How much to electrify a small barge?

[Ferg]

So I'm thinking of buying a small engineless barge (15m X 4m) and fitting it with an electric motor.

 

Would anyone have a rough idea of how much a motor/solar/inverter setup might cost for such a project?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Ferg said:

So I'm thinking of buying a small engineless barge (15m X 4m) and fitting it with an electric motor.

 

Would anyone have a rough idea of how much a motor/solar/inverter setup might cost for such a project?

 

 

Don't forget the generator for winter months. being a wide beam you will obviously get more panels on it than a narrowboat, but I very much doubt it will be enough for  domestic use and propulsion October to March.

[Ferg]

Good point thanks. 

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, Ferg said:

So I'm thinking of buying a small engineless barge (15m X 4m) and fitting it with an electric motor.

 

Would anyone have a rough idea of how much a motor/solar/inverter setup might cost for such a project?

 

I don't think we have enough information to even guess. 

 

1) Are you doing the work yourself?

2) Docking it and altering the hull to install a stern shaft and propeller is a substantial alteration, likely to cost £ks.

3) @peterboat here did it for buttons by finding second hand batteries, motor etc. @IanD did it the expensive way and spent more on parts than my first house cost, IIRC. 

 

Others will be along with more focussed comments but this should get discussion started

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I don't think we have enough information to even guess. 

 

1) Are you doing the work yourself?

2) Docking it and altering the hull to install a stern shaft and propeller is a substantial alteration, likely to cost £ks.

3) @peterboat here did it for buttons by finding second hand batteries, motor etc. @IanD did it the expensive way and spent more on parts than my first house cost, IIRC. 

 

Others will be along with more focussed comments but this should get discussion started

 

Both @peterboat and @IanD are technically proficient and know what they are doing with secondhand gear and specifying new shiny things respectively. @Ferg, what is your background in this sort of electrical and mechanical engineering?

[Ferg]

I have no background in relevant skills tbh but would like to do what I can obviously.

[Momac]

1 hour ago, Ferg said:

So I'm thinking of buying a small engineless barge (15m X 4m) and fitting it with an electric motor.

 

Would anyone have a rough idea of how much a motor/solar/inverter setup might cost for such a project?

 

 

Not sure I would call that 'small'.

 

As said first task is to establish where it can be hoisted ashore and back in after the work. The size and the weight being considerations.

Also consider how the barge will be moved to the location for lifting out.

 

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Ferg said:

So I'm thinking of buying a small engineless barge (15m X 4m) 

 

Mmm... It doesn't sound that small to me.

[Up-Side-Down]

I've been researching this pretty thoroughly for two retrofits and one new build over the past few months and am just putting my report together for the organisation concerned. For 20-30kW of lithium batteries, the motor and other electrical 'bits' the total price will be in the region of £20K depending on where you source the batteries and who makes them. 

 

I wouldn't at this stage want to put an exact price on the installation but don't expect there to be much change out of £30K assuming you project manage everything. I base this on my own direct experience having almost completed a full retro-fit installation in a 60ft narrowboat employing an electrician to do all the wiring, including 2kW of solar (not included in my estimate above). I just have the electric motor still to install and wire.

 

The cost of a generator is not included but received wisdom (and experience) tells me that if you purchase a cocooned/silenced machine of 7.5 – 9.0kVA, without the word 'marine' in its description, it will cost around £5.5K and almost exactly twice as much if that magic word does appear. Both will do precisely the same thing!

 

You will find that several of the experienced/competent motor suppliers will provide a complete service in that they sell you their motor and everything you need to complete the installation. Plus advice, spec, wiring diagrams, etc. This is, I think, a very positive trend if we want to see the inland waterways decarbonised which, I believe, legislation will formally begin to promote starting in 2025.

 

 

Probably worth adding that if you drive your boat into boatyard and ask them to replace your diesel engine with electric drive, that figure of £30K goes up by around 50% for which there plenty of good (and not so good) reasons! Unlikely to apply in your case as you don't have any means of propulsion already fitted!

Edited August 3 by Up-Side-Down

[Ferg]

2 hours ago, Momac said:

Not sure I would call that 'small'.

