Boat length for beginners

[Chris J W]

Prompted by the Off Topic bit on This Thread about which would be a better lenght boat for a newbie - shorter or longer - thought we'd be better off (especially for the OP of the thread just mentioned!) discussing it separately.

 

So - for a newbie ... get a short boat and then move up, or dive in at the deep end and get a full(-ish) length?

 

Personally, I'm glad I went for a 57ft and (despite my own self-aware joking) I'm sure I'd have gotten on just aswell with a 70ft-er, and after a year consider my handling as "Not too bad. At least Allan didn't shout at me, and Baldock wouldn't laugh too much".

 

As a complete and utter newbie I had no pre-expectations so have to learn the steep learning curve as I went along. But that's just me.

 

What does everyone else think?

Edited May 10, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[Windjammer]

Why are you glad you went for a 57ft boat ?

[Chris J W]

Why are you glad you went for a 57ft boat ?

 

Well, I live on her full-time, I intend to go as far as I can, and I'm glad I took the challenge on to handle something this large from scratch.

 

If my plans didn't include the shorter-locked parts of the system I'd've quite happily gone for longer.

[cheshire~rose]

Having never owned a boat myself I tend to just take the tiller on anyone elses boat when they allow me to and I have handled all different sizes and styles over a period of a few years.

I have hired boats that were "mid length" as well as having handled various other craft at around the 50- 65 foot range and have lots of experience of handling a small (30') boat.

 

There ARE a few benefits to handling a small boat, you can more it almost anywhere, share locks with other small boats and no need to find a winding point to turn around!

 

Generally I find a larger boat a bit easier to steer. They tend not to be so erratic and I feel the weight of them actually assists in their handling as they can be less affected by sudden outside influences like by wash currents and in some circumstances wind. I also find it much easier to line a bigger boat up for entering locks or going through bridge holes as there is more roof length to use as a guide to how straight you have the boat.

 

I also tend to find that the way a boat handles is often much more about its build than its length. I have handled similar size boats which handle completely differently.

 

The boat I have found to handle the very best of any boat I have ever taken the tiller of was Allan's (Keeping up). It takes a short time to adjust to the fact that it is so much longer than what I had been used to (after regular use of a 30' boat) but she swims beautifully and is just so responsive. I tend to think that is more down to the build quality than the size though.

 

It would be very interesting to hear other peoples views on this.

[Windjammer]

I think it depends on what you need from a boat.

 

If you liveaboard or even spend large chunks of time, then the living space of a longer boat is good.

 

However, if you only want a boat as a weekend getaway or for high days and holidays, then small can be beautiful.

 

A lot of costs on boats are pro-rata to length. Moorings, blacking, drydock, insurance ?, licence, etc

 

Also, its easier to maintain a shorter boat - quicker to clean, black, paint, etc.

 

I have a Northern-max narrowboat too, but the benefits of a smaller boat for some aren't wasted on me.

[Chertsey]

When I was learning to drive, my driving instructor said I should get myself a small car to start with. As things turned out, I got a medium sized (Mitzi L300) white van. Best possible thing for a small, nervous, new driver - great visibility, everyone can see you, and they tend to get out of the way. Having subsequently tried a small car (and been ignored, and cut up, and driven into), I would never have one again. (I now have two of these)

 

The same doesn't quite go for boats, but...

 

I haven't yet had the chance to try a proper length boat, but have had a 32 and a 54 footer. I was surprised to find the longer boat quite a lot easier to steer - probably for all the reasons Cheshire Rose mentions. But there might have been a lot of other factors involved too and I don't suppose length is the most significant.

[carlt]

I'm not convinced size (or length) matters.

 

The daintiest boat (bigger than 27', that is) I have ever steered was the motorised, 72' big ricky butty, Taplow. She would steer at a near standstill, turn in her own length and steer in reverse, too.

 

The lifeboat, at 51', is, with her props protected by tunnels, an absolute pig to steer, you can't even "skid-steer" using the two engines. I've never been on a more stable boat, at sea, though. On her swinging mooring, at Aldeburgh, she felt like she was sat on the shingle, despite having 25' of wet stuff under her.

 

There is so much variation, even from the same builders, that it is so hard to judge. Hardy steers like a 30 footer and Gort steers like a supertanker, both 72' Nursers,

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a Northern-max narrowboat too, but the benefits of a smaller boat for some aren't wasted on me.

I find myself drawn towards a shorter cruiser, to have inland, though largely because of the difference in licence and mooring fees.

[Chris J W]

I think it depends on what you need from a boat.

 

If you liveaboard or even spend large chunks of time, then the living space of a longer boat is good.

 

However, if you only want a boat as a weekend getaway or for high days and holidays, then small can be beautiful.

 

A lot of costs on boats are pro-rata to length. Moorings, blacking, drydock, insurance ?, licence, etc

 

Also, its easier to maintain a shorter boat - quicker to clean, black, paint, etc.

 

I have a Northern-max narrowboat too, but the benefits of a smaller boat for some aren't wasted on me.

 

I see where you're coming from now, and sorry if I appeared to be "adversiarial" on the other thread.

 

The cost bits, yes, I'll certainly grant you, but not really agreed about the 'time on board as a ratio to length" aspect - but I see your point.

 

 

With "Jean Margaret" being the only boat I've handled for a length of time in very differing conditions (oh, and one hire boat I helped moor-up that handled over the 500 yards I had control like an underpowered, under-ruddered, bath tub) I'd quite like to play with a smaller, 'nippier' (!!), GRP (or similar) just to play "spot the difference."

[Hairy-Neil]

I was surprised to find the longer boat quite a lot easier to steer .....

