Posh Diesel

[nb Innisfree]

Not common place though.

 

Very, very true

[GUMPY]

Diesel engines with no glow plugs, who would have thought that 10 years ago?

 

I recall lots of engines with no glow plugs prior to ten years ago!

In fact only one of my boat engines has ever had glow plugs and that the little 10hp Beta.

I will admit that the Dorset and the JP3 have a cold start device but its nothing to do with glow plugs

Not much use in cars but loads of use in boats.

[Albion]

Not common place though.

 

Most car engines had glow plugs because they were indirect injection (IDI). IDI engines were quieter than the direct injection (DI) engines that were used in vans and trucks (less combustion knock). But DI engines are inherently more fuel efficient than IDI so the economy plus noise was chosen for commercial vehicles, whereas the quieter but thirstier IDI engine was chosen for car applications. Ford experimented putting the York (inclined Transit van diesel) into the Granada of the 70s but it was too noisy and crude for the market to accept and it never was considered really suitable for the different requirements of the car market.

Roger

[smileypete]

Our Mukuni has suffered smoking since we fitted it 4+ years ago despite trying everything, but for the last few months it's behaved perfectly and I put it down to the decreasing production of gas oil leaving us with what is in effect road diesel with pink dye added as gas oil originally was many moons ago.

 

Going back to this, I believe 'idleness'/Julian burns gasoil in his Mikuni without much problem (possibly more frequent servicing of gloplug?) Also he gets direct delivery by tanker.

 

Maybe water or dirt in boat or canalside storage tanks is part of the problem? Fortron makes the water disperse into the fuel, whereby the Morris additive is intended to do the opposite, quote:

 

5- Improved fuel stability. Retards any tendency of the fuel to oxidise in storage and form harmful

sludges. It also prevents corrosion and rust in storage tanks and pipelines, reducing the

possibility of filter blocking.

6. Water tolerance. Use of this product promotes the separation of water from fuel so that the fuel

is water free and its full calorific value is obtained.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[soldthehouse]

As is lower in suphur it should be cheaper as its got less in it...

[PhilR]

Not sure but I seem to recall the first British diesel with direct injection and therefore no glowplugs was the Montego in the early 90s?

 

What about the S series Listers? They have no starting aids at all and the design goes back to the 1950's

[churchward]

I don't think many people currently make that claim - it has been much discussed on here in many previous threads.

 

Most "red" currently sold at canal-side outlets will be dyed gas-oil, not dyed "DERV", (the road fuel).

 

From memory DERV has to have a sulphur content of no more than 50 parts per million, whereas gas oil is still (I think) permitted to cotain sulphur at up to 2000 parts per million.

 

If those numbers are right (?) and realised in practice, then canalside "red" could contain 40 times more sulphur than diesel bought as roadsde DERV.

 

That's one big difference, although it seems to make little difference to typical narrow boat engines - rather more to diesel heating systems based on lorry cab heaters!

 

(Note it is possible to buy "ultra low sulphur" "red" - i.e. effectively road DERV, with dye in, but it's very much more likely that what a canalside retailer is selling is the higher sulphur stuff, I think.)

You may not like this but I am going to post it anyway.

 

The amount of Sulphur in the diesel used in the engine is a more important factor (for some/many engines) than if they are used at light load or idle for extended periods. Many oil additive packs are based on an assumption of fuel sulphur or "ash" content oils specs higher than API CF assume a low sulphur content (less than 0.5%) CF and lower assume a higher level (over 0.5%).

 

Using a fuel with an oil that is not intended for the sulphur content can help the dreaded much talked about but not often seen "bore glazing" as the interaction between the fuel and the oil helps cause the by-product and deposit on the bore particularly when the engine is new.

[GUMPY]

Going back to this, I believe 'idleness'/Julian burns gasoil in his Mikuni without much problem (possibly more frequent servicing of gloplug?) Also he gets direct delivery by tanker.

 

I had one delivery by tanker and that gave me diesel bug so never again.

ALL my fuel for the last 8 years apart from that one load 7 years ago has come from Pete on Bletchley and Argus.

 

Its not so much the servicing but how you run the Mikuni.

I have gone on ad nauseum about the use of thermostats and how that causes problems.

