I want hot water without using gas or running the engine

[Lady Muck]

We have an Alde onboard, it's not the newest kind and it needs servicing. I've never used it. On our mooring we have a shower block, when we cruise the engine gives us hot water.

 

BUT I want the option of showering onboard without using the Alde (gas isn't getting any cheaper). There are more boaters here than there used to be and only two showers in the facilities block- we'd prefer to shower on the boat.

 

We have a 240v hook up - is there anyway of getting an immersion heater fitted,or a 240v electric shower?

 

I know nothing - please enlighten me.

[Keeping Up]

If you have a hot-water tank with a calorifier, it may have the suitable threaded hole for an immersion heater already, with a blanking plate screwed in - this would be at the top of the tank. If so it would be simple to fit an immersion heater - but you need to buy a low-power one as the standard domestic ones generally take more power than a shoreline can provide. This doesn't mean that the water doesn't get as hot, merely that it takes longer to heat up.

 

AFAIK most of the "instantaneous" electric showers also take too much power for use from a shoreline.

[tillergirl]

am probably being extremely stupid here but don't solar panels heat water up?

[nbtafelberg]

there are solar panels that DO heat up water.

 

You could get a stove with a back boiler but that's only for the winter.

 

We have one its a Squirrel and its fantastic

[Robbo]

Hello,

 

I'm nearly in the same boat (excuse pun), I hardly use any hot water per day as we have showers onshore. I'm also on 240v hookup, have a diesel boiler and calorifier. As the calorifier holds much more hot water than I need it seems daft to heat it all, so I'm investigating in using a under sink heater, these hold around 5-10litres and I've seen them from 600w. They run inline (I believe) with the "main hot water source" so can be used injunction with your calorifier/adel, etc. They also do tankless one's but these need around 7kw (like a shower).

 

Does anyone see any issues with the above setup?

[dave_2A_]

And I've got a Paloma as my only source of hot water. I've recently bought a Squirrel with a backboiler, & I'd like to get a Calorifier to reduce gas consumption. Is it possible to plumb the three together?

[Lady Muck]

Our stove does have a backboiler but it runs the radiators - another reason i don't use the alde - its warm enough without.

[Robbo]

And I've got a Paloma as my only source of hot water. I've recently bought a Squirrel with a backboiler, & I'd like to get a Calorifier to reduce gas consumption. Is it possible to plumb the three together?

 

 

For connecting multiple boilers together you need to make sure one boiler doesn't supply the the other boiler with hot water. Dunsley make a device ( http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/linkupsys.htm ) to connect multiple boilers together but there are other ways..

Edited August 9, 2008 by Robbo

[larkshall]

Hmm ok your options are (realistic ones only)

 

a) Fit low wattage immersion to your existing hot water cylinder (1kw to 1.5kw only)

 

b ) Solid fuel.

 

You cant use standard immersion (2-3 KW), shoreline wont support

You cant use instant water heater (typically 2-3kw)

You cant use Electric Power shower (typically 5-10.5 Kw)

 

Solar hot water pricey to install results not reliable and unproven

 

Oil fired hot water boiler?...Costly

 

Instant gas, probably best bet

 

Sorry somewhat negative in response but heating water instantly is costly. Heating and storing hot water gives more options (engine, immersion, boiler 'solar').

 

Your lowest capital outlay is likely to be immersion, Provided the existing cylinder has a blanking plug and capability to support an immersion

[blackrose]

I fitted a 1.25kw immersion heater to my 60 litre calorifier about 2 years ago and it wasn't a difficult job. The blanking plate was under a lump in the insulation at the bottom of the tank. It heats up the calorifier in about an hour and a half, or you can fit a timer to come on once or twice a day.

 

I mentioned to a neighbour how convenient it felt to be able to have hot water without starting my engine, but he just looked at me with disdain and said he couldn't believe I'd waited so long to fit it!

 

If you're on shorepower and you have a calorifier without an immersion heater, then you're not getting the best out of your mooring in my opinion. Make sure you buy an immersion with dual thermostat and a short reach one may be easier to fit depending on the position of your calorifier.

Edited August 9, 2008 by blackrose

[Lady Muck]

^^^^

That's exactly the information I was after! My electrictiy is very cheap (I only spend £1 a week in the summer because of the solar panels and wind genny charging the batteries),I figured out that it was daft to not use it more.

 

Thanks!

[Kristian]

Heres a cheap solution, Just get used to cold showers and become a real liveaboard! LOL.....

In all fairness though, I had the same issues and went for a squial diesel stove with a backboiler to supply hot water, but run it on heating oil.

It burns much better/hotter, so therefore cheaper as you dont need as much of it to get the same results, and theres no danger of it doubling in

price come November!

kristian

[Phoenix_V]

I wouldnt have thought the Alde would cost much more to run than an immersion heater?

[Lady Muck]

I wouldnt have thought the Alde would cost much more to run than an immersion heater?

 

Not so much more at the moment, but gas has gone up by about 25% in two years - it's not only that - it's changing the bottles - I'd rather do that as little as possible. I don't have a car so the gas has to come from the coalboat or we have to take the boat to Springfield boatyard. It's not always convenient for us to take half a day out just to buy gas!

