MOORING TRANSFERS

[chris123]

hi there.

this is probably a question asked many times but...

i currently own a boat on a no-residential BW mooring on regents canal. i bought this boat two years ago at an inflated price so that the mooring could be passed to me. i'd now like to sell the boat and pass on the mooring to a new owner to make back some of the money.

of course BW tell me that i am not allowed to do this and was should not have been allowed to take over the mooring two years ago.

would i be right in saying that they had no problem in shelling out lots of money two years ago so long as i paid rent and should allow me to transfer the mooring?

[denboy]

grey area,, it worked when you bought the boat so should do again

[carlt]

grey area,, it worked when you bought the boat so should do again

Only trouble is, they didn't seem to spot it, last time, this time they have.

 

If you brought it to their attention, Chris, you may be punished for your honesty.

Edited February 5, 2009 by carlt

[Lady Muck]

hi there.

this is probably a question asked many times but...

i currently own a boat on a no-residential BW mooring on regents canal. i bought this boat two years ago at an inflated price so that the mooring could be passed to me. i'd now like to sell the boat and pass on the mooring to a new owner to make back some of the money.

of course BW tell me that i am not allowed to do this and was should not have been allowed to take over the mooring two years ago.

would i be right in saying that they had no problem in shelling out lots of money two years ago so long as i paid rent and should allow me to transfer the mooring?

 

Bit of a tricky one, Chris, I think they've really cracked down on this in London. I don't see this happening at all where I am, anymore and it used to happen all the time.

 

The thing is, the moorings were never supposed to be transferrable, whatever happened in reality, the contracts have never said that they are transferrable, well, I'm certain they weren't when you took the mooring over. Do you have the original mooring agreement?

 

The other problem you could face is should anyone want to buy the boat with a marine mortgage, they'll only lend to the value of the boat and not an over-inflated price to take in account the mooring.

 

Also should you decide to sell with the mooring anyway, your buyer could find themselves in the same position as someone I know. Bought the boat first, called the warden to transfer it to his name only for them to tell him that they already had a boat lined up for that spot and he would have 28 days to move. It's changed quite a bit in London!

 

Good luck whatever you try to do.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Lady Muck

[dor]

BW have brought in their mooring tender system in the last two years which effectively stops the unofficial passing on of moorings that used to go on.

[nbtafelberg]

Yeah I think you probably won't get away with it any more.

[Dominic M]

hi there.

this is probably a question asked many times but...

i currently own a boat on a no-residential BW mooring on regents canal. i bought this boat two years ago at an inflated price so that the mooring could be passed to me. i'd now like to sell the boat and pass on the mooring to a new owner to make back some of the money.

of course BW tell me that i am not allowed to do this and was should not have been allowed to take over the mooring two years ago.

would i be right in saying that they had no problem in shelling out lots of money two years ago so long as i paid rent and should allow me to transfer the mooring?

The people you bought from had no right to pass on the mooring to you. Even before the tendering system a waiting list system operated. It is true that this was abused and people did pass on moorings unofficially, but you have no rights at all I'm afraid.

[Lady Muck]

Yeah it sounds like the person you bought the boat from conned you into paying more ithan the boat is worth in order to get a rented mooring transferred to you. You paid for something that you don't own.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Lady Muck

[koukouvagia]

I don’t know whereabouts on the Regents Canal the mooring in question is, but if it’s at Ice Wharf, Battlebridge, the question may not be as cut and dried as it appears. When Ice Wharf first opened my son lived on the butty on a residential mooring. These moorings were first administered by a property company – I’ve forgotten the name – and the moorings were transferable. As a consequence £10K boats were being sold with a mooring at £80K – a fortune at the time.

When BW took back the lease of Ice Wharf they did two things: they tripled the mooring fee but allowed the original contracts with right to sell the boat with the mooring to continue.

There was no way that my son could afford the hike in mooring fees, so he moved elsewhere. The vacant space may well have been subject to different conditions, but if he were still there and wanted to sell the boat now then he would be able, I assume, to transfer the boat and the mooring.

