A Broads Cruiser?

[Tony1]

20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am not so sure about that, but not the Broom Mike is talking about. Broom made Broads version (35ft Skipper I think) that had drop sides to a raised wheelhouse and folding front and back screens. I think the inland spec. one would have had a BMC 1.5 or a Perkins 4-107 or 4-108. I doubt that its air draft when folded would be much different to the first boat and the second one when that one was slid back and screens folded.

 

Still draughty in the wheelhouse, though.

 

Thanks Tony, I do recall seeing some BMC powered Brooms, and they are lovely, lovely boats. 

But I think they are only about 10.5 ft wide. And if it was feasible, I would like to have that extra 2ft of width you get in the wider beam types.  

I suspect I can rule out the type with the higher steering position. It must be a right pain going through bridge holes when you have to squat down and can barely raise your head above the roof line. 

It seems much better to be sat at front, with a good view ahead, and real shelter from the elements. Cruising in the cold and rain would not be uncomfortable at all, at least until you got moored and had to come out!

 

[magnetman]

Lavac is a clever design but the seals on the lid and the bit you sit on also get a bit dirty so its quite high maintenance. I made a special little cistern to separate the flush water. Solenoid valve and float switch. It worked lovely. 

 

Not a clean loo though unless the discharge is directly downwards.

 

 

[Tony1]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

They are not very clean loos. Joker valve (non return valve) in the Pump tends to leak 

 

 

 

You're telling me Mike's glorious looking loo is actually a festering pit of filth? 

Tut tut, Mike. Whatever next...

 

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Tony, I do recall seeing some BMC powered Brooms, and they are lovely, lovely boats. 

But I think they are only about 10.5 ft wide. And if it was feasible, I would like to have that extra 2ft of width you get in the wider beam types.  

I suspect I can rule out the type with the higher steering position. It must be a right pain going through bridge holes when you have to squat down and can barely raise your head above the roof line. 

It seems much better to be sat at front, with a good view ahead, and real shelter from the elements. Cruising in the cold and rain would not be uncomfortable at all, at least until you got moored and had to come out!

 

Caribbean cruiser. Get a rear view camera and screen. 

[Bacchus]

one of my old boats is on the duck at the moment -( 44' Bounty ) - when she was in my stewardship around a decade ago, she was in original hire-boat configuration with three bedrooms, two bogs, a big kitchen, and a big lounge. I was planning to live on her whilst rebuilding my house because she had enough room for me, the cat, the bird, and the bairn, but that would have been as a static with permanent shore-power. Not sure that I would have liked to cruise her through the winter (although I had a very nice New Year's day party on her with a dozen or so people basically cruising a drawing room up and down eating sausage rolls and having glasses of something.

 

I don't think cruising in confined spaces would be much fun - the front steering takes a bit of getting used to - but great for the intended environment of the Thames or Broads, and the cat had her own bathroom, which was nice. that particular one had had a very sweet little Nanni dropped in in lieu of the BMC

 

If you do go looking, look out for the encapsulated wooden stringers on both the Bounty and the Frank Wilds which give the boat its monocoque strength... until they rot

 

A good friend lives on a Wilds 40, again on a static mooring, and he raised the roof by 18" and added a "wheelhouse" creating, what he called, the world's first Broads Trawler (c:

 

[bizzard]

Most Broads cruisers have raw water cooled engines with no actual silencer, just cooling water ejected from the exhaust. They can make an awfully loud rasping noise from the exhaust pipe at the stern end which would send anyone moored behind bonkers.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

 

That is the Palace of Versailles of boat bogs.

Emperor Claudius himself could hardly have asked for more

 

 

Did Emperor Claudius live in the P de V then?

 

I'm not as good at history as you I don't think....

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Most Broads cruisers have raw water cooled engines with no actual silencer, just cooling water ejected from the exhaust. They can make an awfully loud rasping noise from the exhaust pipe at the stern end which would send anyone moored behind bonkers.

 

I hate to question that, all those we bought into the fleet had some kind of silencer in the exhausts. They do make a horrible noise when the raw water injection fails.

[Tony1]

57 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

one of my old boats is on the duck at the moment -( 44' Bounty ) 

 

I don't think cruising in confined spaces would be much fun - the front steering takes a bit of getting used to - but great for the intended environment of the Thames or Broads,

 

 

Thanks for the info, that's really interesting. 

I suspected that a 45ft by 12ft boat might be a handful in the many narrow spots on the canals. So I was leaning more towards the smaller end- maybe 35ft. 

If you dont mind me asking - was it just the 12ft beam that made it a bit tricky in tight spots? 

Would life be significantly easier in a boat that was only 35ft by 12ft?  

I ask because if its the beam that causes the most hassles, I'd consider a 10ft beam Broom or similar type.

Basically I'd prefer whatever feels the most spacious, but also is the least stress to drive on canals like the L+L. 

 

 

[bizzard]

21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I hate to question that, all those we bought into the fleet had some kind of silencer in the exhausts. They do make a horrible noise when the raw water injection fails.

