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Never ending arguments about moorings

Joshua

By Joshua
in General Boating

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Joshua Community Regular

Joshua

Posted
Posted

I am amazed that I am even thinking of making this post, I hope it will be a valuable contribution, but on the other hand, it might equally be the horrible consequence of consuming too much wine.

I can’t, but probably should, stop now.

 

The popcorn thing is all very amusing but being serious for a minute, I came to the conclusion some time ago that these never-ending arguments are more often an inevitable and un-resolvable consequence of participants arguing about different issues rather than from different sides of a single issue and that’s why they keep regurgitating.

 

With a view to trying to make sense of the ‘popcorn’ thread about mooring abuses and find a simple way for posters to identify where they are ‘coming from’, I had a go at trying to simplify the issues (all-be-it after drinking a bottle of wine).

 

The first thing that popped into my mind (no pun intended) was a division between:

 

[1] How one owns and regulates ones ownership of a boat.

 

[2] How one uses the inland waterways.

 

Take issue [1] first, I can identify just 6 ways of owning a boat:

 

[A] Live aboard with legal ‘Residential Mooring’

Live aboard with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[C] Live aboard with ‘No Mooring’

[D] Continuous Cruiser

[E] Leisure owner with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[F] Leisure owner with ‘No Mooring’

 

I can identify (from what I read on this forum) just 7 different points of view.

 

[1] No one should live on the waterways but everyone should have and pay for a mooring.

[2] No one should live on the waterways but don’t care whether or not one has a mooring.

[3] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring or CC.

[4] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring.

[5] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type or CC.

[6] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type.

[7] If you can get away with it anything goes.

 

The only possible, (reasonable) combinations of these as I see it are:

 

A3, A4, A5, A6 & A7

B5, B6, & B7

C7

D3,D5 & D7

E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6 & E7

F2 & F7

 

From this ( by observing how few people one pisses off) I conclude that:

 

A’s only annoy those who think no one should live on the waterways.

B’s in addition annoy those who think live-aboards should have a proper legal residential mooring.

D’s in addition annoy those who think that CCing should not be an exception.

E’s can’t lose, they don’t annoy anyone.

F’s are on thin ice.

C’s are in deep trouble.

 

That just leaves the second of the two main issues, namely how one uses the waterways and that surely, doesn’t matter who you are, everyone can abuse visitor moorings, I doubt anyone would argue its OK to do so (except in special, reasonable circumstances) so on this issue at least, everyone is no doubt in agreement?

 

Joshua ( Prospective D3 )

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magpie patrick Veteran II

magpie patrickDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

I am amazed that I am even thinking of making this post, I hope it will be a valuable contribution, but on the other hand, it might equally be the horrible consequence of consuming too much wine.

I can’t, but probably should, stop now.

 

The popcorn thing is all very amusing but being serious for a minute, I came to the conclusion some time ago that these never-ending arguments are more often an inevitable and un-resolvable consequence of participants arguing about different issues rather than from different sides of a single issue and that’s why they keep regurgitating.

 

With a view to trying to make sense of the ‘popcorn’ thread about mooring abuses and find a simple way for posters to identify where they are ‘coming from’, I had a go at trying to simplify the issues (all-be-it after drinking a bottle of wine).

 

The first thing that popped into my mind (no pun intended) was a division between:

 

[1] How one owns and regulates ones ownership of a boat.

 

[2] How one uses the inland waterways.

 

Take issue [1] first, I can identify just 6 ways of owning a boat:

 

[A] Live aboard with legal ‘Residential Mooring’

Live aboard with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[C] Live aboard with ‘No Mooring’

[D] Continuous Cruiser

[E] Leisure owner with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[F] Leisure owner with ‘No Mooring’

 

I can identify (from what I read on this forum) just 7 different points of view.

 

[1] No one should live on the waterways but everyone should have and pay for a mooring.

[2] No one should live on the waterways but don’t care whether or not one has a mooring.

[3] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring or CC.

[4] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring.

[5] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type or CC.

[6] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type.

[7] If you can get away with it anything goes.

 

The only possible, (reasonable) combinations of these as I see it are:

 

A3, A4, A5, A6 & A7

B5, B6, & B7

C7

D3,D5 & D7

E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6 & E7

F2 & F7

 

From this ( by observing how few people one pisses off) I conclude that:

 

A’s only annoy those who think no one should live on the waterways.

B’s in addition annoy those who think live-aboards should have a proper legal residential mooring.

D’s in addition annoy those who think that CCing should not be an exception.

E’s can’t lose, they don’t annoy anyone.

F’s are on thin ice.

C’s are in deep trouble.

 

That just leaves the second of the two main issues, namely how one uses the waterways and that surely, doesn’t matter who you are, everyone can abuse visitor moorings, I doubt anyone would argue its OK to do so (except in special, reasonable circumstances) so on this issue at least, everyone is no doubt in agreement?

 

Joshua ( Prospective D3 )

 

Wrong side of this evening's wine to be totally understanding but I would regard C's as only in deep trouble if they don't "continuously cruise".

