally. It can be used in diesel boat engines with some exceptions sometimes depending on injector pump design.

 

Once refined it is subject to taxes, but still ends up cheaper than white diesel.

 

Private users can use so much per year tax free. Some refine it them selves in their garages basically filtering it and adding turpentine to thin it. Some engines need slight adapting some don't.

 

Veg oil from supermarkets can be put direct in to some fuel tanks also, that's why it's now so expensive.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Julynian

[Ally]

I wonder if the chippy would offer a free supper in return for taking away their waste?

[Ex- Member]

I wonder if the chippy would offer a free supper in return for taking away their waste?

 

 

 

Many chip shops and Chinese takeaways are paid for the oil especially since the price of oil rose so high, some get free fuel, like for every 5 litres of waste they get a litre of bio diesel. If you're lucky enough to find one willing to give it away all the better.

 

 

[nbfiresprite]

Okay - sarky title, I admit. But seriously, I keep seeing on the tele stories about chippies recycling their cooking oil (Gloucester, ish somewhere recently, a student project?) for use in cars as fuel. Can the same be done for canal boats, do you reckon? And what would it mean for the engine in terms of amendments?

 

Is it possible and if so why is High's Fish Fight not taxing what our local fish n chip merchant is churning out after hours? Because if Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall doesn't tax it, HMRC will.

 

Can it really work as a boat fuel?

 

I known for a fact that `Hugh` runs his Land Drover on the waste oil from his cafe. As does Col Strawbridge down in

deepest Cornwall. The route of Cambridge` busway of death (all roadkill trapped and than flatten) stinks of three day old

take aways from the chip fat used by the buses.

 

Firesprite

 

On the Job

Edited September 2, 2011 by nbfiresprite

[BlueStringPudding]

A friend of mine runs his boat on used oil, works a treat, tried some in our 4L2, stinks though!

 

It not just old oil, youn have to add chemicls to it and a lot of filtering.

 

Andrew

 

So what chemicals go on it? Are they more or less expensive that red diesel, for example?

[Athy]

I heard of someone who tried it with disastrous results: it fried his engine.

[by'eck]

Okay - sarky title, I admit. But seriously, I keep seeing on the tele stories about chippies recycling their cooking oil (Gloucester, ish somewhere recently, a student project?) for use in cars as fuel. Can the same be done for canal boats, do you reckon? And what would it mean for the engine in terms of amendments?

 

Is it possible and if so why is High's Fish Fight not taxing what our local fish n chip merchant is churning out after hours? Because if Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall doesn't tax it, HMRC will.

 

Can it really work as a boat fuel?

 

Here one running on waste oil

 

 

It uses a large filter (near the tank on the back wall), a heating jacket (on the fuel filter), and a high pressure pump on the end of the engine.

[Biggles]

I have made 10's of thousans of litres of proper biodiesel in the past.

 

First mixing chip oil with terps or White sprit is illegal for road use and probably for boats.

 

Most people that use chip oil will filter it themselves and then either mix it with diesel to thin ot or have a heating arrangement to thin the oil.

 

Yes it works but nest results are in old engines such as land rovers etc. Anything with a bosh rotary or online pump will probably be fine. Any other pump will not survive long. And a total no no in a common rail engine.

 

If you could get FREE chip oil these days you would be doing very well or it will be sh*te. You then need to filter it and separate the wat which needs somewhere to do this, and finally it is a very messy job. You will no matter how much try not to get spillages.

 

I haven't made any for a good few years now but here is probably the best forum in the country for this

 

My link

 

I am Biggles there too.

 

In a nut shell though unless you are really determined to do this in a really large scale don't bother.

[Bob18]

There are two ways of using old cooking oil.

First (cheapest) - Filter out all the muck and water and tip in the tank. You need to use the right sort of filters and keep them clean. You obviously have to get rid of the rather gooey, smelly waste, please don't dump it either the drains or the cut.

Second (expensive) - This is the chemical process. Its called esterification, and is not for the faint hearted. First filter it as above, then add caustic soda and methanol, then clean it up again. You end up with a lot of very unpleasant chemical waste to get rid of which really must NEVER go near either the drains or the cut.

 

I'd go for the first, but to run it all year you either have to "cut" it with normal diesel in the winter, and how much ordinary diesel you needs depends on how cold it is. The real downside is the smell, but this can be managed by choosing your source to suit your taste buds

[Dominic M]

[vasectomy]I have made 10's of thousans of litres of proper biodiesel in the past.[/vasectomy]

I won't ask if it's "FAME free" but given how some people seem to think that a small amount of bio diesel in red is the beginning of The Apocalypse, I find this very funny.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Dominic M

[Ally]

our local farm based pilots (string and cellotape brigade) have our used turps off us for mixing with oil from the local indian........and interesting smell!

....2 planes recently crashed........hummmmmmmmmm............

