Boat survey finding

[Peter07]

Hello,

just received our survey and one of the concerns is the galley waste outlet is 60mm above the waterline, is this acceptable?

This is our first boat and looking for advice, thanks.

[Paul C]

Technically yes, since the BSS requirements for private boats don't specify a minimum. But common sense should guide you here.....

[mrsmelly]

If that's about all they can find worth mentioning it's sounding like a good boat.

[Peter07]

Thanks for the replies and advice. 

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

If that's about all they can find worth mentioning it's sounding like a good boat.

I have to have a survey on my new boat which goes against the grain for me, but for full insurance I will have to do it

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

I have to have a survey on my new boat which goes against the grain for me, but for full insurance I will have to do it

Mad isn't it, jobs for the boys Peter 😩

[MtB]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Mad isn't it, jobs for the boys Peter 😩

 

No it makes perfect sense. They don't want people buying knackered old rust buckets and insuring them comprehensively. The survey is probably as much a valuation as well as a condition report. 

 

Or put it this way, I wouldn't want to own shares in an insco that doesn't require surveys! 

[peterboat]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Mad isn't it, jobs for the boys Peter 😩

Absolutely, I am taking it out for hull painting, we are spraying it navy blue, car paint better finish and longer lasting. Then it's an anti foul of some description, there are some fantastic vehicle protection systems that might be good for the job, anti rust will be zinga as it's well proven on my own boat

[Momac]

Skin fittings on boats  may often be close to the waterline or even below the waterline . I don;t have a picture of skin fittings below the waterline but I do have three on my boat and there is nothing unusual about that.

What is important is what happens to the hose  attached to the skin fittings inside the boat. The hose or the item inside the boat has to extend sufficiently far above the waterline to prevent sinking .

On a lumpy water boat this has to consider the boat heeled over as in when sailing, when a powerful motorboat is in a turn, or the effects of waves .

On a canal boat  somewhat less of a risk, perhaps  but still there can be waves even if on a modest scale.

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

31 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Absolutely, I am taking it out for hull painting, we are spraying it navy blue, car paint better finish and longer lasting. Then it's an anti foul of some description, there are some fantastic vehicle protection systems that might be good for the job, anti rust will be zinga as it's well proven on my own boat

 

Bear in mind YOU know the condition of your boat but the insco doesn't. The surveyor is their eyes and ears in terms of assessing its condition.

 

And there is more to it, if the survey is hookey or lying, the surveyor will generally get sued for any losses resulting.

 

So demanding a survey is insurance for the insurance company! 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Momac said:

Skin fittings on boats  may often be close to the waterline or even below the waterline . I don;t have a picture of skin fittings below the waterline but I do have three on my boat and there is nothing unusual about that.

 

 

I have 14 thru-hulls that are below the water line, BUT - each one has a stop-valve (sea cock) so any leaks can be closed down. Wooden plugs are located at each valve (sea cock) in case the valve itself fails.

 

Engine (1) cooling water in

Engine (1) cooling water out

Engine (1) Exhaust

Engine (2) cooling water in

Engine (2) cooling water out

Engine (2) Exhaust

Forward Toilet flush water in

Forward Toilet Flush water out

En-Suite (Stern) Toilet flush water in

En Suite (Stern) Toilet Flush water out

Pump-Out tank Black water out

Pump-Out tank Grey water out

Speed Log/Paddle

Sounder Transducer

Edited March 23, 2024 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have 14 thru-hulls that are below the water line

 

Ok but what about your boat??

 

😅

 

[ditchcrawler]

35 minutes ago, Momac said:

Skin fittings on boats  may often be close to the waterline or even below the waterline . I don;t have a picture of skin fittings below the waterline but I do have three on my boat and there is nothing unusual about that.

What is important is what happens to the hose  attached to the skin fittings inside the boat. The hose or the item inside the boat has to extend sufficiently far above the waterline to prevent sinking .

On a lumpy water boat this has to consider the boat heeled over as in when sailing, when a powerful motorboat is in a turn, or the effects of waves .

On a canal boat  somewhat less of a risk, perhaps  but still there can be waves even if on a modest scale.

 

 

 

 

 

I have had two shear off when they have caught protruding steel work, thankfully not at the water line or below, This one was quite close down and I changed it out while in drydock

 

Edited March 23, 2024 by ditchcrawler
Better photo

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have had two shear off when they have caught protruding steel work, thankfully not at the water line or below, This one was quite close down and I changed it out while in drydock

 

 

Presumably weakened due to dezincification (maybe caused by insufficient anodes).