 

The hardest boat I've ever had the pleasure of steering was a 26 foot, 12 seater trip boat. It needed constant correction to keep it on course. Loose concentration for a second and it could completely change direction. However, with 'Nuneaton', when loaded, you could leave the tiller, go down into the back cabin, make yourself a sandwich and come back up to the tiller, still on course.

[Keeping Up]

The hardest boat I've ever had the pleasure of steering was a 26 foot, 12 seater trip boat. It needed constant correction to keep it on course. Loose concentration for a second and it could completely change direction. However, with 'Nuneaton', when loaded, you could leave the tiller, go down into the back cabin, make yourself a sandwich and come back up to the tiller, still on course.

I've proved on several occasions that on Keeping Up (which is 67 ft long and as others have said handles beautifully, mainly because of the nice underwater shape) there is time to go to the kitchen and fill the kettle and put it on the gas, or to take the kettle off the gas and pour a cup of coffee - although you have to sprint back to the tiller without the coffee and come back for it after a quick course correction, otherwise you spill most of it.

 

I've also proved on a couple of occasions that there isn't enough time to visit the bathroom and answer a call of nature, unless you slow down and drift along in neutral. And of course this is one operation that once you have started, you really have to finish even if the boat is heading straight for the trees.

[Hairy-Neil]

I've also proved on a couple of occasions that there isn't enough time to visit the bathroom and answer a call of nature, unless you slow down and drift along in neutral.

 

When you're the only one on a loaded butty on a ling line you don't have that option, and besides, they don't have a bathroom in any case......

[Peter R]

This probably dosen't help the debate, but...

 

The first boat I drove was a 57' hire boat, which I started by nearly driving up the bank, but once i'd got the hang of it was fine. My first boat was 30', the current one is 45'. The 45' handles better (especially in reverse), but how much of this is due to length and how much hull design I don't know.

 

However, even with the 45' I can't leave the helm for more than a few seconds without throttling back and hooking on the tiller strings, as the tiller gets knocked over by the prop wash and it then drives up the bank!

 

Peter

[bridgit]

I thought I was o.k at steering until we got our new ( to us) 70'. Had a 60' before, and its like being a novice again, so much heavier, harder to moor, deeper draft, slow to come out of locks a different ball game altogether. Im sure I,ll get there in the end.

[nbtafelberg]

I want straight from zero boating to a 70 foot boat. No problems at all - Mind you I did get some tuition from another boater first. Which was amazingly helpful and he had a 70 as well.

[Machpoint005]

I suspect that ease of steering is less to do with the length of the boat, and more to do with the design of the sharp end and the swim. Egret is 48ft and keeps going in a straight line unless you tell it otherwise.

 

Another possible advantage of a rather shorter boat is that it could be less susceptible to side winds - but again, this might be more a function of cabin design. I doubt that anyone has ever put a narrowboat model side-on in a wind tunnel, though!

 

Ian

[Chris-B]

I want straight from zero boating to a 70 foot boat. No problems at all - Mind you I did get some tuition from another boater first. Which was amazingly helpful and he had a 70 as well.

 

 

Absolutly NO COMMENT at all

[Chris Pink]

However, even with the 45' I can't leave the helm for more than a few seconds without throttling back and hooking on the tiller strings, as the tiller gets knocked over by the prop wash and it then drives up the bank!

 

I've never known any boat go in a straight line in gear. If you put them in neutral most boats will go the way they they were going because the rudder is then pulled along and tends to stay straight.

 

There will be a bit of a tendency, or wind, in this case, aim for the bank opposite and be quick about putting the kettle on.

[Nickhlx]

In the next few weeks I will be asked to commit to the new-build... Length we are looking at is about 62 foot and it will be a Reeves hull - what hull shapes / tips can people suggest to incorporate for ease of steering / handling ?

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

[carlt]

In the next few weeks I will be asked to commit to the new-build... Length we are looking at is about 62 foot and it will be a Reeves hull - what hull shapes / tips can people suggest to incorporate for ease of steering / handling ?

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

Well a Reeves hull is a pretty good start.

 

They do a good hull.

[stubbs]

first boat we took out was a 60 footer and didnt have to much trouble with it we borrowed a friends 30 footer for a couple of weeks and i could not get the hang of it

[saltysplash]

first boat we took out was a 60 footer and didnt have to much trouble with it we borrowed a friends 30 footer for a couple of weeks and i could not get the hang of it

 

 

I think it has more to do with reactions......on a longer boat the turns and manouvres appear to be slower, on a short boat that can turn on a sixpence, your continually making corrections as they take, and appear to take a nano second to react to any manouvre

[Chris J W]

After taking "Jean Margaret" (57") from Trevor to Llangollen yesterday I was crying for a shorter boat at times! How the hell you get a full length boat down there without snapping it in half is beyond me!

 

I know Baldock said it was down to something called 'skill' ... but I think there's really a secret, non-bendy, deep watered, passage down that is only know to a cabal of ex-workingboat owners

[JohnSallyCharlie]

Hi All

 

We went for 70ft for our first boat as we live on it.

 

As for the handling we never have much of a problem even in the wind.

 

All we do is take our time...........

 

Peace

[Digitalis]

obviously size does matter, I started with a long one where I learnt all I know,

the new one is a little shorter but its the way you use it " isn't it ?"

[bargeeboy]

Without a shadow of doubt The larger the better.

 

I moved a 45' boat yesterday on the Erewash and it was all over the place. (For Sale Barry Jenkins Semi Trad)

 

You were continuing to correct and dare I say I've been at it a long time.

 

Off to move Kangaroo down to Norbury hence up early.

 

Anybody around Audlem with a windlass about 9 am ??

 

Have a nice day.

Edited June 4, 2008 by bargeeboy