Shifting an annoying bolt

[BlueStringPudding]

I've been doing some much needed maintenance work on my Rutland wind turbine and need to be able to separate the two poles that join to make one ruddy-long great pole for it. The two poles are connected by two bolts that have an allen-key shape cut out of the top of them.

 

Like this one (but double-ended, in other words there's a dome with an allen-key slot at both ends of the bolts)

 

 

 

However try as I might, I cannot turn them at all.

 

I've tried leaving WD40 in it overnight but that made no difference. And I tried hitting the allen-key with a hammer while it was in the top of the bolt - which only took the corners off my allen-key (so it's now perfectly rounded! - fortuntately I have a spare). The bolts however, have remained entirely undamaged and still refuse to budge at all.

 

Any advice as to other tricks for loosening the little blighters?

[Naughty Cal]

Heat

[Biggles]

If its that tight I would be inclined to grind the head off very carefully and keeping it cool so as not to heat and damage the finish on the pole, the knock it through.

 

Biggles

[BlueStringPudding]

Heat

 

Nightlight candle it is then... as I'm not in posession of any other portable heat source I can get onto the roof of the boat. If a candle works, then marvellous!

[Timleech]

I've tried leaving WD40 in it overnight but that made no difference. And I tried hitting the allen-key with a hammer while it was in the top of the bolt - which only took the corners off my allen-key (so it's now perfectly rounded! - fortuntately I have a spare). The bolts however, have remained entirely undamaged and still refuse to budge at all.

 

Any advice as to other tricks for loosening the little blighters?

 

Buy better quality Allen keys

 

I'd use an extension tube in preference to hitting the key, but make sure your face is protected if you resort to either form of brutality as they can snap in a nasty manner.

 

Beyond that, heat if it won't damage other parts, square drive Hex keys to fit a socket ratchet etc (expensive) with or without an Impact Driver, ultimately grind off the head and fit a new bolt afterwards.

 

A tightening action before loosening sometimes helps.

 

Tim

 

Edit to add - if you rounded off your key it was either an el cheapo key, or maybe you were using a metric key in an imperial bolt or vice versa. Some sizes are close enough to use one key in the other but not in high stress situations. Make sure your key is a good fit.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Timleech

[dor]

I had a similar problem once on my bike. I took it to a local bike garage who had obviously come across this before. They used a slightly oversized Torx bit and hammered it into the allen key socket.

[zenataomm]

I used to : -

 

* Tighten first

 

* Heat

 

* Cut a slot across the head

 

* Grind a couple of parallel flats on the side then use mole grips

 

* Jump up and down and generally abuse everybody in earshot

 

 

.......... then somebody (one of the verbally abused) bought me this..............

 

http://www.jmldirect.com/Screw-Extractor-PS5616/

[David Schweizer]

This may sound a bit obtuse, but is there any chance that it is a left hand thread, which are sometimes fitted to machine parts which rotate in an anti clockwise direction.

[Guest User]

.... but double-ended, in other words there's a dome with an allen-key slot at both ends of the bolts

.... do you mean the ones shown here RUTLAND INSTRUCTIONS towards the bottom of page 4 ? (M10 x 16 mm dome head socket screws).

 

Could be they've seized in the aluminium joining section ? I'd be tempted to say leave it that way unless you really, really need to break down the pole. I have visions of strong-arm tactics stripping out the aluminium threads and then you'll be into re-tapping it for larger screws etc etc.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Graham!

[luctor et emergo]

As this pole is mounted outside, lets esstablish some details first.

 

are the bolts corroded?

 

If so, grinding or sawing off the bolt head or nut is probably the easiest option, as you will need to replace them anyway.

 

Not corroded, just very tight.

 

Get a properly fitting allen key, and an extension pipe. Leverage rather than brute impact works with allen keys. Trying to tighten first, often helps, and will also loosen the nut if it does turn out to be a left hand tread (it's unlikely, but still..).

[WotEver]

Like this one (but double-ended, in other words there's a dome with an allen-key slot at both ends of the bolts)

If it's as Graham questions in post #9 then it's actually two separate screws, not one double-ended one. I agree with him; if it's corroded into the aluminium joining piece then I'd be very wary of trying anything too brutal to get it apart.