[Phoenix_V]

Thats easy join the rboa scheme get a discount and have the bottles delivered.

[blackrose]

The point surely is to have the choice of which system you want to use - it's not an either/or situation. Nobody is telling Lady M to get rid of the Alde, it will always be useful for cruising, but wouldn't it also be nice to be able to have a tank of hot water at the flick of a switch or when gas has run out, it's raining outside and she can't be bothered to change bottles? If the calorifier doesn't have a boss for an immersion then it's a no go, but if it does then for the sake of £35, draining the calorifier and doing a bit of wiring, why wouldn't you have an immersion heater?

Edited August 10, 2008 by blackrose

[Ex- Member]

With hindsight I wish we went for gas hot water. I know gas has risen in price, but to heat water only as you use it is certainly a more efficient use of energy, we also have 3 gas bottles in the bow 2 of which are linked so when one bottle runs out, it doesn;t have to be changed as such, just open the valve on the second bottle which is already connected. When appropriate then change the emptied one for bottle No. 3 and get it refilled. At least the gas water heater will give hot water all year round, and the new heater units are really good now and under £200 for some units. I might still fit one, but being mostly lined out now it could be tricky to fit.

 

For Lady Muck's solution though I agree an emmersion heater is the best option for shore line. We have one currently whilst on dry land, and it works really well with only a 1kw element @ 240 volts.

[Big COL]

The point surely is to have the choice of which system you want to use - it's not an either/or situation. Nobody is telling Lady M to get rid of the Alde, it will always be useful for cruising, but wouldn't it also be nice to be able to have a tank of hot water at the flick of a switch or when gas has run out, it's raining outside and she can't be bothered to change bottles? If the calorifier doesn't have a boss for an immersion then it's a no go, but if it does then for the sake of £35, draining the calorifier and doing a bit of wiring, why wouldn't you have an immersion heater?

 

Just a point of interest which may be of some help. If your calorifier doesn't have an immersion boss then you can still retro fit one using an Essex flange. These flanges are fitted from the outside of the cylinder,there is no need to have internal access, you just need to cut the correct size hole in the calorifier.

I can remember doing one of these when I was still an apprentice and I can't remember the exact process for fitting one, but they do work. I am sure someone will know the full mechanics of how they go together. Have a look at the link.

 

http://www.essexflanges.com/flanges.html#

Edited August 10, 2008 by Big COL

[Lady Muck]

Sorry, but the name Essex Flange made me LOL

[Big COL]

Sorry, but the name Essex Flange made me LOL

 

It must have been a quiet titter,because I didn't hear you.

[bottle]

Sorry, but the name Essex Flange made me LOL

 

There is also a Surrey fitting but that is used in a different way.

[Hekaterine]

LOL. We've just gone for an immersion heater and we love it! No more boiling the kettle to wash up! We didn't have a boss to fit the immersion so had to replace the tank - my MIL bought it for us as a belated boat-warming present and it cost £350. Money well spent - especially as it wasn't my money

 

Wish we'd done it ages ago.

[RichardH]

When we had the Alde we had gas delivered which wasn't Calor and in 18kg bottles. The company delivered to all the boats on the mooring and as a result an 18kg bottle was £13 (2 years ago) but still way cheaper than Calor.

 

It is definately worth shopping around for gas.

 

I always rated the term 'Bevelled Flange' at school when talking about the development of the railway engine wheel.

[Ex- Member]

When we had the Alde we had gas delivered which wasn't Calor and in 18kg bottles. The company delivered to all the boats on the mooring and as a result an 18kg bottle was £13 (2 years ago) but still way cheaper than Calor.

 

It is definately worth shopping around for gas.

 

I always rated the term 'Bevelled Flange' at school when talking about the development of the railway engine wheel.

 

 

I get gas delivered in 19kg bottles for our forklift a lot cheaper than 13k bottles from Calor. £19.10 for 19kg The same size bottle from Calor is £29.60. We use Flogas and they're about the cheapest around here. We have one 13kg Flogas bottle on the boat and 2 Calor, but the Calor bottles will be returned and replaced with Flogas as soon as we're due a refill. I know there's less outlets for Flogas, but we have room for 3 bottles so don't need to top up that often. I think their 13kg propane bottles work out over £5.00 cheaper than Calor, it does depend on the outlet though, prices seem to vary a lot between different outlets, however canal side gas is way out of the question price wise and a complete rip off considering it has a guaranteed passing trade. Or do some marinas offer good deals? might be a good idea to list them

[monty]

Just a point of interest which may be of some help. If your calorifier doesn't have an immersion boss then you can still retro fit one using an Essex flange. These flanges are fitted from the outside of the cylinder,there is no need to have internal access, you just need to cut the correct size hole in the calorifier.

I can remember doing one of these when I was still an apprentice and I can't remember the exact process for fitting one, but they do work. I am sure someone will know the full mechanics of how they go together. Have a look at the link.

 

http://www.essexflanges.com/flanges.html#

 

 

Had the exact thing fitted a year ago,works a treat just get the right hole cutter and insert the flange then screw the 1k heater in,if you wanted hot water mainly for shower use its quicker to heat the water if you put the immersion heater at the top of the tank