My 57 ft Boat refurb

[Peanut]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is all very well and good, but as those facts are disputed every time, how will it help. I would be interested to see how you will define the law and the potential consequences of ignoring it ---------------

You have it there, you state, with clarity, what the rules are and explain that they may be contested by some, but doing so might cause them problems later on.

Having told them, accept the fact that they are free agents, and can do as they will.

You can take a horse.....etc. no point in arguing with them.

 

[LadyG]

13 hours ago, JungleJames said:

 

 

So Lady G, whilst harsh, was fair in what she said. 

......

......

Edited May 2 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

You have it there, you state, with clarity, what the rules are and explain that they may be contested by some, but doing so might cause them problems later on.

Having told them, accept the fact that they are free agents, and can do as they will.

You can take a horse.....etc. no point in arguing with them.

 

 

But others refuse to leave it there and contest what is said without a shred of actual evidence to back their opinion up. From my point of view, it seems you allow me (and Alan) to give one warning, yet you leave other free to dispute it as much as they like. People accuse Alan of block cut and pastes, but what he cuts and pastes is directly relevant to the questions asked. It is others who go on to spin such threads out by disputing what has been presented in black and white, usually from reputable sources. This is why I would be interested in how you would précis the RCD/RCR, especially in light of the latest updates, and to see how it is received.

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But others refuse to leave it there and contest what is said without a shred of actual evidence to back their opinion up. From my point of view, it seems you allow me (and Alan) to give one warning, yet you leave other free to dispute it as much as they like. People accuse Alan of block cut and pastes, but what he cuts and pastes is directly relevant to the questions asked. It is others who go on to spin such threads out by disputing what has been presented in black and white, usually from reputable sources. This is why I would be interested in how you would précis the RCD/RCR, especially in light of the latest updates, and to see how it is received.

 

To give an example ;

 

Earlier, a question was asked why an owner could not sign a PCA to say the boat complied.

 

I could have answered "because they are not allowed to, they are not qualified" the response would be 'you are inventing that - prove it"

 

To avoid a series of 'he said - she said' I 'cut and pasted the actual document that the approved notified body was required to sign, and , the list of criteria that was needed to be checked and 'signed off'.

 

You can either trust what I say is correct, or you can question it, or I can just provide the evidence (all beit cut & paste) and the factual documents.

[Peanut]

24 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But others refuse to leave it there and contest what is said without a shred of actual evidence to back their opinion up. From my point of view, it seems you allow me (and Alan) to give one warning, yet you leave other free to dispute it as much as they like. People accuse Alan of block cut and pastes, but what he cuts and pastes is directly relevant to the questions asked. It is others who go on to spin such threads out by disputing what has been presented in black and white, usually from reputable sources. This is why I would be interested in how you would précis the RCD/RCR, especially in light of the latest updates, and to see how it is received.

Sorry, you misunderstand my intent, certainly state the regulations and law as they stand, with a clear explanation of what is intended, and noting that there may be disagreements about the interpretation, but edit extraneous comments, or other matters, to keep it clear and precise. If someone wishes to start a thread to debate it, that is a different matter, and wouldn't detract from other enquiries. Should they wish to hijack a thread, then they can be asked to start one of their own to debate it.

 

Edit: your evidence would be in the sticky.

Edited May 2 by Peanut

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Peanut said:

Sorry, you misunderstand my intent, certainly state the regulations and law as they stand, with a clear explanation of what is intended, and noting that there may be disagreements about the interpretation, but edit extraneous comments, or other matters, to keep it clear and precise. If someone wishes to start a thread to debate it, that is a different matter, and wouldn't detract from other enquiries. Should they wish to hijack a thread, then they can be asked to start one of their own to debate it.

 

I still don't think that you are grasping how some posters here operate and that fact that the regulations seem to me to be badly drafted so it gives room for interpretation. In many areas the current interpretation is informed by case law, but in the case of the RCR/RCD there is very little of it, especially for canal boats.