[Momac]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I have to have a survey on my new boat which goes against the grain for me, but for full insurance I will have to do it

The OP may think you are talking about a new boat. I think you are probably talking about an old boat which you bought recently?

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Bear in mind YOU know the condition of your boat but the insco doesn't. The surveyor is their eyes and ears in terms of assessing its condition.

 

And there is more to it, if the survey is hookey or lying, the surveyor will generally get sued for any losses resulting.

 

So demanding a survey is insurance for the insurance company! 

 

 

Has anyone in all history ever successfully sued a surveyor?

[ditchcrawler]

50 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Presumably weakened due to dezincification (maybe caused by insufficient anodes).

I don't think so, 18 tons pushing the fitting at 3 mph against the edge of a heavy duty( I don't know the name) steel pile something is going to give

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Has anyone in all history ever successfully sued a surveyor?

Exactly Arthur which is why it's a reluctant survey for me! I will repair it first and then survey, I don't really trust the surveyor after JohnVs experience of one!

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Has anyone in all history ever successfully sued a surveyor?

 

I started the process and my Solicitor said - DO NOT proceed, the survey small print excludes everything he has written, continue, and not only will you be paying all your costs you'll be paying all his costs as well.

 

It cost me £20,000+ to put right what the surveyor had missed but my Solicitor said it would have cost me far more if I had gone to court.

[Ianws]

I'm guessing an insurer couldn't take action regarding a claim resulting from faults not covered in a dodgy survey they relied on as they wouldn't be part of the contract. Would they push it back on  the boat owner, who would then find it practically impossible to sue the surveyor, or would they just accept the survey and pay out. 

 

[Paul C]

6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Has anyone in all history ever successfully sued a surveyor?

 

We got £3k off the purchase price of our first boat we bought, due to the survey. And they spotted the propeller nut wasn't present. So it worked out for us.

[PNB116]

I had a similar finding on my first boat, a few years ago now, and if my memory serves me right a simple loop of hose pipe above the intake fixed it. Perhaps worth investigating? I’m not an expert but I think it may fail the BSS without it. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, PNB116 said:

I had a similar finding on my first boat, a few years ago now, and if my memory serves me right a simple loop of hose pipe above the intake fixed it. Perhaps worth investigating? I’m not an expert but I think it may fail the BSS without it. 

 

Not unless it is a hire boat, it won't. For private boats it is only an advisory, but in any case the flooding height is the sink rim PROVIDED pipe between the hull outlet remains intact and in place. If a length of hose has been used then I would double hose clip it.

[fatmanblue]

1 hour ago, PNB116 said:

I had a similar finding on my first boat, a few years ago now, and if my memory serves me right a simple loop of hose pipe above the intake fixed it. Perhaps worth investigating? I’m not an expert but I think it may fail the BSS without it. 

It certainly shouldn't fail BSS if it is a private boat. A marine surveyor probably won't like it, as you have found out.

My boat has a skin fitting that is basically on the waterline when underway. Never been an issue for BSS (6 BSS and 3 different testers) and never been an issue whilst cruising. I have just moved it though, I've never liked the idea of the possibility of it catching on something and shearing off. 

[blackrose]

10 hours ago, Momac said:

Skin fittings on boats  may often be close to the waterline or even below the waterline . I don;t have a picture of skin fittings below the waterline but I do have three on my boat and there is nothing unusual about that.

What is important is what happens to the hose  attached to the skin fittings inside the boat. The hose or the item inside the boat has to extend sufficiently far above the waterline to prevent sinking .

On a lumpy water boat this has to consider the boat heeled over as in when sailing, when a powerful motorboat is in a turn, or the effects of waves .

On a canal boat  somewhat less of a risk, perhaps  but still there can be waves even if on a modest scale.

 

If they're very close to or below the waterline then they should have a seacock fitted. 

 

Ideally all through hull skin fittings should be 10" above the waterline and that's why the OP's surveyor has picked it up. It's not a BSS requirement but it is a recommendation. You say there's nothing unusual about having skin fittings closer to the waterline and that may be true, many canal boats have skin fittings that are too close to the waterline which is not ideal.

 

Also it's not just about the pipe or hose attached to the fitting inside the boat. If the fitting is sheared off in a lock or on a wall as Ditchcrawler describes, then a hole may be left in the side of the hull only a few inches above the waterline which the owner may be unaware of. Then the pipes or hoses connected to the ruptured fitting become irrelevant. Skin fittings getting sheared off isn't as uncommon as one might think, especially if they are plastic like the ones in your picture. Plastic skin fittings have no place on a canal boat.

Edited March 24, 2024 by blackrose