The Roundabout Island (BCN)

[rogher]

I’ve recently visited the C&RT Birmingham Canal navigations page and noticed a photo of the roundabout island at Deep Cuttings / Old Turn Junction. It made me wonder if there was any convention as to which side one should pass this obstacle? I think I’ve usually taken the shortest / easiest route, not keeping to the right, so was that wrong? 

[Heartland]

It has to be considered that the island was put in place initially as a wartime safety issue and was later "improved" by BW.

I am trying to recall how easy it is to pass around it, having never tried myself. As to the gauging Islands on the New Main Line there is also the issue of which side to pass, I suspect

 

[agg221]

4 minutes ago, Heartland said:

It has to be considered that the island was put in place initially as a wartime safety issue and was later "improved" by BW.

I am trying to recall how easy it is to pass around it, having never tried myself. As to the gauging Islands on the New Main Line there is also the issue of which side to pass, I suspect

 

I have taken boats round the roundabout (for no other reason than because you can!) It's fairly easy to get Oates (38') round in one but a 70' hire boat was, as I recall, rather more challenging.

 

With the gauging islands it is definitely deeper on one side than the other for most of them, but which side is deeper and which is shallower is not as predictable as it could be. It's mostly the offside that is easier to navigate but there is one where it is the other way round, but I can't remember which. We do get through either side eventually, with much pushing.

 

Alec

Edited December 28, 2024 by agg221

[rogher]

36 minutes ago, agg221 said:

 It's mostly the offside that is easier to navigate

The "offside" will depend on your direction of travel (?)

unless you are suggesting that Sod's Law ensures that you will mostly choose the wrong one!

[IanM]

10 minutes ago, rogher said:

The "offside" will depend on your direction of travel (?)

unless you are suggesting that Sod's Law ensures that you will mostly choose the wrong one!

 

The offside is the non-towpath side.  However not necessarily helpful in this case as the main line was built with towpaths on each side (although it is normally just one in use now). 

[rogher]

3 minutes ago, IanM said:

 

The offside is the non-towpath side.  However not necessarily helpful in this case as the main line was built with towpaths on each side (although it is normally just one in use now). 

Good point, and thanks for clarifying. That would be contrary to what I'd expect (the deeper channel to be on the towpath side). So Sod retains his influence!

I was unsure how to describe passing on a particular side, anyway. Is "Passing by my Port side" the same as "Passing to Starboard" for instance? 

[nicknorman]

To answer your question on the “roundabout”, don’t treat it like a road roundabout, just take the shortest/easiest route.

 

For the canals most people talk about left and right rather than port and starboard. For most of us there is no virtue in using yachty nautical terms!

[5239]

2 minutes ago, rogher said:

Good point, and thanks for clarifying. That would be contrary to what I'd expect (the deeper channel to be on the towpath side). So Sod retains his influence!

I was unsure how to describe passing on a particular side, anyway. Is "Passing by my Port side" the same as "Passing to Starboard" for instance? 

I generally choose the side with least vegetation overhanging,

if there’s owt coming the other way I pass on the right,

I think Bloomfield Junction has the better channel towpath side

[agg221]

9 minutes ago, rogher said:

The "offside" will depend on your direction of travel (?)

unless you are suggesting that Sod's Law ensures that you will mostly choose the wrong one!

I was meaning 'non-towpath side'. I originally tried to describe this but deleted it as the BCN New Main Line is not simple in this respect - some has a towpath both sides, some did have but no longer does. It is still a case of Sod's Law generally applies though!

Alec

12 minutes ago, 5239 said:

I think Bloomfield Junction has the better channel towpath side

Bromford Stop is definitely better on the offside (northern) as the silt coming down Spon Lane locks tends to end up on the towpath side of the main line. Dunkirk Stop is also definitely better on the offside (northern) side. It's the others which catch me out!

 

Alec

 

 

[spud]

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

It has to be considered that the island was put in place initially as a wartime safety issue and was later "improved" by BW.

I am trying to recall how easy it is to pass around it, having never tried myself. As to the gauging Islands on the New Main Line there is also the issue of which side to pass, I suspect

 

'improved' in the winter of 1984 - 85 as the first stage of the ruinisation of central birminghams canals, but they might as well have removed it as it now has no purpose - apart from being a feature for prats on boats to go round and round because they think it makes them look good

[5239]

42 minutes ago, spud said:

'improved' in the winter of 1984 - 85 as the first stage of the ruinisation of central birminghams canals, but they might as well have removed it as it now has no purpose - apart from being a feature for prats on boats to go round and round because they think it makes them look good

Anyone got any photos prior to ‘84?

a very quick google hasn’t revealed any images

[David Mack]

1 minute ago, 5239 said:

Anyone got any photos prior to ‘84?

a very quick google hasn’t revealed any images

It used to be a lot larger and potato-shaped.

 

1978:

 

[pearley]

13 minutes ago, 5239 said:

Anyone got any photos prior to ‘84?

a very quick google hasn’t revealed any images

 

[David Mack]

Originally installed in the mouth of the Newhall Branch with gates either side, to protect the rail lines into New Street, which pass below the canal just to the north of the junction, in the event of a direct bomb hit.

From the 1955 OS map:

The current island is closer to  the centre of the junction.

 

[5239]

But why take the trouble to rebuild it?