 

Oh, and no dear, a tea-light ain't going to heat it up

 

Tony

[BlueStringPudding]

This may sound a bit obtuse, but is there any chance that it is a left hand thread, which are sometimes fitted to machine parts which rotate in an anti clockwise direction.

 

Not at all obtuse! Bearing in mind it's a double-headed bolt, I've tried turning it both ways. And there's a second one further down the pole which also won't shift. (However a third one at the top of the pole undoes fine so I know the type of bolt is okay - it's just these two partticularly gittish ones causing me all the problems)

 

.... do you mean the ones shown here RUTLAND INSTRUCTIONS towards the bottom of page 4 ? (M10 x 16 mm dome head socket screws).

 

Could be they've seized in the aluminium joining section ? I'd be tempted to say leave it that way unless you really, really need to break down the pole. I have visions of strong-arm tactics stripping out the aluminium threads and then you'll be into re-tapping it for larger screws etc etc.

 

That's the little b*stards!!!!! Grrrrr...

 

What I intend to do is ultimately shorten the pole. it doesn't need to be anywhere near as long as it is and it makes it too tall and too top-heavy for me to rig up on my own. However at half the height (and I've seen lots of Rutlands working really well much much shorter than mine) I will be able to rig it up fine. The top half of the pole won't need the screws to be intact - but I will need the screw holes to be intact as they'll be what I fix to the mounting bracket.

 

I'll try some leverage on the allen key first. It might work. Then maybe I'll go chat up a kindly nearby boater who might have a viscious screw-grinding device, just to lop their heads off!

Edited June 14, 2010 by BlueStringPudding

[Alan Saunders]

.... do you mean the ones shown here RUTLAND INSTRUCTIONS towards the bottom of page 4 ? (M10 x 16 mm dome head socket screws).

Could be they've seized in the aluminium joining section ? . . .

I am sure Graham is right. 4x screws are listed, not screwnuts and the instructions say the aluminium section has 'threaded holes' . Steel or plated steel screws bind (or maybe cold weld?) to aluminium over time. Also these appear to be 'binder head' screws with lock washers.

 

I used to use the normal allen key to remove them the key would have a considerable bend in it before the screw suddenly came free. There was a painful sting as the key whipped back! If you cannot get a socket drive allen key or suitable extension tube a ring spanner may be used to increase leverage on the allen key. I have never broken a spanner one but it is possibility.

 

I found that giving the screw a sharp welt with a small hammer (8oz) did the trick; hitting it slowly with a large hammer will not do the trick. Support the other side or use a heavy dolly (e.g. a club hammer). A drift inserted in the screw socket will avoid damaging the screw head.

 

If the screw is still stiff you may try tapping the key with a light hammer in alternate directions. Works best if you grind the short end of the key as short as possible. Initially there may be no perceptible movement!

 

If the key socket is damaged I use 'Screw Grab'; diamond dust in a light grease. I am told told that valve grinding paste works too.

 

If the screws are tapped into the aluminium joiner and you have sheared or ground off the heads you will still be unable to separate the sections untill you drill out the top of the screw with a 10mm drill. If assembly was as-per Rutland instructions you still have a problem. The parts are glued together with silicon sealant.

 

You will have to drill out the screws. Drill as close as you dare to the threads then fill the cavity with nitric acid. Leave, rinse out, repeat. The acid will eat into the steel (not sure about stainless) but hardly affect the aluminium. Eventually you will have only a coil of thread to pick out with a scriber. Easier to buy new joiner and screws from Rutland.

 

I cannot recommend 'easy-out screw extractors' because the have a tendency to snap off leaving an even bigger problem!

 

When you reassemble it, coat the threads with copper grease - it may make the job easier next time. Also, do not over-tighten the screws.

 

Graham's best advice -

. . . I'd be tempted to say leave it that way unless you really, really need to break down the pole. I have visions of strong-arm tactics stripping out the aluminium threads and then you'll be into re-tapping it for larger screws etc etc.

 

Edited beacause BSP has now explained the objective.

 

HTH, Alan

(It's a long time since I last hit my thumb with a hammer - Ouch!)

Edited June 14, 2010 by Alan Saunders

[BlueStringPudding]

I am sure Graham is right. 4x screws are listed, not screwnuts and the instructions say the aluminium section has 'threaded holes' . Steel or plated steel screws bind (or maybe cold weld?) to aluminium over time. Also these appear to be 'binder head' screws with lock washers.

