Stop plank slots.

[Felshampo]

OK. Quick disclaimer, I realise that stop planks need a recess in the wall so you can put them ino the slot. I foolishly asked this question on Facebook and most people said "thats what the indents for"  and even had one person draw a diagram! 

This is still a daft question but...... How did the lock-keepers get the stop planks into the slot. I assume they didn't have a boat handy. Even if they did that would still seem a overly difficult task. Lowering the planks by rope is possible. Does anyone know the definitive answer or am I just being thick (again). The slots are half way between the gates and the end of the wing walls. The locks are on the run in to Chester on the Shroppie. 

[IanM]

They would have been put in the slots by a maintenance team with the necessary access to boats, ropes, etc and not just one lonely lock keeper.

 

Plus they do float a bit too.

[Felshampo]

I suppose I was thinking in an emergency, when you needed to do it quickly. But maybe they always had the manpower available? 

[Pluto]

You place a plank on either side of the slot and then one man walks across with one end of the stop plank and places it in the slot. After putting three or four in, they can need weighting down, due to buoyancy, to get the final ones in place. I did find this recently, in the Institute of Civil Engineers of Ireland, which describes an early example of the current replacement for stop planks.

Trans ICE of Ireland, 1849

A description of Framed and Canvas Dams; by J. Bevan, Esq., Member.

Mr. Bevan exhibited a model of a single dam, which he had used in the execution of some drainage operations. This dam was composed of strong guide piles, driven at suitable distances, with framed horizontal spur pieces and struts on the inside, to support the pressure to which the dam should be subjected to from the outside. The sheeting planks were fittedin horizontally, between the guide piles, in a similar manner to that described in a former paper on the “ caisson dams,” and painted canvass was laid over the planking on the outside, the lower part of which, being loaded by a chain, or otherweighty substitute, was caused to lie, for some feet, on the bed of the river in front of the dam, so as to form an apron.Upon this apron, and in front of it, some good puddling stuff was thrown, for the purpose of preventing the passage of the water underneath. This dam was found very effective in shallow water, being sufficiently staunch for the required purpose; and was economical in its application, as being easily constructed and removed, and all the parts being useful for otheroperations, also the absence of puddle, as used in coffer dams, was an important advantage in facilitating its removal.

[IanM]

3 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

I suppose I was thinking in an emergency, when you needed to do it quickly. But maybe they always had the manpower available? 

 

I can't think of any emergency where the ones at the lower end of the lock would be of any use and they really would only get used to de-water the lock. 

 

The ones at the head of the lock would be more useful and easier to put in too.

[Pluto]

If there was a breach, stop planks would be dropped in at the nearest bridgehole. They would be difficult to insert due to the flow of water, so would not have sat properly. However, they would slow the flow enough so that a further set could be inserted easily at the next bridgehole with slots.

[Felshampo]

57 minutes ago, Pluto said:

You place a plank on either side of the slot and then one man walks across with one end of the stop plank and places it in the slot. After putting three or four in, they can need weighting down, due to buoyancy, to get the final ones in place. I did find this recently, in the Institute of Civil Engineers of Ireland, which describes an early example of the current replacement for stop planks.

 

Trans ICE of Ireland, 1849

A description of Framed and Canvas Dams; by J. Bevan, Esq., Member.

Mr. Bevan exhibited a model of a single dam, which he had used in the execution of some drainage operations. This dam was composed of strong guide piles, driven at suitable distances, with framed horizontal spur pieces and struts on the inside, to support the pressure to which the dam should be subjected to from the outside. The sheeting planks were fittedin horizontally, between the guide piles, in a similar manner to that described in a former paper on the “ caisson dams,” and painted canvass was laid over the planking on the outside, the lower part of which, being loaded by a chain, or otherweighty substitute, was caused to lie, for some feet, on the bed of the river in front of the dam, so as to form an apron.Upon this apron, and in front of it, some good puddling stuff was thrown, for the purpose of preventing the passage of the water underneath. This dam was found very effective in shallow water, being sufficiently staunch for the required purpose; and was economical in its application, as being easily constructed and removed, and all the parts being useful for otheroperations, also the absence of puddle, as used in coffer dams, was an important advantage in facilitating its removal.

This wouldnt work here, unless you could walk on water. 