 

I have been personally informed by email from a boater that an unnamed broker demanded a post construction certificate. We have had at least one similar case posted on here, and Alan has (I think) posted the advice the BMF give their members, so two of us are reasonably happy the brokers are refusing to handle boats without the relevant RCR/RCD certification. The usual suspects always dispute this and demand names, but totally refuse to provide any evidence to the contrary. The closest we get is statements like "hundreds of boats have been sold since covid" which is probably true and I am sure some of them were handled by brokers who did not require any paperwork, but that in no way means there will be no consequences later if a purchaser or someone altering their post 1998 boat ignores what looks like the law.

[truckcab79]

15 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I still don't think that you are grasping how some posters here operate and that fact that the regulations seem to me to be badly drafted so it gives room for interpretation. In many areas the current interpretation is informed by case law, but in the case of the RCR/RCD there is very little of it, especially for canal boats.

 

I have been personally informed by email from a boater that an unnamed broker demanded a post construction certificate. We have had at least one similar case posted on here, and Alan has (I think) posted the advice the BMF give their members, so two of us are reasonably happy the brokers are refusing to handle boats without the relevant RCR/RCD certification. The usual suspects always dispute this and demand names, but totally refuse to provide any evidence to the contrary. The closest we get is statements like "hundreds of boats have been sold since covid" which is probably true and I am sure some of them were handled by brokers who did not require any paperwork, but that in no way means there will be no consequences later if a purchaser or someone altering their post 1998 boat ignores what looks like the law.

I think the bit that’s going totally over your head is that fact that you and Alan de E continually ruin threads on here with your pedantry, particularly over the RCD when it has  little relevance to what’s being asked, or if it is relevant then it’s worthy of one comment, not ruining thread after thread arguing the toss over it.  This thread is the perfect example. A nice build thread about a chap and his boat project that is now another dead thread and another member given up on the forum.  You need to get over yourselves.  However hard it may be why not try not posting  anything at all for a couple of weeks?

 

Unfortunately I suspect  you’ll find that your input won’t be missed. 
 

Anyhow - enough from me I’m off back to Facebook. 😂 👋 

[Tracy D'arth]

8 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

I think  really?

Anyhow - enough from me I’m off back to Facebook. 😂 👋 

Good.

35 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I still don't think that you are grasping how some posters here operate and that fact that the regulations seem to me to be badly drafted so it gives room for interpretation. In many areas the current interpretation is informed by case law, but in the case of the RCR/RCD there is very little of it, especially for canal boats.

 

I have been personally informed by email from a boater that an unnamed broker demanded a post construction certificate. We have had at least one similar case posted on here, and Alan has (I think) posted the advice the BMF give their members, so two of us are reasonably happy the brokers are refusing to handle boats without the relevant RCR/RCD certification. The usual suspects always dispute this and demand names, but totally refuse to provide any evidence to the contrary. The closest we get is statements like "hundreds of boats have been sold since covid" which is probably true and I am sure some of them were handled by brokers who did not require any paperwork, but that in no way means there will be no consequences later if a purchaser or someone altering their post 1998 boat ignores what looks like the law.

I know of one refusenik and will name.

 

Aqueduct Marina.

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

I think the bit that’s going totally over your head is that fact that you and Alan de E continually ruin threads on here with your pedantry, particularly over the RCD when it has  little relevance to what’s being asked, or if it is relevant then it’s worthy of one comment, not ruining thread after thread arguing the toss over it.  This thread is the perfect example. A nice build thread about a chap and his boat project that is now another dead thread and another member given up on the forum.  You need to get over yourselves.  However hard it may be why not try not posting  anything at all for a couple of weeks?

 

Unfortunately I suspect  you’ll find that your input won’t be missed. 
 

Anyhow - enough from me I’m off back to Facebook. 😂 👋 

 

Just because you can't see, or more likely refuse to see, the relevance does not mean me comment it is not relevant. It is the likes of you that then go on and on trying to persuade the questioner that your view is correct, even though you seem incapable of evidencing it.

