Que Sera Sera

[Dominic M]

It's not difficult to crane a boat out of the water or find a spot to doi it. It would attract attention agreed but done in the first days of hire in a discreet location easily doable. Even if someone saw the craning they would assume nothing wrong IMO It would need pre preparation/planning though to be undertaken quickly and efficiently. that's why the contact details and terms of the deal is important, How much time did they have to plan?

 

I did read someone saw the boat on day 2 of the hire, however You have to bear in mind also, with all the people on this forum and other forums, than no one has reported seeing this boat, I find that quite compelling given the amount of members so widly spread.

 

The craning out could have been very quick if all set up prepared and ready, not many people might have seen it, and it would need one of those few to be a forum member for us to know about it.

 

My hunch is this theft has been undertaken by professional thieves who usually target heavy plant and machinery. They operate country wide and even Europe.

 

There’s no demand for plant, you cant even sell it at half it’s true value what with the construction industry suffering as it is. Like any business thieves will diversify. Boats are more difficult to nick than plant, however can be very profitable with a quick return, and these people like to keep working like most of us.

 

From what little info gleaned, the MO mostly fits.

 

 

Easy diversification.

 

 

Plant thieves have the equipment to crane and move boats, low loaders etc.

 

Also have the equipment to paint spray and weld.

 

Know the road network, and operate nation wide.

 

Will have access to land, buildings etc most likely remote.

 

Can plan quickly with all the above.

 

Forged stolen documents easily obtainable in their world.

 

2 Muscular gentlemen spotted on boat, possibly building trade.

 

All they need is good access to a boat. Hiring one is the obvious way of doing this and gives them plenty of time to arrange removal.

 

The only thing that puts me off this hunch is the Audi TT they wouldn’t use such a nice valuable car in this scenario weather legit or stolen. If this car was present at the deal. Legit it can be traced, they wouldn’t do that. Stolen is a risk of getting caught with expensive car which would normally be garaged ringed and sold on.

 

Or maybe this car wasn’t present at the original hire deal but seen later, therefore an error on the thieves part and a good lead.

 

In addition the fact that this site exists and info has been put on other sites, if the thieves get wind of this, the boat might be stashed somewhere for a decent period of time until they assess the heat is off as it’s likely someone will spot it and recognise it by it’s interior or any unique features they haven’t changed.

 

This is my Opinion for what it's worth and an avenue worth pursuing, but info needed.

I think that if you can get the crane situated in a location in or around Oxford we have the basis of the next episode of "Lewis".

 

Someone is going to have to say this sooner or later. And as I get yelled at anyway it might as well be me.

 

There has been an awful lot of misinformation in this matter. Much more than usual. If I was a Police officer I'd be having a very careful look at where all this misinformation has come from. Because from what I see it has all come from the same place.

 

Gibbo

I'm happy to get yelled at with you, Gibbo. I think the body of suspicion points at the owners. And I have no qualms about saying that.

[alan_fincher]

Call me naive, but I still want to believe that this boat has been stolen and that we haven't all been given the run around by a stupid and inept attempt at an insurance scam.

In view of the facts that......

 

1) Every single piece of information about this incident seems to have been supplied by the owners.

2) A lot of that seemed flawed when first reported.

3) Vital information, which we were assured was reliable, has now been retracted.

 

It could seem highly tempting to believe that we are being misled.

 

However....

 

The one problem with the insurance fraud proposition is quite simply, even if the owners were deceiving us, what have they done with the boat?

 

Options would seem to include....

 

1) They have previously sold it, and it's still in this country - In which case it should still be possible to find it.

2) They have previously sold it, and it's gone abroad - But we are told that would be hard to pull off.

3) They have it hidden away somewhere, waiting for the fuss to die down - Not easy to do this, unless they have access to a remote farm or yard somewhere.

 

I'm discounting any idea they might have scrapped it, as just too unlikely.

 

So to me, it's hard to come up with an explanation that fits the information we have been given.

 

I can't actually think of ANY explanation that works any more, to be honest - perhaps somebody else can?

[david and julie]

I just can't make my mind up one way or the other with this one.

 

It certainly all seems very odd, but thinking logically, if I was doing an "insurance job" be it on a boat, car or even a break in at home, the last thing I'd want would be to draw attention to it. I can't see what the owners have to gain - from an insurance point of view - by putting it on here, indeed having loads of people looking for it - if it was a scam - could even get you caught.

 

Its just so ridiculous that it may be genuine.

[alan_fincher]

I just can't make my mind up one way or the other with this one.

 

It certainly all seems very odd, but thinking logically, if I was doing an "insurance job" be it on a boat, car or even a break in at home, the last thing I'd want would be to draw attention to it. I can't see what the owners have to gain - from an insurance point of view - by putting it on here, indeed having loads of people looking for it - if it was a scam - could even get you caught.

 

Its just so ridiculous that it may be genuine.

It wasn't the owners who did put it on here, though.

 

The original notification sent to Liam, listed 3 different contacts, and it has never been explained who any of them were, (I think!).

 

The owners only appeared a bit later.