 

I could ask why remove it at all. 

[Victor Vectis]

3 hours ago, agg221 said:

I have taken boats round the roundabout (for no other reason than because you can!) It's fairly easy to get Oates (38') round in one but a 70' hire boat was, as I recall, rather more challenging.

Hmmmm.......

A variation of doing doughnuts at Tixall Wide or Bramwith Jn. perhaps?

 

3 hours ago, agg221 said:

 

With the gauging islands it is definitely deeper on one side than the other for most of them, but which side is deeper and which is shallower is not as predictable as it could be. It's mostly the offside that is easier to navigate but there is one where it is the other way round, but I can't remember which. We do get through either side eventually, with much pushing.

 

Alec

I've had trouble getting through the towpath side at the bottom of Spon Lane the last couple of times we've been that way.

(Didn't want to try the offside due to overhanging vegitation and a nice new paintjob)

[5239]

4 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

Hmmmm.......

A variation of doing doughnuts at Tixall Wide or Bramwith Jn. perhaps?

 

I've had trouble getting through the towpath side at the bottom of Spon Lane the last couple of times we've been that way.

(Didn't want to try the offside due to overhanging vegitation and a nice new paintjob)

Yes that’s Bromford where the offside tends to over hang,

it’s all pretty filthy and nasty around there,

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by 5239
Bromford dunno why I keep saying Bloomfield

[Paul C]

Having driven a 58' narrowboat between all 6 permutations (the 3 combinations of route in both directions), it is difficult/impossible to do it any other way than the shortest/most direct route.

 

It is similar to mini roundabouts with a 30' rigid truck - if the roundabout is impossible to negotiate due to the size of the vehicle, you can ignore the painted central area and drive over it. (Highway Code Rule 188) (except it can be interpreted as, with a large boat at Old Turn, you can go the "wrong" way round if you need to).

[agg221]

1 hour ago, Victor Vectis said:

I've had trouble getting through the towpath side at the bottom of Spon Lane the last couple of times we've been that way.

(Didn't want to try the offside due to overhanging vegitation and a nice new paintjob)

It's definitely easier at that one on the offside. We got royally stuck in the silt coming out of Spon Lane during the last BCN Challenge and were kindly extracted by a random passing American. I stepped off using his gunwhales to do some flushing and the only way back on was towpath side. There were several boats in the distance (I think the motor plus Cyprus was one of them) but they caught us up by the time we had pushed/pulled our way past the toll island. They went to the offside and had far fewer issues.

 

1 hour ago, Victor Vectis said:

Hmmmm.......

A variation of doing doughnuts at Tixall Wide or Bramwith Jn. perhaps?

Somewhat, but at rather lower speeds.

44 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Having driven a 58' narrowboat between all 6 permutations (the 3 combinations of route in both directions), it is difficult/impossible to do it any other way than the shortest/most direct route.

From memory (sometime in the mid-1990s) I think we kind of did all three in one manoeuvre, essentially winding coming out from Gas Street, nosing into the Newhall Branch, reversing onto the main line and then forwards to moor at Brindley Place.

3 hours ago, spud said:

it now has no purpose - apart from being a feature for prats on boats to go round and round because they think it makes them look good

I thought it was pretty harmless entertainment to see if I could get round in one without touching the sides, but each to their own.

Alec

[nicknorman]

46 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Having driven a 58' narrowboat between all 6 permutations (the 3 combinations of route in both directions), it is difficult/impossible to do it any other way than the shortest/most direct route.

 

It is similar to mini roundabouts with a 30' rigid truck - if the roundabout is impossible to negotiate due to the size of the vehicle, you can ignore the painted central area and drive over it. (Highway Code Rule 188) (except it can be interpreted as, with a large boat at Old Turn, you can go the "wrong" way round if you need to).

 

So your advice is to drive the boat straight over it? I guess it might work if you had a good run up to gain plenty of speed.

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, rogher said:

The "offside" will depend on your direction of travel (?)

unless you are suggesting that Sod's Law ensures that you will mostly choose the wrong one!

But which is the off side, most has a  towpath both sides on the New Main Line 

[David Schweizer]

6 hours ago, IanM said:

 

The offside is the non-towpath side.  However not necessarily helpful in this case as the main line was built with towpaths on each side (although it is normally just one in use now). 

 

Back in the 1960's, the older working boatmen that I knew, referred to the non towpath side as the outside, and the towpath side as the inside. Probably originating from the days when narrowboats were hauled by Horses or Mules.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by David Schweizer

[Paul C]

58 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

So your advice is to drive the boat straight over it? I guess it might work if you had a good run up to gain plenty of speed.

Ha ha

[agg221]

19 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But which is the off side, most has a  towpath both sides on the New Main Line 

A surprising amount of it doesn't any more, at least not still functional. Heading from Birmingham to Wolverhampton, it has a fully functional towpath on both sides until somewhere after Smethwick Junction. By Galton Tunnel there is only a towpath on the northern side. By Bromford Junction there is only a towpath on the southern side, but by the Factory flight it's back to only on the northern side again. I can't exactly place where it swaps at each point, or whether there are any sections between Smethwick and Factory where there is still a functional towpath on both sides?

 

Alec

[Rob-M]

Towpath both sides passing Albion and Dudley Port junctions, can't recall how far either side it continues though.