 

Typical bully boy when you can't get your own way - telling people to stop posting for a couple of weeks.

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

 

 

Anyhow - enough from me I’m off back to Facebook. 😂 👋 

I may just have seen his post on Facebook

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I may just have seen his post on Facebook

Thankfully I don't do Facebook.

[truckcab79]

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Just because you can't see, or more likely refuse to see, the relevance does not mean me comment it is not relevant. It is the likes of you that then go on and on trying to persuade the questioner that your view is correct, even though you seem incapable of evidencing it.

 

Typical bully boy when you can't get your own way - telling people to stop posting for a couple of weeks.

Too scared to try it then. 😂 Thought as much.  Imagine if nobody noticed you’d gone. 😱

 

As for bullying. All I’m trying to do is to  improve the forum by suggesting you stop ruining threads with your pedantry and self-important belief that everyone needs to hear your opinion on literally everything.  

 

 

Edited May 2 by truckcab79

[Tracy D'arth]

Wasting time with this no hoper Tony, just ignore the balloon and he will be deflated.

[truckcab79]

Well I’ve finally added Tony and Alan to my ignored list.  Going to make the threads look a bit odd as it’s 99% of forum content.  😂 But at least their boring nonsense might stop winding me up.  👍. 

[MrsM]

11 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Well I’ve finally added Tony and Alan to my ignored list.  Going to make the threads look a bit odd as it’s 99% of forum content.  😂 But at least their boring nonsense might stop winding me up.  👍. 

Despite your comments I would put money on one of them being among the first to offer technical advice and help, based on their decades of boating experience, if/when you need it.

[truckcab79]

4 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Despite your comments I would put money on one of them being among the first to offer technical advice and help, based on their decades of boating experience, if/when you need it.

Hasn’t happened so far.  Nothing useful anyway.  I don’t ask on here any more for precisely that reason. Lots to say but no content. I won’t miss anything with them on ignore.  
 

That Tracy girl has been on ignore for months. She still posts replies to my stuff but I can’t say I’ve been affected by not being able to read them.  

Edited May 2 by truckcab79

[MrsM]

2 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Hasn’t happened so far.  Nothing useful anyway.  I don’t ask on here any more for precisely that reason. Lots to say but no content. I won’t miss anything. 

Many of us don't have your levels of practical experience, competence and confidence. I for one am extremely grateful for everything I learned from Tony, Alan and many other forum members and would have found the process of buying and running (and even selling) my boat much harder without them. While you are of course entitled to your opinions and have every right to express them I would question whether you also have the right to request that other members stop posting. 

[truckcab79]

4 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Many of us don't have your levels of practical experience, competence and confidence. I for one am extremely grateful for everything I learned from Tony, Alan and many other forum members and would have found the process of buying and running (and even selling) my boat much harder without them. While you are of course entitled to your opinions and have every right to express them I would question whether you also have the right to request that other members stop posting. 

Merely a suggestion. However they like me can do whatever they want and of course they will ignore it and carry on posting but now I don’t have to see it.  Everyone’s a winner ……except maybe the forum, anyone who wants to see a build thread without it being ruined by pedants or anyone wanting information from anyone with any actual practical and up to date experience.  👍

7 minutes ago, MrsM said:

Many of us don't have your levels of practical experience, competence and confidence. I for one am extremely grateful for everything I learned from Tony, Alan and many other forum members and would have found the process of buying and running (and even selling) my boat much harder without them. While you are of course entitled to your opinions and have every right to express them I would question whether you also have the right to request that other members stop posting. 

And with respect I’d be wary about ‘learning’ anything from the person on the forum who posts the most often.  Their own self-importance generally gets in the way of their ability to learn anything themselves. Posting more than anyone else isn’t knowledge.  

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Good.

I know of one refusenik and will name.

 

Aqueduct Marina.

 

Braunston Marina.

