What’s going on in Wigan?

[bizzard]

1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

Yes I think he was OK, but it was much more fun to arrive at the fairly impressive structure with nobody there and have to work out how to get through it in one piece ourselves. And boating is supposed to be about fun, not about following ze orders.

And to cool off with ice creams at the top.

[nicknorman]

Just now, bizzard said:

And to cool off with ice creams at the top.

Unfortunately we were going down at the time... (and back via the Trent)

[jonathanA]

3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Barry, can't remember his surname was on the five rise when we did it, very efficiant chap.

Barry whitelock MBE. Best described as a taciturn Yorkshire man....

[bizzard]

Just now, jonathanA said:

Barry whitelock MBE. Best described as a taciturn Yorkshire man....

That's the chap, we found him quite friendly.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I'm surprised you lived to tell the tale.

 

We had to tell the vlockie at Sutton Stop we didn't need assistance the other day, must be one of the most treacherous locks on the system.

 

Its curious that there never seems to be vollies at Woolhampton Lock on the K&A. There, I think most single handed boaters in particular, really would benefit from and appreciate some assistance.

 

 

[dmr]

We are experienced boaters but we do the Manchester end of the Rochdale twice every year and try really hard to book the volunteer. Having a third person who really knows how to get a boat through locks and let water down etc really helps, and its a chance to chat about canal stuff. I accept that most volunteers are not quite so expert but its still good to have a bit of help and getting more people involved with the canal has to be good. There have only been two occassions when it felt like the lock keepers were taking over (and also not very competent) and this is a problem but it wouyld be sad to reject all volunteers based on a couple of bad ones. Almost all have asked if we want help rather than just getting involved. Exactly the same applies to other boaters (including myself) who offer help when waiting for locks.

[nicknorman]

8 minutes ago, dmr said:

We are experienced boaters but we do the Manchester end of the Rochdale twice every year and try really hard to book the volunteer. Having a third person who really knows how to get a boat through locks and let water down etc really helps, and its a chance to chat about canal stuff. I accept that most volunteers are not quite so expert but its still good to have a bit of help and getting more people involved with the canal has to be good. There have only been two occassions when it felt like the lock keepers were taking over (and also not very competent) and this is a problem but it wouyld be sad to reject all volunteers based on a couple of bad ones. Almost all have asked if we want help rather than just getting involved. Exactly the same applies to other boaters (including myself) who offer help when waiting for locks.

 

I think it depends on the flight. The bit of the Rochdale we have done did seem quite difficult. But when we did the Wigan flight, it was all quite straighforward. We were paired with another boat which definitely helps, and I think this is far more likely to happen on Wigan than on the Rochdale, simply due to the traffic numbers.

[Midnight]

Wigan has always been a hard 4 or 5 hours. We have been up and down several times and have never seen any volunteers. Although it's not been an option for us over the past three years we are hoping it's fourth time lucky when we head back to base this year. It's a shame for those wanting help that C&RT have sacked the WFC, pretty idiotic on the face of it,but we don't yet know the details.  

[jonathanA]

yes thats our experience too - its basically a day ! its definitely easier if you can pair up and its helpful if there are boats ascending and descending.  We usually stop for - lunch in the long pound (77-78 ?) but its not unusual to be left grounded - no leisurely lunches...

 

Hopefully all the work on the gates over the last couple of years will be paying dividends, but not had the chance to see for ourselves yet ! 

 

it would be interesting to hear CRT's side of the story - is it inability to manage volunteers or unmanagable volunteers ?  one would have hoped some sensible compromise could have been reached. 

Edited July 4, 2024 by jonathanA
add vol comment

[Pluto]

In commercial days it took around 2 hours, though you could leave the gates open, with stories of passing a boat in every pool. From the tonnages carried on the canal this may have just been possible in winter, when coal traffic was at its most intense. It took me around 7 hours in the early 1970s, though this was with a short boat, working single handed, and opening and closing both sets of gates.

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Midnight said:

Retired and apparently sadly missed

Not by me

10 hours ago, dmr said:

You mean the bloke who saw an approaching boat, drained the pounds in front of them, then said he knew how to sort things out for a small payment? We've met him twice and he will not be missed 😀

He told a boater I did it, only the boater was a friend of mine

[nicknorman]

37 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Wigan has always been a hard 4 or 5 hours. We have been up and down several times and have never seen any volunteers. Although it's not been an option for us over the past three years we are hoping it's fourth time lucky when we head back to base this year. It's a shame for those wanting help that C&RT have sacked the WFC, pretty idiotic on the face of it,but we don't yet know the details.  