 

As said first task is to establish where it can be hoisted ashore and back in after the work. The size and the weight being considerations.

Also consider how the barge will be moved to the location for lifting out.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm looking at barges in France so my perception is likely skewed by the bigger ones there.

2 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

I've been researching this pretty thoroughly for two retrofits and one new build over the past few months and am just putting my report together for the organisation concerned. For 20-30kW of lithium batteries, the motor and other electrical 'bits' the total price will be in the region of £20K depending on where you source the batteries and who makes them. 

 

I wouldn't at this stage want to put an exact price on the installation but don't expect there to be much change out of £30K assuming you project manage everything. I base this on my own direct experience having almost completed a full retro-fit installation in a 60ft narrowboat employing an electrician to do all the wiring, including 2kW of solar (not included in my estimate above). I just have the electric motor still to install and wire.

 

The cost of a generator is not included but received wisdom (and experience) tells me that if you purchase a cocooned/silenced machine of 7.5 – 9.0kVA, without the word 'marine' in its description, it will cost around £5.5K and almost exactly twice as much if that magic word does appear. Both will do precisely the same thing!

 

You will find that several of the experienced/competent motor suppliers will provide a complete service in that they sell you their motor and everything you need to complete the installation. Plus advice, spec, wiring diagrams, etc. This is, I think, a very positive trend if we want to see the inland waterways decarbonised which, I believe, legislation will formally begin to promote starting in 2025.

 

 

Probably worth adding that if you drive your boat into boatyard and ask them to replace your diesel engine with electric drive, that figure of £30K goes up by around 50% for which there plenty of good (and not so good) reasons! Unlikely to apply in your case as you don't have any means of propulsion already fitted!

Thank you for taking the time to write this detailed reply.

 

If I may ask you a question or two.

 

Firstly, considering my limited skills, if I was to buy a complete service from a motor supplier (like the ones you mentioned) do you think I'd be able to install the motor myself (and get an electrician for the wiring)?  

 

And secondly, would you have a rough idea of what sort of range that setup gave you?

Edited August 3 by Ferg

[hider]

Do you know how to cut and drill steel?

Can you weld?

[Ferg]

No to all.

1 minute ago, hider said:

Do you know how to cut and drill steel?

Can you weld?

No to all.

 

I guess that answers my question.

 

Thank you.

Edited August 3 by Ferg

[hider]

1 minute ago, Ferg said:

No to all.

No to all.

Unlikely that you will achieve then I think.

[Ferg]

Just now, hider said:

Unlikely that you will achieve then I think.

Maybe I can hire a welder to do this.

[Paul C]

3 minutes ago, Ferg said:

Maybe I can hire a welder to do this.

 

I can weld and have done car bodywork for friends in the past. Its alright having a fixed task such as "repair the hole in the wheelarch so it passes an MoT" but when the task is "adapt the boat to electric drive" it becomes "vague news" for the breakdown of sub-tasks in hand. Hull modifications? Brackets and bearers for new motor? Anything else? 

 

The easy part is the welding, the hard part is the discovery of what needs to go where, when. Much like, for example, doing an engine conversion in a car whose combination has never been done or documented.

[Ferg]

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

I can weld and have done car bodywork for friends in the past. Its alright having a fixed task such as "repair the hole in the wheelarch so it passes an MoT" but when the task is "adapt the boat to electric drive" it becomes "vague news" for the breakdown of sub-tasks in hand. Hull modifications? Brackets and bearers for new motor? Anything else? 

 

The easy part is the welding, the hard part is the discovery of what needs to go where, when. Much like, for example, doing an engine conversion in a car whose combination has never been done or documented.

Good points thank you. Perhaps this is why a boatyard charges so much for the work.

[Peanut]

If you employ different tradesmen to do different things, no one will accept responsibility for anything, it will always be someone else's fault. You will also be responsible for everything, which is fine if you know what you are doing, but otherwise, using a main contractor seems a good investment.

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, Ferg said:

So I'm thinking of buying a small engineless barge (15m X 4m) and fitting it with an electric motor.

 

Would anyone have a rough idea of how much a motor/solar/inverter setup might cost for such a project?