I had one moored behind me, a Carribean type built in Brundle, Nanni engine, no silencer just the usual sea boat non return type water box exhaust outlet. Not only was the exhaust note staccato but also combined with the drumming of the grp shell of the transom.   And no weed box hatch, so would need frogmans suit, snorkel. A pole with a pike on the end to clear the prop would be a struggle.

Edited October 16, 2024 by bizzard

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Bacchus said:

 

A good friend lives on a Wilds 40, again on a static mooring, and he raised the roof by 18" and added a "wheelhouse" creating, what he called, the world's first Broads Trawler (c:

 

Thats not the Chuffalumps at Kingston is it? I know they had the top raised at some stage. 

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Most Broads cruisers have raw water cooled engines with no actual silencer, just cooling water ejected from the exhaust. They can make an awfully loud rasping noise from the exhaust pipe at the stern end which would send anyone moored behind bonkers.

Barking. 

46 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks for the info, that's really interesting. 

I suspected that a 45ft by 12ft boat might be a handful in the many narrow spots on the canals. So I was leaning more towards the smaller end- maybe 35ft. 

If you dont mind me asking - was it just the 12ft beam that made it a bit tricky in tight spots? 

Would life be significantly easier in a boat that was only 35ft by 12ft?  

I ask because if its the beam that causes the most hassles, I'd consider a 10ft beam Broom or similar type.

Basically I'd prefer whatever feels the most spacious, but also is the least stress to drive on canals like the L+L. 

 

 

Steering from the front with a wheel is a lot more awkward than steering from the back with a tiller when on canals. You can't see where the Boat is. 

[Tony1]

59 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Did Emperor Claudius live in the P de V then?

 

I'm not as good at history as you I don't think....

 

 

Ah yes. What's happened there is I've given the wrong impression, old fruit.

What I was trying to convey is that your marvellous toilet is the paragon of toilet builder's art- the Palace of Versailles of toilets, if you will.

A toilet recognised throughout history for its opulence and its grandeur, which is why it brough to mind the famous Palace.

Dear old Claudius lived slightly earlier than that, of course- but I would like to suggest that, as one of the most pampered and opulent rulers, even he would happily use this majestic toilet. 

I was not trying to convey the idea that Mr Claudius actually lived at the Palace.

By Jove, explaining a silly flight of fancy can be a laborious thing. Now I need a lie down and a stiff drink.

 

[GUMPY]

The longer and thinner the boat the better they handle. Short fat boats are a pig to steer.

Parglena was 50x12 and was a pig at times, we added another 11ft to become 61x12 and the handling was transformed for the better.

Why anyone would want to live in a bathtub is beyond my ken when things like THIS are for sale🤔

[Naughty Cal]

We very seriously considered living on a Broads cruiser for a while and it is only because a boat of the sort we wanted didn't come up for sale that we didn't. We ended up moving house instead.

 

Our first boat of choice was a Alpha 35 centre cockpit like the one below:

 

https://www.richardsonsboatingholidays.co.uk/all-boats/viscount-2/

 

We hired this particular boat out of season and found that the space suited us well. The sliding cockpit not being over the living area meant that there was no draught in the main areas which kept toasty warm with minimal heating. The kitchen running the length of the boat meant it was roomy with lots of prep space and space for domestic sized appliances. The forward cabin was huge with ensuite shower room but the one thing we did find was that the large areas of glass and few opening windows meant it got very hot even in October.

 

On the back of hiring that one we changed our choice to a Alpha 35 Highliner. Based on the same 35ft hull but with a different superstructure. 

 

https://www.richardsonsboatingholidays.co.uk/all-boats/swan-ranger/

 

Again we hired to see how the layout worked for us and we loved this boat. The bow cabin kept to a much better temperature having less glass. Headroom was less due to the curve of the roof but it was still more than enough. The galley was squeezed if anything. This boat had radiator central heating which seemed to work really well. If anything it took longer to react that the blow air heating we were used too but it did the job. No sliding roof on this version so the cabin kept toasty warm. Despite having the flybridge with the screens folded the air draft was still only around 7ft which would have suited us.

 

One thing to watch with these hire boats is tank sizes. They are only designed for a weeks holiday so water tanks, fuels tanks and holding tanks are tiny. All of which were on our to replace list. On the plus side there is usually ample room to fit bigger tanks and vast amounts of unused space for additional storage.

 

Had a suitable boat come for sale when we were looking I do say we would be living on one now. As it happens we have still not seen a 35 Highliner come up for sale.

[pig]

9 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Now I need a lie down and a stiff drink.

 

Other way round, Shirley?

[Tony1]

7 minutes ago, pig said:

Other way round, Shirley?

 

The old ones are the best - sometimes! 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

9 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

Steering from the front with a wheel is a lot more awkward than steering from the back with a tiller when on canals. You can't see where the Boat is. 

 

But you get used to whatever you're steering. I steered Nuneham a few times through some tight spaces, through bridges and into locks and you just have to remember that most of it is behind you. The wheel is under the green cover in front of the big white chimney

 

 

On the OP's point of potentially damaging a Broads cruiser, most are fairly well fendered with wooden rubbing strakes down the sides, but of course as with any GRP boat you have to be careful. I'm always a bit suspicious of any boater with a boat made of any hull material who bashes their boat around. The lack of care and mechanical sensitivity bothers me.