I do do a yearly service but not much in between.

 

J

[soldthehouse]

Not sure but I seem to recall the first British diesel with direct injection and therefore no glowplugs was the Montego in the early 90s?

Any one old enough would know that most early diesels didnt have heating of any type... Thats an old chauvanistic complement before its taken the wrong way...

Edited January 26, 2010 by soldthehouse

[barge sara]

Fascinating stuff, thanks for that.

 

Indeed, seconded.

[barge sara]

Any one old enough would know that mot early diesels didnt have heating of any type...

 

I well remember hand start generators, dumpers, pumps and bench saws on site, with no heater plugs. Quite big ones too that would snap a wrist if you didn't treat them right. Absolute bastards to start on frosty mornings.

Oh the joys of hand swinging a big cold genny before you could have lights or a cup of tea in the morning....

[smileypete]

Its not so much the servicing but how you run the Mikuni.

I have gone on ad nauseum about the use of thermostats and how that causes problems.

I do do a yearly service but not much in between.

Wonder if Innisfree uses a thermostat?

 

Seems there is a list of factors that can affect reliable running, including:

 

Fuel type

Fuel quality (or not!)

Use of thermostats

Servicing (or not)

Installation

 

etc...

 

cheers,

Pete.

[jake_crew]

My Fraud diesel car is 10 years old and is not a common rail design. But I reckon good quality, high lubricity fuel is important to long life of the fuel pump.

 

On supermarket derv I get about 450 miles to the tankful, which is 2 weeks of travelling to work up a motorway, so it all gets nice and hot.

 

On BP standard grade I get at least 75 miles more so I reckon it pays for itself. Also it starts cleaner and quicker so I only use te cheap stuff if I'm stuck.

 

I havent tried the expensive Ultmate grade enough to give exact data.

 

Ed for clarity

Edited January 26, 2010 by jake_crew

[nb Innisfree]

Wonder if Innisfree uses a thermostat?

 

Seems there is a list of factors that can affect reliable running, including:

 

Fuel type

Fuel quality (or not!)

Use of thermostats

Servicing (or not)

Installation

 

etc...

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

No, I fitted a t/stat override switch, mainly because t/stat cuts out above 30c which can be a pain in the summer. We run Mikuni with t/stat overriden for a minimum of 1 hour or until water stat shuts it down.

[matty40s]

I have just passed the 250kmiles (mostly motorway)in my 9yr old Skoda Tdi. I find a big difference in the fuels, especially in Winter.

The Ultimate(BP) and Excellium(Total) diesels guarantee easy starting and little smoke. The normal fuels, takes a good 30 secs or longer to boot up and big smoke, Sainsb/Asbo/Tesc petrol, disappears in clouds of noxious fumes reminiscent of Mt St Helenas pyroclastic flow after a minute.

I definitely get more miles to the gallon, but if it was just MPG, probably wouldn't be worth the extra cost, however, at this time of year, having a car you can start after a weeks hibernation without someone calling the fire brigade out makes it worth the extra bit.

 

oh, and the Gardner , any fuel, FuelSet, and it goes......................with Morris 30 Golden to ease the way.

[Nickhlx]

In a related vein...

 

When touring on my (petrol) bike, I always noticed an improvement in mpg ( about 7%) when using BP fuel, even ordinary unleaded, so do look to use that when looking for a fill up - I thought it was in my mind, but it happens too many times and someone else has just mentioned this, which is what reminded me and thought I would post...

 

Nick

[alan_fincher]

When touring on my (petrol) bike, I always noticed an improvement in mpg ( about 7%) when using BP fuel, even ordinary unleaded, so do look to use that when looking for a fill up - I thought it was in my mind, but it happens too many times and someone else has just mentioned this, which is what reminded me and thought I would post...

Having worked in the British oil industry, and at one time specifically on oil terminal stock control, and distribution, I can assure you that shared tankage and a huge network of "throughputting agreements" means that on the whole even if you buy nominally "BP" branded regular unleaded, you are very likely buying the same stuff, from the same tanks, as if you purchased from (say) a Shell or Esso garage.

 

THe only difference tends to be if one supplier claims some kind of additive that is not in the fuel held in the distribution depots, but which can be injected into the fuel at the gantry as delivery tankers are loaded.