Edited September 2, 2011 by Ally

[Tony Brooks]

So what chemicals go on it? Are they more or less expensive that red diesel, for example?

 

If you want to turn it into bio-diesel you need to clean/filter it and then add an alkaline (can't remember which one but its not caustic soda). It is then heated and kept at a constant heat for the chemical process the take place. Next syphon the glycerin away from the fuel and find a way of disposing of it. Next wash the fuel to remove the residue of the alkaline, let it stand and syphon the fuel off the water. This would run all but any engine abut the engine manufacturer may say not, but that is probably more to do with emissions than fact.

 

If you simply filter the oil to a good standard and fix up a pre-heat system plus a change over system on the engine then the more traditional engines will normally run on such fuels but they would usually start on ordinary diesel and also run on diesel for a while before shutdown so when cold the system is full of ordinary diesel. I know the DP seres of injector pumps as used on BMCs may well seize on this fuel because it is more viscose and thus less able to lubricate small clearances. Such pumps can be modified to at a cost to run on such fuel.

 

In the first case its a lot of messing about and in the second there is some messing about but then there is the cost of extra engine equipment.

 

Which ever route you take there is the question of the fuels ability to break down, given the "right" conditions, over comparatively short time scales.

[JDR]

I looked into doing this properly a few years ago and ran into a few problems.

The first was the purchase and storage of Methanol in quantities required

The second was getting hold of used oil in quantity - all chippies etc require a licence to dispose of oil.

 

Experiments with a Peugot diesel showed cutting with 5% bio-unleaded was successful (obviously never used on UK highways).

Hard to believe how well an engine can run on veg oil until you experience it. Diesel himself designed the engine with non fossil fuel in mind so no surprise really.

For car use a seperate tank with white with to preheat the fuel system before switching to bio/filtered/whatever seemed the best way to go.

 

Last time I checked the HMRC side it was only bio-diesel manufactured to a certain standard that qualified for 20ppl reduction in duty. Filtered oil etc counted as a fuel substitute.

[cheshire~rose]

I know someone who used cooking oil in a Peugeout car - straight into the tank but mixed with some regular diesel. It worked and ran for several months until the deisel pump went - at great expense - it appears that using the stuff neat in modern cars has that effect.

I know many older engines are far more tolerant of what type of fuel they run on and so the historic engine brigade would probably not hesitate to tip some into the tank if offered and it is unlikely any damage to the engines would be done but I think it best to source one of the companies that recycle the old oil for use in vans etc if you want to use it is anything wih an engine that is more fickle because thay will have done the filtering and added the bits required to make it more palatable to your engine

[Laurie Booth]

Please check with your engine manufacturer before using old oil Etc.

[Bob18]

There is a tax free allowance for home brew bio-diesel, provided it is only for you own use. I think its something like 2500 litres per year, but only if you "brew it and use it" yourself.

A big problem, that others have identified, is getting hold of a reliable source as most "chippies" are tied into one of the major oil recyclers, which is to their advantage, these guys sort out all the paperwork for the chippy, who just carries on frying as usual...

[larkshall]

The chemical issues for purification of waste veg oil are not without hazards. The mixing of the chemicals is critical, and the amount of waste oil is also critical. There have been many documented cases of the fuel produced been too acidic(that might be alkaline), and it destroys seals and pumps in short order. The resultant fuel should never be used in a cat equipped diesel engine, or for that matter any diesel engine using an adblue equipped exhaust.

 

As others have said best used on old engines. I think the waste disposal is the worst aspect of this process.

[n.b.Goldie]

As bio-diesel is pure FAME and has limited lubrication properties for pumps and injectors, perhaps the tip mentioned in a different topic of adding two-stroke oil at a ratio (IIRC) of 200:1 would alleviate that particular issue.

 

 

I do agree however that it is vital with 'homebrew' to get the titration test right to avoid overly alkali/acid fuel. IIRC it is the alkali which does most damage to seals etc. Full intructions are easily available via our good friend Google.

 

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[BlueStringPudding]

So theire IS a tax allowance!?!? Excellent. No 60/40 split then!?

[n.b.Goldie]

So theire IS a tax allowance!?!? Excellent. No 60/40 split then!?

 

 

You may brew up to 2500lts per annum without incurring any tax liability.

 

 

You may not sell it or use it for any commercial purpose.

 

 

 

Full details are available on HMRC website.

 

 

 

Good luck

 

Ditchdabbler

[Bob18]

I quite agree with almost everything Ditchdbaler says, the only (minor) error is that its not any residual alkali that wrecks the seals its any residual methanol, and the esterified veg oil itself. Residual alkali will go for any aluminium bits in the system first, then the copper/brass, then the steel...

And of course, with changes in the law, we are now getting a few percent of "properly brewed" bio-diesel when we buy new diesel - the initial proposed level was far higher, but all the engine manufacturers shouted at once to say "No, if you do that, we'll be sending you the bills for all the engines you wreck"