[billh]

A stone cill was provided in the bottom of the canal, to seat the first stop plank. In later  years this cill often got covered in debris preventing the plank from sitting down . This problem was partly solved by leaving  the bottom plank in place  permanently , which is ok until a deep boat , combined with a low water level gets stuck on the plank or even destroys it! DAMHIK.

There is a special tool for cleaning the stop plank grooves- a stout wooden pole with a squared off metal clad  spade shaped tip   , the same width as a stop plank.

 

[Felshampo]

52 minutes ago, IanM said:

 

I can't think of any emergency where the ones at the lower end of the lock would be of any use and they really would only get used to de-water the lock. 

 

The ones at the head of the lock would be more useful and easier to put in too.

 

19 minutes ago, Pluto said:

If there was a breach, stop planks would be dropped in at the nearest bridgehole. They would be difficult to insert due to the flow of water, so would not have sat properly. However, they would slow the flow enough so that a further set could be inserted easily at the next bridgehole with slots.

That makes sense. 

Still looks difficult to put stop planks in here. They float so you need to push them down to put the next one in. 

I'd like to see it done. 

[billh]

Continuing the stop plank discussion, I remember  in 1969 , canal  carpenter, Ben Wagstaffe  knocked up a set of stop planks in about half a hour. He cut them to length with a hand saw, bevelled the ends very neatly with an adze and nailed the metal handles on . We had them fitted (in a drained lock )within an hour.

[Pluto]

1 hour ago, Felshampo said:

This wouldnt work here, unless you could walk on water. 

You manhandle the end of the gang plank from the towpath so that it fits into one side of the recess, with a second plank then fitted into the other side of the recess, with the stop planks dropped into the s;lot between the two walkway planks. It is pretty easy work on a narrow canal, but a little bit harder on a wide one.

[Felshampo]

1 hour ago, Pluto said:

You manhandle the end of the gang plank from the towpath so that it fits into one side of the recess, with a second plank then fitted into the other side of the recess, with the stop planks dropped into the s;lot between the two walkway planks. It is pretty easy work on a narrow canal, but a little bit harder on a wide one.

And impossible on this one!  I think you need to look at the photos. 

Edited April 3 by Felshampo

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 hours ago, Felshampo said:

I suppose I was thinking in an emergency, when you needed to do it quickly. But maybe they always had the manpower available? 

Places that had long stretches of embankment would sometimes have swing gates at each end, so if the embankment breached, they could be swung closed quickly, possibly even closing themselves from the flow. Useful on a very long pound, where you can stop even more water enlarging the breach, destroying the embankment and flooding property beyond. Most of these are no longer functional, or so decrepit that they would probably disintegate if an attempt was made to use them for their purpose.

[BEngo]

4 hours ago, Felshampo said:

 

That makes sense. 

Still looks difficult to put stop planks in here. They float so you need to push them down to put the next one in. 

I'd like to see it done. 

We put in  the two sets in the entrance stop log at Circus Field 18 months ago, so we could pump out the chamber between  and check the gate seals.

 

We rigged a Youngman board across the chamber for supplementary access as the normal lift bridge handrails and lift chains were in the way of llifting the planks in off the bridge..

 

Three planks were stacked on the Youngman.  Each plank was then  lifted in by two chaps, one at each end, holding the plank with log grips.

 

Rinse and repeat for the rest.

 

The planks were extracted the same way.

 

Things wot we now know:

 

You must clean the grooves and the bottom sills carefully if you  want the planks to sit down properly. 

 

You cannot pump out the chamber if there is not a proper seal, no matter how many pumps you deploy.

 

There is only one right order to put the planks in.

 

The planks float so you have to stand on the ends of the uppermost one to hold it and all  the others down.  Once you have them all down you need to get them all over to the 'dry' side of the groove.  Wedges are then  needed to hold them in place.

 

The right sort of ash is important to getting a seal.  All fines is no good, too many big lumps is no good.  I believe the K&A have a deal with the GWR society at Didcot for smokebox char and ashpan rakings.  Get the ashing right and the planks will be nearly bone dry.

 

The buggers  are a lot heavier when removing them cos they absorb water...

 

Industrial quantities of tea, coffee and bacon sarnies are important enablers.

 

N

 

[Pluto]

12 hours ago, Felshampo said:

And impossible on this one!  I think you need to look at the photos. 