 

I suppose it all depends on what the OP has in writing.

[Androo]

Im in a private marina and I had to pay a transfer fee of 570 pounds when I bought my boat. Is this more or less correct for a nb of 57ft or can they charge whatever they like?

 

Androo

[flatplane8]

Im in a private marina and I had to pay a transfer fee of 570 pounds when I bought my boat. Is this more or less correct for a nb of 57ft or can they charge whatever they like?

 

Androo

 

I would guess thats down to each marina and they will charge what the market will bear....

 

When I sell my boat there is no transfer fee for the new owner that I'm aware of, but each marina will have its own 'rules'

[dor]

Im in a private marina and I had to pay a transfer fee of 570 pounds when I bought my boat. Is this more or less correct for a nb of 57ft or can they charge whatever they like?

 

Androo

 

Going by the adverts in the waterways press there is no shortage of marina places around, so I am surprised they can ask for a transfer fee at all. Thouhg perhaps spaces are more limited in London.

[alan_fincher]

Going by the adverts in the waterways press there is no shortage of marina places around, so I am surprised they can ask for a transfer fee at all. Thouhg perhaps spaces are more limited in London.

Our marina is at full capacity, despite continuing to pile on the 5% price increases each year, (others are reducing there fees, we hear....).

 

However they don't charge extra if you buy a boat that's in there, and take over the mooring, (although they do make money, as the boat will invariably have been sold via their brokerage).

 

We are told plans for other marinas in the area are now shelved, so unlike other areas, down here supply seems consistently to outstrip demand.

 

I think the answer is that, whatever the operator, any marina will charge what they think the market will stand. Close to London, it will still stand a lot more than if you go to one of the areas with a glut of new marinas.

 

I was surprised to find that some full time live-aboards, for whom the marina acts as a postal address, do not in fact have residential moorings. I'm not sure how many of the berths are officially residential, but I suspect it's not very many at all, despite many of the boats being obvious full time homes.

[ditchcrawler]

I would guess thats down to each marina and they will charge what the market will bear....

 

When I sell my boat there is no transfer fee for the new owner that I'm aware of, but each marina will have its own 'rules'

But do they insist on brokering the sale?

Brian

[alan_fincher]

But do they insist on brokering the sale?

Brian

You are certainly not allowed to put a notice on the boat offering it for private sale.

 

I can't see they can stop you making a private sale by other routes, (e.g. Apollod Duck).

 

Whether they would still be prepared to transfer it's mooring to a new owner I can't say. I guess it's questionable, but I've never asked.

[Lady Muck]

Going by the adverts in the waterways press there is no shortage of marina places around, so I am surprised they can ask for a transfer fee at all. Thouhg perhaps spaces are more limited in London.

 

Well, quite. They almost never become available.

[estwdjhn]

There is a residential London mooring on waterscape tendering site at the moment - I dread to think what the final bid will be...

[Dominic M]

Our marina is at full capacity, despite continuing to pile on the 5% price increases each year, (others are reducing there fees, we hear....).

 

However they don't charge extra if you buy a boat that's in there, and take over the mooring, (although they do make money, as the boat will invariably have been sold via their brokerage).

 

We are told plans for other marinas in the area are now shelved, so unlike other areas, down here supply seems consistently to outstrip demand.

 

I think the answer is that, whatever the operator, any marina will charge what they think the market will stand. Close to London, it will still stand a lot more than if you go to one of the areas with a glut of new marinas.

 

I was surprised to find that some full time live-aboards, for whom the marina acts as a postal address, do not in fact have residential moorings. I'm not sure how many of the berths are officially residential, but I suspect it's not very many at all, despite many of the boats being obvious full time homes.