1 hour ago, GUMPY said:

The longer and thinner the boat the better they handle. Short fat boats are a pig to steer.

Parglena was 50x12 and was a pig at times, we added another 11ft to become 61x12 and the handling was transformed for the better.

Why anyone would want to live in a bathtub is beyond my ken when things like THIS are for sale🤔

 

Well it depends on what you mean by "pig to steer"? 

 

My 57ft x 12ft boat turns almost within its own length which is great for manoeuvring in tight spaces and it's much easier to turn it around on a river against a current than most narrowboats which just get swept sideways. So a long thin boat can also be a pig to steer in some situations. On the other hand on my boat if you take your eye off the canal for a few seconds while travelling in a straight line and you'll be in the bushes. 

 

Short and fat taken to it's logical extreme is a coracle which is very easy to turn but very difficult to keep in a straight line.

[Bacchus]

10 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks for the info, that's really interesting. 

I suspected that a 45ft by 12ft boat might be a handful in the many narrow spots on the canals. So I was leaning more towards the smaller end- maybe 35ft. 

If you dont mind me asking - was it just the 12ft beam that made it a bit tricky in tight spots? 

Would life be significantly easier in a boat that was only 35ft by 12ft?  

I ask because if its the beam that causes the most hassles, I'd consider a 10ft beam Broom or similar type.

Basically I'd prefer whatever feels the most spacious, but also is the least stress to drive on canals like the L+L. 

 

 

 

I only took Starlight a short way up the K and A in Reading, but don't know if being on the 37 would make a significant difference unless the Langollen is very twisty? What makes it tricky in tight spots is having all that boat swinging around behind you. It brings home the rear-steer effect that you don't notice when you're on the stern. All you see from the bow is the angle that you're looking at the landscape change slightly, but the stern had shifted 30' across!

 

As mentioned up-thread, there's no reason why you couldn't fit a helm by the little after-deck, maybe even jury-rig a tiller, then I think handling would be fine. The space is wonderful, but I am not sure about the practicality.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

Thats not the Chuffalumps at Kingston is it? I know they had the top raised at some stage. 

 

 

Not Chuffalumps, no, about three boats upstream from her. You can see her from the river - no windows down the side, but the entire bow has been glazed to maximise river views for a stern-on mooring! Lovely living space for a permanent mooring, but I don't think you'd want to cruise her - not that that's an option anyway, there's a washing machine where the engine used to be...

[haggis]

Tony, if space is the problem. why not buy a longer narrow boat?

[Bee]

I Have steered these broads type cruisers a bit. The fragility of them is unsettling, not so much the underwater hull, they seem pretty tough but the whole superstructure/deck/roof and topsides. There are large flattish areas that don't work well with fibreglass and anything that is fixed tends to radiate cracks and leak or become loose. If you look at the rubbing strakes - usually rubber - they almost always suffer from damage and pull out of the hull, I have nothing against GRP, it is a very good boatbuilding material but I personally would not go for a broads type cruiser. jumping on and off from locks and the inevitable contact with the hard edges of canals is not really the best place for them.

[Bacchus]

44 minutes ago, Bee said:

 large flattish areas

 

My friends very kindly nicknamed Starlight "the aircraft carrier"...

 

She did have a few battle scars but was fairly robust - the number of hard knocks she must have had smacking into bridges in 20+ years being hired frequently to stag and hen parties is testimony to her strength, and the roof didn't seem to flex or creak with my 16 stone wandering about on it.

 

 

[GUMPY]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

Well it depends on what you mean by "pig to steer"? 

A boat that if you have a slight lapse of concentration has you into the bushes.

[Naughty Cal]

21 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

A boat that if you have a slight lapse of concentration has you into the bushes.

Broads cruisers have a decent keel which keeps them going in a straight line if you let go of the wheel.

[Stilllearning]

17 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Eh? What on earth are you talking about? 

 

Get about a 1975 model, the very epitome of cravat-wearing old skool class. The Bentley of the waterways...

 

I mean, look at this bathroom in one, for example. Avocado - the height of ablutorary fashion and style, don'tcher think?

 

 

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/broom-ocean-37-for-sale/619699

 

 

 

 

"Serviced regularly " "one engine seized".

Nuff said.

[Tony1]

10 hours ago, haggis said:

Tony, if space is the problem. why not buy a longer narrow boat?

 

It may never happen Ms H tbh. It's just the odd thought that I wonder about sometimes. So I thought I'd see there was any interest in it as a discussion question, and to flag up any major problems.

And I'm glad I did. I've already heard of at least half a dozen major issues, that have to be sorted for the boat to even be habitable - so its just as likely not to happen. 

I do have a preference to live in a bigger-feeling space. And so for me, the narrowboat width of 7ft has always been a big negative, in terms of being comfortable within your living space. Its worth the sacrifice of space now, whilst all of the places are new and interesting. But someday the novelty will reduce, and then the desire for more space might take over as the top priority.