 

It is possible to imagine a scenario where they had said a boat was stolen, wanted to keep it low profile, but where someone else "doing them a favour" thought "CWDF do well with stolen boats, lets tell them!"

 

If that were the case, the owners could have found themselves in the gaze of a lot more people than they expected to know about it, (particularly if they thought the only person interested was a Bobby on holiday!).

 

So it doesn't have to be that ridiculous, really.

 

It still doesn't answer where the boat's gone, though.

Edited March 29, 2009 by alan_fincher

[Dominic M]

I just can't make my mind up one way or the other with this one.

 

It certainly all seems very odd, but thinking logically, if I was doing an "insurance job" be it on a boat, car or even a break in at home, the last thing I'd want would be to draw attention to it. I can't see what the owners have to gain - from an insurance point of view - by putting it on here, indeed having loads of people looking for it - if it was a scam - could even get you caught.

 

Its just so ridiculous that it may be genuine.

Apart from making it look as though they had done their utmost to recover the vessel. Which is why the misleading information as to it whereabouts, all supplied by the owner, sets the alarm bells ringing.

 

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think this whole thing stinks.

[koukouvagia]

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think this whole thing stinks.

 

I agree. But whether it’s a scam or not, no insurance company is going to pay anything out if they read this thread, without first making more sense of the story than any of us seem to be able to do.

[Ange]

I understood that renting the boat privately rather than through Distinctive Charters made their insurance invalid so can't be an insurance scam? I'm still of the belief that they were naive and should have all our help and sympathy. Lets not make naivety a crime!

[Naughty Cal]

I thought you were going to tell us that the join point is the indented inset steps for clambering out of the water that Phylis was insisting all NBs should have as part of their design.

 

I was keeping out of this one as from day one it has all the readings of some scam. However now you have brought me into it yes i do believe it is a scam gone wrong.

[alan_fincher]

I understood that renting the boat privately rather than through Distinctive Charters made their insurance invalid so can't be an insurance scam?

That's certainly what distinctive charters have published on their web-site.

 

I can understand it if the owners were relying on Distinctive Charter's own insurance, although it has not, I think, been stated that they were.

 

It would seem a bit strange if they held insurance themselves that allowed private hiring of the boat, but that hiring had to be through a third party, (wouldn't it ?)

 

I'm still of the belief that they were naive and should have all our help and sympathy. Lets not make naivety a crime!

That's what I want to think, as I hate to think of someone from the boating community playing a giant con on the rest of us.

 

However, for me there are now some unanswered questions that make it very hard to swallow a naivety claim.

 

How on earth is it possible that we were told that the boat had been positively identified by someone who not only knew it, but had been aboard it, whereas out of the blue we are then told that person has confused it with a similar "Que Sera Sera" ?

 

Even in the (highly unlikely) event that there is a similar "Que Sera Sera" operating in the same area, how come nobody looking for this one has reported a sighting of the "wrong" one ?

 

I've already said that if it's a scam, then I can't see what the scam is. However, equally, I find it almost impossible to believe that events as reported can be true, I'm afraid.

 

It's a real puzzler, and one I'm increasingly convinced we will never know the truth about.

Edited March 30, 2009 by alan_fincher

[Naughty Cal]

Not long til the first of april. We will find out soon.

[Dutch]

Not long til the first of april. We will find out soon.

I honestly feel this forum has been used in to help in a scam,to many questions ignored and requests for information not forthcoming.

Mick

[Tiny]

But the fact remains that, scam or not, out there somewhere is the boat that is/was Que Sera Sera which is/is not repainted and renumbered. And that even with all the people looking no-one has seen it in the last few weeks.

 

Having said that some years back I used to pass a farm some miles from the canals which seemed to always have a number of boats up to 70' 'parked' on hard standing. Given this - if it has been lifted out it could be anywhere - but what good would that do to those who now have it?

Edited March 30, 2009 by Tiny

[chris w]

But the fact remains that, scam or not, out there somewhere is the boat that is/was Que Sera Sera which is/is not repainted and renumbered. And that even with all the people looking no-one has seen it in the last few weeks.

It's not a FACT, just supposition.

 

Chris

[Ex- Member]

That's what I want to think, as I hate to think of someone from the boating community playing a giant con on the rest of us.

 

However, for me there are now some unanswered questions that make it very hard to swallow a naivety claim.

 

How on earth is it possible that we were told that the boat had been positively identified by someone who not only knew it, but had been aboard it, whereas out of the blue we are then told that person has confused it with a similar "Que Sera Sera" ?

 

Even in the (highly unlikely) event that there is a similar "Que Sera Sera" operating in the same area, how come nobody looking for this one has reported a sighting of the "wrong" one ?

I've already said that if it's a scam, then I can't see what the scam is. However, equally, I find it almost impossible to believe that events as reported can be true, I'm afraid.

 

It's a real puzzler, and one I'm increasingly convinced we will never know the truth about.

 

My faith in human nature is wearing very thin LOL

 

Very good point in Red. There's been loads of posts from members searching in that area and I'm sure they would have spotted a boat with an almost copy cat name.