 

Simplify,

 

You are okay if you pay for a mooring

 

You are okay if you don't pay for a mooring and "move"

 

You are not okay if you don't pay for a mooring and stay in the same place, the idea of CC is you don't "need" a "place where the boat may lawfully be kept". The idea that you don't need a mooring because you've found a bit of towpath that suits you is the one that gets the most moans.

 

I also found it very odd, many moons ago, that I posted how much stricter other navigation authorities are than BW, and no one complains about those authorities, to be greeted with a chorus of "of course we don't, they're not BW"

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carlt Veteran II

carlt

Posted
Posted
[E] Leisure owner with ‘Leisure Mooring’

 

E’s can’t lose, they don’t annoy anyone.

 

So the "E's" that leave their boat, off their mooring, for months on end, on visitor moorings, because its safer than leaving it in the middle of nowhere, don't annoy anyone?

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Joshua Community Regular

Joshua

Posted
  • Author
Posted

You know what? I think we ought to have just one CCers /continuous moorers mega thread, rather than constantly starting new ones.

 

Then everyone who wants to bicker and moan can do it in one place and leave the rest of us in peace.

 

That’s the trouble with the internet, just a simple, single key to press, please feel free to delete what I just posted, I beg you.

 

Joshua

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mrsmelly Veteran II

mrsmellyDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

I am amazed that I am even thinking of making this post, I hope it will be a valuable contribution, but on the other hand, it might equally be the horrible consequence of consuming too much wine.

I can’t, but probably should, stop now.

 

The popcorn thing is all very amusing but being serious for a minute, I came to the conclusion some time ago that these never-ending arguments are more often an inevitable and un-resolvable consequence of participants arguing about different issues rather than from different sides of a single issue and that’s why they keep regurgitating.

 

With a view to trying to make sense of the ‘popcorn’ thread about mooring abuses and find a simple way for posters to identify where they are ‘coming from’, I had a go at trying to simplify the issues (all-be-it after drinking a bottle of wine).

 

The first thing that popped into my mind (no pun intended) was a division between:

 

[1] How one owns and regulates ones ownership of a boat.

 

[2] How one uses the inland waterways.

 

Take issue [1] first, I can identify just 6 ways of owning a boat:

 

[A] Live aboard with legal ‘Residential Mooring’

Live aboard with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[C] Live aboard with ‘No Mooring’

[D] Continuous Cruiser

[E] Leisure owner with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[F] Leisure owner with ‘No Mooring’

 

I can identify (from what I read on this forum) just 7 different points of view.

 

[1] No one should live on the waterways but everyone should have and pay for a mooring.

[2] No one should live on the waterways but don’t care whether or not one has a mooring.

[3] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring or CC.

[4] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring.

[5] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type or CC.

[6] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type.

[7] If you can get away with it anything goes.

 

The only possible, (reasonable) combinations of these as I see it are:

 

A3, A4, A5, A6 & A7

B5, B6, & B7

C7

D3,D5 & D7

E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6 & E7

F2 & F7

 

From this ( by observing how few people one pisses off) I conclude that:

 

A’s only annoy those who think no one should live on the waterways.

B’s in addition annoy those who think live-aboards should have a proper legal residential mooring.

D’s in addition annoy those who think that CCing should not be an exception.

E’s can’t lose, they don’t annoy anyone.

F’s are on thin ice.

C’s are in deep trouble.

 

That just leaves the second of the two main issues, namely how one uses the waterways and that surely, doesn’t matter who you are, everyone can abuse visitor moorings, I doubt anyone would argue its OK to do so (except in special, reasonable circumstances) so on this issue at least, everyone is no doubt in agreement?

 

Joshua ( Prospective D3 )

:blink:

 

Keep taking the tablets, youll be better soon............

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cotswoldsman Veteran II

cotswoldsman

Posted
Posted

I am amazed that I am even thinking of making this post, I hope it will be a valuable contribution, but on the other hand, it might equally be the horrible consequence of consuming too much wine.

I can't, but probably should, stop now.

 

The popcorn thing is all very amusing but being serious for a minute, I came to the conclusion some time ago that these never-ending arguments are more often an inevitable and un-resolvable consequence of participants arguing about different issues rather than from different sides of a single issue and that's why they keep regurgitating.

 

With a view to trying to make sense of the 'popcorn' thread about mooring abuses and find a simple way for posters to identify where they are 'coming from', I had a go at trying to simplify the issues (all-be-it after drinking a bottle of wine).

 

The first thing that popped into my mind (no pun intended) was a division between:

 

[1] How one owns and regulates ones ownership of a boat.

 

[2] How one uses the inland waterways.

 

Take issue [1] first, I can identify just 6 ways of owning a boat:

 

[A] Live aboard with legal 'Residential Mooring'

Live aboard with 'Leisure Mooring'

[C] Live aboard with 'No Mooring'

[D] Continuous Cruiser

[E] Leisure owner with 'Leisure Mooring'

[F] Leisure owner with 'No Mooring'

 

I can identify (from what I read on this forum) just 7 different points of view.

 

[1] No one should live on the waterways but everyone should have and pay for a mooring.

[2] No one should live on the waterways but don't care whether or not one has a mooring.

[3] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring or CC.