I don't see how you can suggest that it is idiotic when you don't know why they did it. It would seem highly unlikely that they did it without very good reason. And let us bear in mind that they haven't sacked the WFC, they have just sacked one or two individuals.

[Midnight]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I don't see how you can suggest that it is idiotic when you don't know why they did it. It would seem highly unlikely that they did it without very good reason. And let us bear in mind that they haven't sacked the WFC, they have just sacked one or two individuals.

pretty idiotic on the face of it,

 

Try reading it again

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, Midnight said:

pretty idiotic on the face of it,

 

Try reading it again

No I read it the first time. I do not think it is pretty idiotic on the face of it, I am confident that CRT would not have sacked the guys without very good reason. Why would they? If there is very good reason, as seems almost certain, it is not an idiotic action on the face of it.

Edited July 4, 2024 by nicknorman

[magnetman]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

 But it is just a lock flight, albeit not the easiest to operate with limited crew.

 

On the one occasion I did Wigan flight I managed it perfectly easily on my own not another Boat or helper anywhere. 

 

2009. I was 35 and in a 40x9ft saloon launch. Sitting in the same Boat now. a bit older. 

 

What is so difficult about Wigan flight? 

 

As for dismissal presumably the CRT received complaints. 

[Midnight]

37 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No I read it the first time. I do not think it is pretty idiotic on the face of it, I am confident that CRT would not have sacked the guys without very good reason. Why would they? If there is very good reason, as seems almost certain, it is not an idiotic action on the face of it.

Other opinions are available.

 

18 minutes ago, magnetman said:

As for dismissal presumably the CRT received complaints. 

 

Presumably something p1$$ed C&RT off, but to sack some of the a very knowledgable team on the re-opening day and then the others were aggrieved to the point of resigning, it just seems odd. Maybe we should all wait until the whole story emerges before presuming anything further.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2024 by Midnight

[jonathanA]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

What is so difficult about Wigan flight? 

 

As for dismissal presumably the CRT received complaints. 

it used to have handcuff locks on all the paddle gear - a right faff. (still has anti vandal but the easier to operate springloaded type.   obviously all double gates and used to be a lot of leaky gates/cills.  due to mining subsidence some of the locks /gates have shifted a bit meaning some are heavy/awkward to operate.   a couple have (had ?)  chain winches  and/or props to keep the gates open.  So nothing particularly difficult to work out or massively technical. due to the leaks managing water can be an issue - but again common sense and if needed running a bit through from above was all we needed to do.  the real issue is its 23 widebeam locks (for most practical trips) counting a couple of locks before /after the flight itself.  thats all....

[magnetman]

Speculation is always cool. 

 

As volunteers seem to be part of some sort of KPI thing one idly wonders if there is a cutoff point with regards to complaints. 

 

I know Nick is a bit old fashioned but there will be plenty of other Boat owners who despise volunteer lock keepers hijacking their pleasure. 

 

I am one of them but never made a complaint. I was horrified to learn that Marsworth flight has volunteers. It never had this problem when I was ln the canal. Volunteers can completely spoil the day. I go Boating for pleasure as well as living on the Boat. If on the canal I want to do the locks myself please because it is enjoyable. 

 

Admittedly I was younger but have done about 2/3 of the canal system in a various narrow Boats single handed including a 72ft. Also a 57x12ft barge again single handed. Its far easier single handed or with one person who knows the routine than having helpers. 

 

Someone helping is real nuisance because it messes with the rhythm. It can completely spoil what would otherwise be a very pleasurable experience. 

 

I stay on the Thames now as going on the canals is going to be disappointing. 

 

 

 

 

 

I did have a volunteer on Hanwell once so I said 'Can you go and set the next lock please as there is nobody coming'. Blank stare so I walked up and set it myself. 

People who do not understand transiting a flight of locks from the point of view of the Boat and efficiency should not have windlasses. They should just be watching. 

 

In the Hanwell case I know how to go up efficiently and it does not involve having more than one person on the lock which the Boat is in. 

 

Too many cooks. 

[dogless]

Just completed Marwsorth coming downhill, and was surprised to meet a volunteer at the top, who kindly offered to help.

 

That at least gave me the opportunity to walk forward and set the next knowing he would close up ... a huge and appreciated help.

 

I then met two further volunteers (gentleman and a lady) and we continued the same process of them closing up and either Jane or I setting ahead all the way down.

 

No instructions or orders given, just pleasant chat and efficient working, which was terrific thank you to all.

 

When it works it's fabulous. 