Sorry, I didn't have my eyes open. BEngo's post should make it clearer for those at the tail of a lock. They coulsd also be floated in on a punt, something every boat and maintenance yard would have. The photo, from Blackburn Library's collection, shows Whitebirk boatyard's punt being used for ferrying a group 'Beating the Bounds' of Blackburn in the 1950s. It is surprising the weight a small punt will carry.

[Felshampo]

15 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Places that had long stretches of embankment would sometimes have swing gates at each end, so if the embankment breached, they could be swung closed quickly, possibly even closing themselves from the flow. Useful on a very long pound, where you can stop even more water enlarging the breach, destroying the embankment and flooding property beyond. Most of these are no longer functional, or so decrepit that they would probably disintegate if an attempt was made to use them for their purpose.

The ones in Nantwich still work. 

14 hours ago, BEngo said:

We put in  the two sets in the entrance stop log at Circus Field 18 months ago, so we could pump out the chamber between  and check the gate seals.

 

We rigged a Youngman board across the chamber for supplementary access as the normal lift bridge handrails and lift chains were in the way of llifting the planks in off the bridge..

 

Three planks were stacked on the Youngman.  Each plank was then  lifted in by two chaps, one at each end, holding the plank with log grips.

 

Rinse and repeat for the rest.

 

The planks were extracted the same way.

 

Things wot we now know:

 

You must clean the grooves and the bottom sills carefully if you  want the planks to sit down properly. 

 

You cannot pump out the chamber if there is not a proper seal, no matter how many pumps you deploy.

 

There is only one right order to put the planks in.

 

The planks float so you have to stand on the ends of the uppermost one to hold it and all  the others down.  Once you have them all down you need to get them all over to the 'dry' side of the groove.  Wedges are then  needed to hold them in place.

 

The right sort of ash is important to getting a seal.  All fines is no good, too many big lumps is no good.  I believe the K&A have a deal with the GWR society at Didcot for smokebox char and ashpan rakings.  Get the ashing right and the planks will be nearly bone dry.

 

The buggers  are a lot heavier when removing them cos they absorb water...

 

Industrial quantities of tea, coffee and bacon sarnies are important enablers.

 

N

 

Could you use a youngman board in a lock wing? There's nowhere to attach it or get on it once in place. 

Your description is identical to how I saw it being done at a bridgehole on the Macclesfield. They had to stand on the dry planks to get them to sink so they could put in the next one. This is why I am skeptical of the suggestion that they used ropes to lower them in place. 

[Pluto]

The first image is from a carpenters notebook on the L&LC, giving the dimensions of the stop planks for the bridges and locks on the Yorkshire area. The second shows the stop planks being removed from the entrance to the drydock at Burscough. I used this on several occasions, and my boat is in the background, waiting to tow Scorpio back to Crabtree Lane. Some stop planks had a steel rod through them about a foot from the end which could be used for lifting. I seem to remember different types of lifting aids like this on other canals. Stop planks were often set on fire, so sets were kept at maintenance yards for use as required. However, the variation in length, as in the notebook, meant that too many sets needed to be provided, so movable temporary dams are now used instead, with one dam suitable for all sites.

[TheBiscuits]

7 hours ago, Pluto said:

However, the variation in length, as in the notebook, meant that too many sets needed to be provided, so movable temporary dams are now used instead, with one dam suitable for all sites.

 

The Wigan team started using adjustable aluminium ones a few years ago (2021).  I was moored close to where they were testing them the first time they tried it out.

 

Three bits of box section, one as a main sleeve and two fractionally smaller ones slid inside each end of the main section.  Bolts to hold the lengths in position.

 

A sheet of plastic held on by the top "plank" to reduce water flow.  Seems to work well, and can quickly be adjusted to length for other locations.  Also doesn't float, so they were less pleased about getting them out again!

 

Picture taken at Wigan dry dock when the gates were causing problems.  If I'd thought about it I'd have got more of the technical detail on the photo, but it's a bit late now!

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 03/04/2024 at 15:33, Felshampo said:

This is still a daft question but......

just shows there’s no such thing as a daft question,

it’s was a good conversation starter leading to an interesting thread 👍

[noddyboater]

10 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

just shows there’s no such thing as a daft question,

it’s was a good conversation starter leading to an interesting thread 👍

When working up on the Lancaster a couple of years ago there wasn't enough water to float my tug- or even empty hopper, that had been craned in on site. As I'd been booked for a week I suggested to the gaffer ( one of CRT's main contractors for dredging and bank maintenance work) that we find the nearest bridge hole downstream and raise the level with stop planks.

