Baton Twirlers Stage Protest (again)

[Midnight]

8 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

What would be the avenue it would go to court on? CRT can charge what they like on differentiating licence fees.

 

 

On the grounds that a CCer refused to pay EoG having been accepted and charged for being a CCer. Only hypothetical as I have a home mooring just wondering if the admin of the surcharge will e complicated. Better all round if we all pay same rate. Still reasonable even if it's the higher of the two.

[Paul C]

14 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

On the grounds that a CCer refused to pay EoG having been accepted and charged for being a CCer. 

 

The charge is for not having a home mooring for >6 months - which is a different thing.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

"British Cycling" is the governing body for competitive cycle racing in Great Britain, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

 

Maybe it was some other body who represents leisure cycling.

 

 

Cycling UK has championed the cause of cycling for more than 140 years. We promote all forms of cycling, protect the interests of existing and would-be cyclists, and inspire people across the UK to discover the joys of cycling.

As an independent, democratic and expert organisation, our activities reflect the commitment of our members, volunteers and partners to make cycling mainstream and to create a lasting difference to the lives of individuals and communities.

 

 

Edited April 6 by Alan de Enfield

[nbfiresprite]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe it was some other body who represents leisure cycling.

 

 

Cycling UK has championed the cause of cycling for more than 140 years. We promote all forms of cycling, protect the interests of existing and would-be cyclists, and inspire people across the UK to discover the joys of cycling.

As an independent, democratic and expert organisation, our activities reflect the commitment of our members, volunteers and partners to make cycling mainstream and to create a lasting difference to the lives of individuals and communities.

 

 

The Cyclists Touring Club (CTC) now branded as Cycling UK rejects any plans to introduce charges. Sustrans on the other hand who are busy turning towpaths into cyclepaths may support charging as they did with the K&A canal towpath back in the 2000's

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

 

The charge is for not having a home mooring for >6 months - which is a different thing.

And no different in principle from a CCer taking a paid for mooring in a marina for a couple of nights.

Some on here would seem to be suggesting that a boater without a home mooring is not permitted to pay for any mooring at all!

Edited April 6 by David Mack

[cheesegas]

23 hours ago, matty40s said:

If CCers are forced to pay lots more, how on earth are they going to afford their foreign holidays....

 

As a CC’r I look forward to the promised foreign holiday paid for with all the money I’ve been saving? Any idea where the form to claim is?

 

(side note; it’s mainly non-CC’rs I see in summer with a genny/engine running at 7pm because they haven’t got enough solar to run all the landline creature comforts they’re used to having whilst hooked up to shore power in the marina…)

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

As a CC’r I look forward to the promised foreign holiday paid for with all the money I’ve been saving? Any idea where the form to claim is?

 

 

I think you'll find that most banks have the necessary forms (generally known as withdrawl slips) this will give you access to all of the money you have saved by CCing.

 

There should be many thousands of pounds available (unless it has been spent on loose women, drugs or alcohol)

 

A typical example :

 

Edited April 7 by Alan de Enfield

[Higgs]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think you'll find that most banks have the necessary forms (generally known as withdrawl slips) this will give you access to all of the money you have saved by CCing.

 

There should be many thousands of pounds available (unless it has been spent on loose women, drugs or alcohol)

 

Are you sneering again? I don't see the smiley face, or tongue in cheek.

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, cheesegas said:

 

(side note; it’s mainly non-CC’rs I see in summer with a genny/engine running at 7pm because they haven’t got enough solar to run all the landline creature comforts they’re used to having whilst hooked up to shore power in the marina…)

How can you tell? Do tell, I generally find it so hard to discriminate between one boater and another.

Not that there's owt wrong with running a genny at 7pm, apart from it being annoying to anyone nearby.

[Momac]

17 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

Some on here would seem to be suggesting that a boater without a home mooring is not permitted to pay for any mooring at all!

A CC'er can take as many short term paid for moorings as they like. 

A 'HM'er ''is required to have a long term mooring agreement that is in place  and available throughout the period  that a license is held.

[David Mack]

Just now, Momac said:

A CC'er can take as many short term paid for moorings as they like. 

A 'HM'er ''is required to have a long term mooring agreement that is in place  and available throughout the period  that a license is held.

Indeed. But some seem to be suggesting that being licenced as a CCer exempts the boater from paying the EoG fee to CRT if they do take a mooring (and don't/can't) change their licence status.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There should be many thousands of pounds available (unless it has been spent on loose women, drugs or alcohol)

and the rest frittered away

Who said that?

(or similar words)

[David Mack]

1 minute ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

and the rest frittered away

Who said that?

(or similar words)

George Best.

"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."

[Momac]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Indeed. But some seem to be suggesting that being licenced as a CCer exempts the boater from paying the EoG fee to CRT if they do take a mooring (and don't/can't) change their licence status.

Speculation. The new licensing regime has only been in place a week.

Don''t see why taking a mooring of any sort should be prohibited. 

 

 

[Higgs]

I've taken 3 short-term moorings, while I went away. Paid for. Never bother telling CRT. 

 

 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

How can you tell? Do tell, I generally find it so hard to discriminate between one boater and another.