 

I also met 'twopints' a former  lurker here ... good to briefly meet you  👍🏻

 

Rog

 

[Midnight]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Speculation is always cool. 

 

As volunteers seem to be part of some sort of KPI thing one idly wonders if there is a cutoff point with regards to complaints. 

 

I know Nick is a bit old fashioned but there will be plenty of other Boat owners who despise volunteer lock keepers hijacking their pleasure. 

 

I am one of them but never made a complaint. I was horrified to learn that Marsworth flight has volunteers. It never had this problem when I was ln the canal. Volunteers can completely spoil the day. I go Boating for pleasure as well as living on the Boat. If on the canal I want to do the locks myself please because it is enjoyable. 

 

Admittedly I was younger but have done about 2/3 of the canal system in a various narrow Boats single handed including a 72ft. Also a 57x12ft barge again single handed. Its far easier single handed or with one person who knows the routine than having helpers. 

 

Someone helping is real nuisance because it messes with the rhythm. It can completely spoil what would otherwise be a very pleasurable experience. 

 

I stay on the Thames now as going on the canals is going to be disappointing. 

 

 

 

 

 

I did have a volunteer on Hanwell once so I said 'Can you go and set the next lock please as there is nobody coming'. Blank stare so I walked up and set it myself. 

People who do not understand transiting a flight of locks from the point of view of the Boat and efficiency should not have windlasses. They should just be watching. 

 

In the Hanwell case I know how to go up efficiently and it does not involve having more than one person on the lock which the Boat is in. 

 

Too many cooks. 

 

 

If I don't want help from a vollie I just tell them I'm okay to do it myself. Only had an issue once with an "It's my lock" response. That was years ago the day after some lame-brain tried to sink us. He insisted on working the paddles so I stood next to him supervising. 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, dogless said:

Just completed Marwsorth coming downhill, and was surprised to meet a volunteer at the top, who kindly offered to help.

 

That at least gave me the opportunity to walk forward and set the next knowing he would close up ... a huge and appreciated help.

 

I then met two further volunteers (gentleman and a lady) and we continued the same process of them closing up and either Jane or I setting ahead all the way down.

 

No instructions or orders given, just pleasant chat and efficient working, which was terrific thank you to all.

 

When it works it's fabulous. 

 

I also met 'twopints' a former  lurker here ... good to briefly meet you  👍🏻

 

Rog

 

That is how I found the Wigan crew worked except they set ahead for us

[magnetman]

One thing people probably don't think about is the potential impact on the younger generations. 

 

If I were to take my teenage kids on a cruise on the canal and there were volunteer lock attendants this could install in the childrens' heads that someone else does the locks. 

 

OK if you don't want the hassle but one would have to ask why are you out Boating if locks are a problem? Surely a caravan would be better. 

 

Do they have volunteer caravan reverse parking assistants? 

 

I think its all part of the dumbing down and pandering slightly to the wrong attitude. 

 

 

 

 

I would bet 50 new pence that the cause of the dismissals at Wigan was complaints by Boaters. 

 

Of course my experience of canald was between the age of 20 and 35 so totally different to having a bus pass. 

 

As for lock numbers I did 32 GU locks in one day by myself and 50 GU locks in one day with someone else steering the Boat. 

 

No locks shared no silly volunteers just a job done and while tiring it was unforgettable and very enjoyable. 

 

 

[dogless]

C&RT Volunteers tend to be older people, as they are the ones who have free time generally speaking.

 

Jane and I were much more physically active than the lady and gent who helped us today so it naturally fell that we set ahead and they closed up, and it certainly speeded up our transit.

 

Of course I guess people volunteer for their own pleasure, to fill in free hours doing something they enjoy ... but that's why we bought a boat, because it's something we enjoy.

 

I have never minded an offer of help but I do get rather 'prickly' when given orders or instructions which has happened, albeit rarely.

 

Rog

[magnetman]

9 minutes ago, dogless said:

, and it certainly speeded up our transit.

 

 

Rog

Why is the aim to get down the locks as fast as possible? 

 

Marsworth is a wonderful flight. Spending the present moment going down the flight and doing all of the work myself is one of my best memories. Its just nice to do it all. One gets into a sort of trance and time travel is available. 

 

Maybe they clear off when the weather turns. Still considering next winter in the GU rather than the River. 

 

Are they fair weather volunteers ? (fingers crossed) 

[dogless]

Efficiently rather than speedily would have been better word choices.

 

We were busy watching kites right above our heads in several of the locks.

 

They are indeed an enjoyable flight to work.

 

Rog

Edited July 4, 2024 by dogless