Blank looks all around. Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

[Pluto]

2 hours ago, noddyboater said:

When working up on the Lancaster a couple of years ago there wasn't enough water to float my tug- or even empty hopper, that had been craned in on site. As I'd been booked for a week I suggested to the gaffer ( one of CRT's main contractors for dredging and bank maintenance work) that we find the nearest bridge hole downstream and raise the level with stop planks.

Blank looks all around. Honestly, you couldn't make it up.

You should have given them the notes below so they knew where they ought to be:

RAIL844/243 pp44-45

Gent.

Both ends of your Canal is Navigable & the Trade is again commenced. The principal repairs which have been done during the dry season are as follows, viz:

 

Stop Gates built on the Lancaster Level.

1^st   Double pointed Gates at Park Bridge near Galgate Embk.

2     Single Grove & Sill at Garstang Road Bridge near Wyre do.

3     do………do………near Ray Lane Bridge.

4     Single pointed Gates with Sill & Grove at Swillbrook Bridge.

5     Single Sill & Grove at Smith’s Swivel Bridge, Salwick.

6     Double pointed Gates in the Deep Cutting near Preston.

 

Stop Gates built & repaired on the South Level.

1     Single Sill & Grove put in at Moss Lane Bridge, nr Johnson’s Hillock.

2     Single falling Stop Gate taken out & repaired, Sill & pile planking put in at Swivel Bridge South of Cross Hall Embankment.

3     Double falling Stop Gates taken out & repaired, Sill & pile planking put in & the walls made water tight at Limbrick Swivel Bridge.

4     Single falling Stop Gate taken out & repaired, Sill & pile planking put in & side wall made water tight at Goodmans Bridge, South of the Douglas Valley.

5     Double falling Stop Gates taken out & repaired, Sill & pile planking put in, the walls cut thro’ & made water tight in Mr Johnson’s Land South of Hollingshead Valley.

6     Double falling Stop Gates Taken out & repaired, the Sill & pile secured, the wall cut thro’ & made water tight at Red Rock Best regards.

7     Single falling Stop Gate taken out & repaired, the Sill & pile planking secured, the wall cut thro’ & made water tight at Geo. Gibson’s near the Cannel Hollows in Haigh.

 

From Preston to Sidgreaves Lane all the Embankments have been sodded in the inside to secure the slopes & in several places where the Banks have been too low Earth has been Boated to raise the same to carry 6 feet 9 inches water, & I beg leave to recommend to the Committee to have all the Embankments where they are too low raised so high as to make the depth of water about 5 feet 6 inches in the North End.

The Trade on both ends of your Canal has suffered very much by the Canal being dry, & if a Frost should set in early in the winter it will be a considerable loss, both to the Canal Co. & the public; it would be therefore a matter of great importance to the concern if the Canal could be by any means kept open. Perhaps it may be an object which deserves the most serious consideration of the Committee. Ice Boats are the only means, & I think it necessary that one should be built on the South Level without loss of time.

The plans with the books of refference for making the Reservoirs on Docker & Hutton Roof Commons has duly been deposited at the Offices of the Clerk of the Peace for the Counties of Lancashire & Westmorland.

I am Gent., your most Obt. Hbl. Servt,

Wm. Cartwright.

Lancaster, 3^rd October 1800

[noddyboater]

It was a bank protection job on the Northern reaches, between bridges 146 and 147.

Both had plank grooves, but the main issue was the bloke managing the job had no idea what stop planks are, or how to use them.

He's probably great at human resources though, whatever that is.

[magnetman]

The metal slots for the stop planks are called groove irons. 

 

The long handled tool for cleaning them is called a spud. 

 

John at Stockers lock told me this and he had the iron head of a spud in his collection of old tools. 

 

 

 

 

[Pluto]

I used a keb for clearing the sill, and for lifting the planks as they rose towards the surface. You could separate the top plank from those under sufficiently to pass ropes around it easily at either end. These were then used for lifting the plank clear. For replacing the planks, the corners between groove and sill were cleared by reversing the keb and using the end of the handle.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Here’s a neat solution, at Ware, I wonder if it’s ever been tried and tested?