 

It seems not a single member of this forum has seen either LOL

 

Just because we're told they're not insured doesn't mean they aren't. I think Alan's on to something

Edited March 30, 2009 by Julynian

[johnjo]

Would have expected something from the owners or their daughter by now regarding their searching over the weekend, at least I assume they've been looking?

[Bones]

Would have expected something from the owners or their daughter by now regarding their searching over the weekend, at least I assume they've been looking?

 

 

that would depend on whether they have internet access, and who else they are updating.

[carlt]

Would have expected something from the owners or their daughter by now regarding their searching over the weekend, at least I assume they've been looking?

If they are genuine, but incredibly naive, then they have probably been scared off by all the negativity.

 

If it is a scam, then we shouldn't be surprised if they don't return.

[Natalie Graham]

that would depend on whether they have internet access, and who else they are updating.

And on whether they have got fed up of posting on here, to then find themselves painted as criminals and fraudsters.

[Bones]

If they are genuine, but incredibly naive, then they have probably been scared off by all the negativity.

 

If it is a scam, then we shouldn't be surprised if they don't return.

 

 

I dont think we should be surprised if they dont return at all, not least because of the carp they have to read before they post anything and then it is scrutinised.

 

No reports of the ship down on the Oxford, but it has made me think it is worth photographing bits of ones boat that are 'unique' so descriptions and posts can be made without delay.

 

And on whether they have got fed up of posting on here, to then find themselves painted as criminals and fraudsters.

 

quite!

[carlt]

And on whether they have got fed up of posting on here, to then find themselves painted as criminals and fraudsters.

I still lean towards the thinking that they have been conned and have demonstrated complete naivete and ignorance in how to hang onto their boat, coordinate a search and keep forum members happy.

 

Unless you have gone through the trauma of losing a boat then you cannot criticise someone else's reaction.

 

When Usk was burnt I didn't want to go anywhere near the mooring and still struggle to visit. Swmbo was ill for months after (and has never visited a canal since). She is absolutely the last person I would have ever thought would suffer from stress or depression but she was off work for ages and, now the saga seems to be reaching a conclusion, is showing signs of becoming unwell, again.

 

Unless the owners of this boat are found to have committed something graver than gross stupidity, we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

[starman]

Strikes me that if anyone is concerned about having their boat pinched they should fit a tracking device - they're routinely fitted in expensive sports cars - or an alarm that alerts you by mobile phone. They're not that costly and widely available.

[alan_fincher]

Well unless they have done an anonymous login their profile shows them not having logged in for about 5 days.

 

If that's the case, then they have not been driven away by recent comments.

 

Nor, or course, have they checked the reports of those who have been looking for Que Sera Sera in their travels.

 

Surely the option is fully open to them to come and answer some of the unanswered questions, or to explain why information previously given was then withdrawn ?

 

For example, clearly it doesn't trouble some of those on here that what was claimed to be a guaranteed sighting of the boat by someone who knew it, was then said not to be. I certainly think that warrants further explanation.

[carlt]

Strikes me that if anyone is concerned about having their boat pinched they should fit a tracking device - they're routinely fitted in expensive sports cars - or an alarm that alerts you by mobile phone. They're not that costly and widely available.

Hindsight does not solve problems retrospectively.

 

I imagine a poll of boat owners, asking who has a tracker, would show that there aren't many out there.

[alan_fincher]

Hindsight does not solve problems retrospectively.

 

I imagine a poll of boat owners, asking who has a tracker, would show that there aren't many out there.

Although few of us hand our boats over to strangers, of course.

 

If some hire boat companies made a practice of fitting trackers, they probably would prefer we didn't know.

[churchward]

I still lean towards the thinking that they have been conned and have demonstrated complete naivete and ignorance in how to hang onto their boat, coordinate a search and keep forum members happy.

 

Unless you have gone through the trauma of losing a boat then you cannot criticise someone else's reaction.

 

When Usk was burnt I didn't want to go anywhere near the mooring and still struggle to visit. Swmbo was ill for months after (and has never visited a canal since). She is absolutely the last person I would have ever thought would suffer from stress or depression but she was off work for ages and, now the saga seems to be reaching a conclusion, is showing signs of becoming unwell, again.

 

Unless the owners of this boat are found to have committed something graver than gross stupidity, we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

I completely agree with you and Bones. I have been trying to say similar in previous posts but have rather given up on it as a bad job. I rather feel that many of the posts now and in the past show this forum in a bad light. Folk have no real evidence for what they are saying but seem quite happy to label the owners as cheats and insurance scammers.

 

despite what some people may think they do not owe us any explanations. Now not all there actions may help some folk on here to understand but as I have said before all we really need to know is where is being searched what has been sighted and when. All we can do is look and keep our eyes open as we go our way on the cut.

 

I would much rather live by assuming someone is telling the truth in such circumstances until proved otherwise and give folk the benefit of the doubt. Of course there are times when I can be proved wrong and suffer those that will say "I told you so" etc. What I see going on here is no more than idle gossip that is not helping find the boat one little bit.

Edited March 30, 2009 by churchward