The fact is, Alan, in the case of Cowroast's two marinas - the other being at Fenny Compton - and with many other marinas, the boat owner is denied the option of choosing the broker they want to sell their boat (if they don't wish to sell privately). You would find that you either have to place it with Cowroast's own brokerage, or take it away. Many marinas will also seek some form of consideration if you sell it privately as well. As an independent broker I believe this is an outrageously restrictive practice. But it persists, and widely. One substantial offender is British Waterways Marinas Ltd. who, having used public money to acquire 18 marinas, insist that all boats moored there are either placed their brokerage or leave, should the owner wish to sell. The owner cannot use a third party brokerage. What sort of level playing field is that? This is a company whose sole shareholder, a public body in the form of the British Waterways Board, claimed that they wanted to establish a true open market for their on line moorings. What sort of open market is it if you are forced to use their brokerage instead of exercising free choice?

 

[/gripe]

Edited February 6, 2009 by Dominic M

[Hazza]

Agreed. Many marinas do charge if you sell your boat privately. I had an incident where they tried to frustrate the sale by threatening to put a lien on the boat and not let the new owner take it out unless I paid an outrageous fee.

 

It was said that part of the value of the boat was the marina berth which was rubbish as they had spare berths. I felt they should have given me commission for providing them with a new customer. It didn't work!

[bibliotechno]

I find the whole subject of moorings and finding a residential mooring so frustrating....many marina's advertise as non-residential though allow 'some' full-time liveaboards....BW seem like a bunch of ar**s (collective noun?) and have proved that they only wish to sell their ar*e to the highest bidder. I'm faced with the chicken and the egg conundrum plus a bloody long commute to work at this rate.

[Lady Muck]

Thing is, mr techno, its not bw who are really to blame, here; its the local authorities who grant the planning permission for moorings and marinas and they don't like or want liveaboards, generally. Why? Well they can generate complaints from residents, who often see us as a floating caravan site and like to complain about generators, dogs, vehicles and smoke from our stoves. Also I've heard (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong), they see boaters as a big risk, if we are official residents and our boats sink then they are obliged to rehome us.

Bw are facing big problems with an explosion of liveaboards on our canals, they know we need more residential moorings and fast, but they have to fight local authorities in order to provide them. My only criticism is that when residential moorings do exist or get created, they are way out of the price range or budget of the boaters who want them - as much as £10k a year in London. .

[Lesd]

When I enquried about a mooring at Cow Roast the chap there told me only two were residential (to help with security) and the rest were leisure only. He didnt know me from Adam so its to be expected I guess but I took it with a pinch of salt. Ive moored outside a few times now and the amount of chimneys going every night, permanent TV aerials etc is a whole lot more than two lol. Good luck to them I say !!

Les

 

Our marina is at full capacity, despite continuing to pile on the 5% price increases each year, (others are reducing there fees, we hear....).

 

However they don't charge extra if you buy a boat that's in there, and take over the mooring, (although they do make money, as the boat will invariably have been sold via their brokerage).

 

We are told plans for other marinas in the area are now shelved, so unlike other areas, down here supply seems consistently to outstrip demand.

 

I think the answer is that, whatever the operator, any marina will charge what they think the market will stand. Close to London, it will still stand a lot more than if you go to one of the areas with a glut of new marinas.

 

I was surprised to find that some full time live-aboards, for whom the marina acts as a postal address, do not in fact have residential moorings. I'm not sure how many of the berths are officially residential, but I suspect it's not very many at all, despite many of the boats being obvious full time homes.

[sueb]

Why should BW provide residential moorings? I can't see anything in it for them. BW are providing moorings for a leisure industry, if people choose to live on boats it's the boaters problem.

Sue

[nbtafelberg]

Thats like saying

 

Why should the council provide housing? Theres nothing in it for them.

[Lady Muck]

Why should BW provide residential moorings? I can't see anything in it for them. BW are providing moorings for a leisure industry, if people choose to live on boats it's the boaters problem.

Sue

 

Because they want to? Because they acknowledge they can make alot of money from us residentials? I can see that they never really intended to or wanted to be a landlord, but they now recognise that liveaboards have some value. (Especially now leisure boating has become so expensive its priced many boaters out).

Edited February 11, 2009 by Lady Muck