[4] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring.

[5] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type or CC.

[6] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type.

[7] If you can get away with it anything goes.

 

The only possible, (reasonable) combinations of these as I see it are:

 

A3, A4, A5, A6 & A7

B5, B6, & B7

C7

D3,D5 & D7

E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6 & E7

F2 & F7

 

From this ( by observing how few people one pisses off) I conclude that:

 

A's only annoy those who think no one should live on the waterways.

B's in addition annoy those who think live-aboards should have a proper legal residential mooring.

D's in addition annoy those who think that CCing should not be an exception.

E's can't lose, they don't annoy anyone.

F's are on thin ice.

C's are in deep trouble.

 

That just leaves the second of the two main issues, namely how one uses the waterways and that surely, doesn't matter who you are, everyone can abuse visitor moorings, I doubt anyone would argue its OK to do so (except in special, reasonable circumstances) so on this issue at least, everyone is no doubt in agreement?

 

Joshua ( Prospective D3 )

 

Do I neede to drink whatever you are drinking to understand all that????

My head hurts and I have not even had a drink!!!

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Guest User Rising Star

Guest User

Posted
Posted

I think the OP missed out some important baseline assumptions ...

 

when considering the reasons why boat owners keep their boats where they do and when they do ....

 

there are known knowns

unknown knowns

known unknowns

and unknown unknowns

 

(blatantly plagiarised from Mr Rumsfeld)

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fender Rising Star

fender

Posted
Posted

This CC'ing thing is no different from McCarthyism, the Spanish Inquisition, the witch hunts of the Seventeenth century. There are no real villians but the hunt goes on to apprehend and burn at the stake various denominations of boater accused of trifling minor, practices that (when you really think about it) dont cause any harm to anyone, except a bunch of namby pambys who think like the Stasi.

 

CCC'ers (Continuous Cruiser Complainers) are a waste, a complete f**cking bore! Go get a life!

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Speedwheel Influencer

Speedwheel

Posted
Posted

Me too. Thankfully the boating season proper isn't far away. :cheers::captain:

 

The best time of year for boating is just coming to an end. All the idiots will soon be out.

 

When did their start to be a 'boating season' anyway? (When did BW start doing long peroid over winter stoppages and closures?)

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Chris Pink Veteran II

Chris Pink

Posted
Posted

[s

[A] Live aboard with legal ‘Residential Mooring’

Live aboard with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[C] Live aboard with ‘No Mooring’

[D] Continuous Cruiser

[E] Leisure owner with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[F] Leisure owner with ‘No Mooring’

 

I can identify (from what I read on this forum) just 7 different points of view.

 

[1] No one should live on the waterways but everyone should have and pay for a mooring.

[2] No one should live on the waterways but don’t care whether or not one has a mooring.

[3] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring or CC.

[4] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring.

[5] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type or CC.

[6] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type.

[7] If you can get away with it anything goes.

 

The only possible, (reasonable) combinations of these as I see it are:

 

A3, A4, A5, A6 & A7

B5, B6, & B7

C7

D3,D5 & D7

E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6 & E7

F2 & F7

 

From this ( by observing how few people one pisses off) I conclude that:

 

A’s only annoy those who think no one should live on the waterways.

B’s in addition annoy those who think live-aboards should have a proper legal residential mooring.

D’s in addition annoy those who think that CCing should not be an exception.

E’s can’t lose, they don’t annoy anyone.

F’s are on thin ice.

C’s are in deep trouble.

 

 

 

 

All this shows is that you've swallowed whole a load of bullshit. To retail the standard line with your trite 'C7' as if some pseudo correlation.

 

I happen to know, although I am not one of them, dozens of law abiding and law supporting liveaboards with no mooring. And for you to read a few tiresome threads on here and then think you can rubbish all those people is just not on.

 

I suggest you go and read the relevant Waterways Acts to see what and what is not legal before starting yet another topic on an overdone subject.

 

I think you'll find that most of your 'C's are living happy and fulfilled lives within the law and don't actually know or care what you think.

 

 

CCC'ers (Continuous Cruiser Complainers) are a waste, a complete f**cking bore! Go get a life!

 

Exactly so, Continuous Moorers most of them....

 

Continuous Moaners....

 

...and...

 

...Continuous Morons

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canaldrifter Experienced

canaldrifter

Posted
Posted

The very worst thing (for me) is that it divides the boating community at a time when we really should be sticking together.

 

I think that is very astute.

 

We are going to face problems that we haven't even considered in the very near future.

 

We should look to see who our real enemies are. DM take note.

 

A reasonably united voice might help.

 

Tone

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RLWP Veteran II

RLWP

Posted
Posted

This CC'ing thing is no different from McCarthyism, the Spanish Inquisition, the witch hunts of the Seventeenth century. There are no real villians but the hunt goes on to apprehend and burn at the stake various denominations of boater accused of trifling minor, practices that (when you really think about it) dont cause any harm to anyone, except a bunch of namby pambys who think like the Stasi.

 

CCC'ers (Continuous Cruiser Complainers) are a waste, a complete f**cking bore! Go get a life!

 

Well, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition

 

Richard

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