 

I used to use the normal allen key to remove them the key would have a considerable bend in it before the screw suddenly came free. There was a painful sting as the key whipped back! If you cannot get a socket drive allen key or suitable extension tube a ring spanner may be used to increase leverage on the allen key. I have never broken a spanner one but it is possibility.

 

I found that giving the screw a sharp welt with a small hammer (8oz) did the trick; hitting it slowly with a large hammer will not do the trick. Support the other side or use a heavy dolly (e.g. a club hammer). A drift inserted in the screw socket will avoid damaging the screw head.

 

If the screw is still stiff you may try tapping the key with a light hammer in alternate directions. Works best if you grind the short end of the key as short as possible. Initially there may be no perceptible movement!

 

If the key socket is damaged I use 'Screw Grab'; diamond dust in a light grease. I am told told that valve grinding paste works too.

 

If the screws are tapped into the aluminium joiner and you have sheared or ground off the heads you will still be unable to separate the sections untill you drill out the top of the screw with a 10mm drill. If assembly was as-per Rutland instructions you still have a problem. The parts are glued together with silicon sealant.

 

You will have to drill out the screws. Drill as close as you dare to the threads then fill the cavity with nitric acid. Leave, rinse out, repeat. The acid will eat into the steel (not sure about stainless) but hardly affect the aluminium. Eventually you will have only a coil of thread to pick out with a scriber. Easier to buy new joiner and screws from Rutland.

 

I cannot recommend 'easy-out screw extractors' because the have a tendency to snap off leaving an even bigger problem!

 

When you reassemble it, coat the threads with copper grease - it may make the job easier next time. Also, do not over-tighten the screws.

 

Graham's best advice -

 

BSP, Perhaps if you describe the original problem, i.e. why you need to split the pole, the geniuses in this forum will find a better solution?

 

HTH, Alan

(It's a long time since I last hit my thumb with a hammer - Ouch!)

 

As mentioned above - I need to shorten the pole by about half, and foolishly I thought separating it at the join would be the easiest thing to do. Perhaps I should just chat up someone local who can saw the damn thing in half and drill new holes at the bottom end! Sounds like it might be easier than separating the two poles.

[Alan Saunders]

. . . What I intend to do is ultimately shorten the pole. it doesn't need to be anywhere near as long as it is and it makes it too tall and too top-heavy for me to rig up on my own. However at half the height (and I've seen lots of Rutlands working really well much much shorter than mine) I will be able to rig it up fine. The top half of the pole won't need the screws to be intact - but I will need the screw holes to be intact as they'll be what I fix to the mounting bracket. . .

1/Offer to swap your pole with a boater who has a short pole (with a cash adjustment!

2/Have a look at 'Hand Winches' on ebay or Machine Mart. You may need to raise the pole a few feet and rest it on something then 'heigh-ho and up she rises'.

 

Good luck, Alan

[Lee J]

Borrow a heat source. Dis-similar metals respond well to this.

 

Lee

[robkg]

There are much more effective products than WD40 available for freeing seized bolts. They are often refered to as release sprays.

Plus Gas is one well known brand.

 

Rob

[Josher]

Show it a more attractive nut?

 

[WotEver]

There are much more effective products than WD40 available for freeing seized bolts. They are often refered to as release sprays.

Plus Gas is one well known brand.

 

Rob

And they may take several days do 'do their thing' too.

 

Tony

[RLWP]

Looking ahead, when you put the nut and bolt back together, please give it some grease so you have a chance to undo it in the future. Stern tube grease will do

 

Richard

[Albion]

Or, just a thought, cut off the top half of the upper pole section and replicate the top mounting and guy fixings further down.

Roger

[smileypete]

Nightlight candle it is then... as I'm not in posession of any other portable heat source I can get onto the roof of the boat. If a candle works, then marvellous!

You'll get some funny looks from your neighbours.

 

Maybe try soaking it in some diesel to loosen it.

 

Use a hex bit in a fairly large wrench pointing upwards, so you can pull on the wrench while pushing against the pole with the other arm.

 

While giving it some welly someone else can pour boiling water over the joint where the screw is.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited June 15, 2010 by smileypete