 

So far as I know, this does not happen with "regular" BP fuels.

 

The company I worked for for 24 years has just two letters for it's brand name.

[Nickhlx]

Having worked in the British oil industry, and at one time specifically on oil terminal stock control, and distribution, I can assure you that shared tankage and a huge network of "throughputting agreements" means that on the whole even if you buy nominally "BP" branded regular unleaded, you are very likely buying the same stuff, from the same tanks, as if you purchased from (say) a Shell or Esso garage.

 

THe only difference tends to be if one supplier claims some kind of additive that is not in the fuel held in the distribution depots, but which can be injected into the fuel at the gantry as delivery tankers are loaded.

 

So far as I know, this does not happen with "regular" BP fuels.

 

The company I worked for for 24 years has just two letters for it's brand name.

 

.... so these would be better than e.g supermarket stuff then ?

 

Nick

[alan_fincher]

.... so these would be better than e.g supermarket stuff then ?

 

Nick

Not usually, in my experience.

 

Sainsbury's, Tesco, etc do not have their own pipelines or tank farms, so will be drawing on the same product as tankers from the big petrol companies, I believe.

 

Mind you I have been out of it for a few years.

 

Once if you gave a particular terminal name, I could have given chapter and verse on who owned the tankage, who owned the product, and which other companies just drew on those stocks, in return for reciprocal arrangements at other terminal(s).

 

I'm away from that all now, but work on the premise that up till it goes in a road delivery tanker, most of the fuel is swilling around at the same refineries, in the same pipelines, and in the same distribution terminal tankage.

 

There are exceptions - clearly you can't actually claim that "Mozaco's UltraZoom" contains some special additive that nobody else's does, unless you go to the expense of making that statement true. But otherwise generally "regular" petrol is just, well, "regular" petrol, I still believe.

[soldthehouse]

Not usually, in my experience.

 

Sainsbury's, Tesco, etc do not have their own pipelines or tank farms, so will be drawing on the same product as tankers from the big petrol companies, I believe.

 

Mind you I have been out of it for a few years.

 

Once if you gave a particular terminal name, I could have given chapter and verse on who owned the tankage, who owned the product, and which other companies just drew on those stocks, in return for reciprocal arrangements at other terminal(s).

 

I'm away from that all now, but work on the premise that up till it goes in a road delivery tanker, most of the fuel is swilling around at the same refineries, in the same pipelines, and in the same distribution terminal tankage.

 

There are exceptions - clearly you can't actually claim that "Mozaco's UltraZoom" contains some special additive that nobody else's does, unless you go to the expense of making that statement true. But otherwise generally "regular" petrol is just, well, "regular" petrol, I still believe.

Its a bit like Yorkshire Tea, each bag brews a different strength cup, and the huge volume of distillates and movements between tanks and vehicles makes for a very variable product...

[nb Innisfree]

Its a bit like Yorkshire Tea, each bag brews a different strength cup, and the huge volume of distillates and movements between tanks and vehicles makes for a very variable product...

 

I think tea tastes better.

[soldthehouse]

I think tea tastes better.

Tea bag in cup or brewed in a teapot...

[nb Innisfree]

Tea bag in cup or brewed in a teapot...

 

Teapot every time, bagged or loose

[soldthehouse]

Teapot every time, bagged or loose

How very civilised, hope you warm the pot first and cut your sandwiches into neat triangles with the crusts removed...

[Trilby Tim]

Its a bit like Yorkshire Tea, each bag brews a different strength cup, and the huge volume of distillates and movements between tanks and vehicles makes for a very variable product...

True. Formula 1 regs require that the cars use standard petrol that must be available on a forecourt. They don't state where the forecourt must be. Shell working with Ferrari (I expect other teams do the same too) therefore brew up special blends of fuel using fuel from different locations to get the best possible performance. Most of the time they use a blend that gives maximum energy per unit mass, but sometimes if they need to run long stints (and the size of the tank becomes a limiting factor) they switch to a blend that gives maximum energy per unit volume, so they get a few extra laps from a tank. So the fuel from one place to another varies, probably by more than the difference between different brands.

Unfortunately I don't know where the highest energy fuel is sold (or even what country!).