 

I find it dead easy. The CMers spend months at a stretch on the 48hr VMs. 

 

 

 

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Indeed. But some seem to be suggesting that being licenced as a CCer exempts the boater from paying the EoG fee to CRT if they do take a mooring (and don't/can't) change their licence status.

I wasnt suggesting anything. Perhaps my question wasn't clear. What would be the position if having paid the CCer surcharge the boater refused to pay the EoG charge for a mooring less than 6 months on the grounds that he/she had already been charged for 12 months usage. If usage includes additional mooring would CRT be charging twice for the same thing?

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I wasnt suggesting anything. Perhaps my question wasn't clear. What would be the position if having paid the CCer surcharge the boater refused to pay the EoG charge for a mooring less than 6 months on the grounds that he/she had already been charged for 12 months usage. If usage includes additional mooring would CRT be charging twice for the same thing?

 

 

Are you suggesting that if a CCer took a mooring, they wouldn't have to pay for it as they'd paid a CC surcharge ?

 

Maybe thats the way to go - a few % on the licence fee, or a £3000 pa mooring fee, which shall I pay?  Hmmmm.

[TheBiscuits]

15 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I wasnt suggesting anything. Perhaps my question wasn't clear. What would be the position if having paid the CCer surcharge the boater refused to pay the EoG charge for a mooring less than 6 months on the grounds that he/she had already been charged for 12 months usage. If usage includes additional mooring would CRT be charging twice for the same thing?

 

 

You would have to pay any required EoG fees (if applicable) for it to be a valid mooring contract, but if you were to moor for more than 6 months you can claim a refund of the surcharge.

 

From the licencing portal login page: (My bold)

 

Evidence of home mooring requirements from 1st April 2024 (please see our FAQ page for more information) 

 

New or existing continuous cruiser  

No confirmation is required.   

 

New customer with a home mooring 

You will need to provide the details of your mooring contract, which must cover the period of your licence.   

If your boat does not have a Trust index number, you will need to register prior to being able to purchase a licence. There is a charge of £20 which will be refunded if you licence within 28 days of us accepting the evidence you have provided for your mooring.   

 

Existing customer remaining on the same home mooring  

You do not need to provide the details of your mooring contract when you licence, however, we may ask you for details during your licence period.   

 

Existing customer moving to a new home mooring 

You will need to provide the details of your mooring contract,   

 

Changing from continuous cruiser to home mooring 

You will need to provide the details of your mooring contract, which must be for six months or more. If you pay for a monthly mooring, you can retrospectively claim a refund on the continuous cruiser surcharge if you can show six consecutive monthly mooring agreements/payments. In this case your status will remain as ‘continuous cruiser’ and you will receive a pro rata refund of paid surcharge from the date you notify the Trust of the change providing you have provided the necessary evidence. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I’m not sure where you’re coming from with this,

but with myself, if I have bought a year license  no home mooring, and then took on a mooring for the winter, say less than 6 month, whether it be end of garden or marina I’d just have to suck it up and pay, wouldn’t I?

[Mike Todd]

On 06/04/2024 at 09:10, Higgs said:

 

Which is already a fallacy. What this surcharge has done is introduced a usage charge, above and beyond the right to float your boat.

 

 

 

No it is not a usage charge - if it were then that usage would have to appear contractually in your licence documentation from CaRT. It was an argument batted around in the debate but in the end all that the surcharge does is allow a boater to cruise (within movement rules) the network and not have to declare a home mooring.

[Momac]

11 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

 if I have bought a year license  no home mooring, and then took on a mooring for the winter, say less than 6 month, whether it be end of garden or marina I’d just have to suck it up and pay, wouldn’t I?

Yes

Edited April 7 by Momac

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, Momac said:

A CC'er can take as many short term paid for moorings as they like. 

A 'HM'er ''is required to have a long term mooring agreement that is in place  and available throughout the period  that a license is held.

There does seem to be a lacuna at that point - almost all moorers renew their mooring agreement at a different date in the year than their licence - even if they did once align the Covid-month changed that. Most marinas offer no commitment to renew at the end of the existing agreement  - indeed they can probably terminate earlier in some events. Hence, for the period after the end of the current mooring agreement,  a boater does not have a home mooring available throughput the period. Not sure how that will be dealt with!

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Mike Todd said:

There does seem to be a lacuna at that point - almost all moorers renew their mooring agreement at a different date in the year than their licence - even if they did once align the Covid-month changed that. Most marinas offer no commitment to renew at the end of the existing agreement  - indeed they can probably terminate earlier in some events. Hence, for the period after the end of the current mooring agreement,  a boater does not have a home mooring available throughput the period. Not sure how that will be dealt with!

 

It is exactly the same with both the BSS and Insurance.

C&RT simply say that you must have valid Insurance / BSS for the full period of the licence.

 

Basically you are signing to a commitment to renew the Mooring/BSS/Insurance when it becomes due.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

It’s dead amusing, kind of, there are folk out there who know how to swizzle the tax man and whoever but are getting really stumped looking for the ‘angle’ on this surcharge. 

A surcharge which is Fk all in their scheme of things. 

I feel for the fat boats mind.