 

 

I have removed my diesel engine and fitted an electric drive system twice, the first was a Broads cruiser, the second my 57 x 12 widebeam. I collected what I needed over the years, so it wasn't that expensive in reality, thevsale of my engine bought the drive batteries 30 x 36 volts lifepo4s. Honestly unless you really have an engineering background you need to think long and hard about this conversion. I can chatt to you if you want but it not something to be undertaken lightly 

[Onewheeler]

2 hours ago, Ferg said:

Thank you.

 

I'm looking at barges in France so my perception is likely skewed by the bigger ones there.

Thank you for taking the time to write this detailed reply.

I have contemplated an electrical conversion as a thought experiment on our boat in France (see 'for sale', L'Héritage). That has all of the stern gear in place and a huge engine room, so would be perfect for an electric drive with a cocooned generator for charging a large battery bank. With not much more than gut feeling for prices I guessed around £30k for the conversion plus whatever a boatyard would add on for a relatively straightforward job. I felt capable of project managing it, but don't have the inclination.

[Ferg]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I have removed my diesel engine and fitted an electric drive system twice, the first was a Broads cruiser, the second my 57 x 12 widebeam. I collected what I needed over the years, so it wasn't that expensive in reality, thevsale of my engine bought the drive batteries 30 x 36 volts lifepo4s. Honestly unless you really have an engineering background you need to think long and hard about this conversion. I can chatt to you if you want but it not something to be undertaken lightly 

Thank you for the kind offer.

 

I don't have an engineering background unfortunately so perhaps I'm better off hiring a professional for some if not most tasks.

 

Are you happy with your conversions?

44 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

I have contemplated an electrical conversion as a thought experiment on our boat in France (see 'for sale', L'Héritage). That has all of the stern gear in place and a huge engine room, so would be perfect for an electric drive with a cocooned generator for charging a large battery bank. With not much more than gut feeling for prices I guessed around £30k for the conversion plus whatever a boatyard would add on for a relatively straightforward job. I felt capable of project managing it, but don't have the inclination.

Thank you.

 

Do you have experience that would make you a suitable project manager?

2 hours ago, Peanut said:

If you employ different tradesmen to do different things, no one will accept responsibility for anything, it will always be someone else's fault. You will also be responsible for everything, which is fine if you know what you are doing, but otherwise, using a main contractor seems a good investment.

Yes good point although perhaps there are just two persons to oversee - the installer and the electrician?

[Onewheeler]

I have qualified as a PM and am technically experienced in engineering. I've got other priorities now.

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Ferg said:

 

Do you have experience that would make you a suitable project manager?

 

He said that he felt capable of project managing his own conversion, I did not understand that to mean he was up for doing it for others. Anyone with a wide engineering experience, including electrics, would be able to project manage as long as they had access to the required technical information and support.

[LadyG]

Just to go back to original post, is there any reason why OP wants to do a project like this when it's full of risk, I would think that suitable boats might be available.

Don't imagine that the people you employ are going to spend time educating the owner, in my experience they take the money and leave,

Edited August 3 by LadyG

[Ferg]

16 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

I have qualified as a PM and am technically experienced in engineering. I've got other priorities now.

I know I'm just seeing what sort of experience would be required.

8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Just to go back to original post, is there any reason why OP wants to do a project like this when it's full of risk, I would think that suitable boats might be available.

Don't imagine that the people you employ are going to spend time educating the owner, in my experience they take the money and leave,

I'm just looking at a barge I like and it doesn't have an engine so I'm thinking it might be smarter to go the electric route considering the way the world is going.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

20 minutes ago, Ferg said:

I'm just looking at a barge I like and it doesn't have an engine so I'm thinking it might be smarter to go the electric route considering the way the world is going.

What stern gear does it have, if any? Rudder, stern  tube, engine beds? Putting a diesel engine in to a boat with all the above is a relatively simple job that many boat yards could undertake. Doing this as a series hybrid is a task that few yards have experience of yet. For others, they'll be using your boat as a school to learn on, with time delays and mistakes at your expense. You are probably a few years too early with hoping this will be a routine task.