 

They seem happy to sell without RCR/RCD paperwork. Coincidentally I had a good look through their pages for people wanting to sell through them and not a sausage mentioned about requiring RCR/RCD for boats being placed on brokerage. Nor any guarantees offered to buyers that boats sold are RCR/RCD compliant. But I may have missed it. 

 

 

[system 4-50]

41 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Merely a suggestion. However they like me can do whatever they want and of course they will ignore it and carry on posting but now I don’t have to see it.  Everyone’s a winner ……except maybe the forum, anyone who wants to see a build thread without it being ruined by pedants or anyone wanting information from anyone with any actual practical and up to date experience.  👍

For me personally, it is you complaining about the unsatisfactory quality nature of forum replies over and over again that detracts from the quality of the forum.   Why not start a topic of your own, listing your observations in detail the once, and then refrain from bothering again?

[AI Rowboat]

15 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Shame.  I don’t post mine here anymore either.

I believe your attempted coup would be better served by continuing with the build topic you started.

A relatively low budget rebuild completed by a keen newcomer would provide encouragement to other, albeit less skilled than yourself, people considering the same.

Serving the silent majority if you will.

[truckcab79]

26 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

For me personally, it is you complaining about the unsatisfactory quality nature of forum replies over and over again that detracts from the quality of the forum.   Why not start a topic of your own, listing your observations in detail the once, and then refrain from bothering again?

So block me. It’s very easy. Though I’d genuinely love to know what you like about a forum that’s largely two old blokes arguing about the RCD 🤔 👍

26 minutes ago, AI Rowboat said:

I believe your attempted coup would be better served by continuing with the build topic you started.

A relatively low budget rebuild completed by a keen newcomer would provide encouragement to other, albeit less skilled than yourself, people considering the same.

Serving the silent majority if you will.

Thank you. I have.  But on Instagram. Follow the link in my build thread  👍.  There wasn’t much point carrying on here as it was clear that there isn’t much in the way of practical knowledge or experience to assist me or swap ideas with.  Hence my frustration when the handful of builds that there are get scuppered by those who are happy to run down others but have no hands-on skills of their own. Happy to talk the talk as they say. 

Edited May 2 by truckcab79

[MrsM]

1 hour ago, truckcab79 said:

 👍

And with respect I’d be wary about learning’ anything from the person on the forum who posts the most often.  Their own self-importance generally gets in the way of their ability to learn anything themselves. Posting more than anyone else isn’t knowledge.  

I'm not sure if you are referring to Tony or Alan here. Regardless, I have followed the forum as a lurker for 5 years, while dreaming of getting a boat, then as a member for 4 years as a boat owner. In my short 9 years I have seen how they (and others) have helped countless people and likely have forgotten more about boating than most of us will ever know. You like using the term "self-importance" - I respectfully suggest a bit of introspection wouldn't go amiss. I hate confrontation and try to avoid it but I cannot stay silent while you continue to berate 2 valued and respected forum contributors. I know they are big boys and don't need defending but I want you to know your views are not shared by everyone.

Edited to add: I hate confrontation and find your posts quite intimidating so I have had to drum up a bit of courage to express how I feel. 

Edited May 2 by MrsM

[AI Rowboat]

17 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Thank you. I have.  But on Instagram. Follow the link in my build thread  👍. 
 

Will do.

There’s a couple of other build topics still going here, including one where a guy who hardly ever posts turned up just to trash the builder’s welding skills.

You may well have a point!

 

[truckcab79]

18 minutes ago, MrsM said:

I'm not sure if you are referring to Tony or Alan here. Regardless, I have followed the forum as a lurker for 5 years, while dreaming of getting a boat, then as a member for 4 years as a boat owner. In my short 9 years I have seen how they (and others) have helped countless people and likely have forgotten more about boating than most of us will ever know. You like using the term "self-importance" - I respectfully suggest a bit of introspection wouldn't go amiss. I hate confrontation and try to avoid it but I cannot stay silent while you continue to berate 2 valued and respected forum contributors. I know they are big boys and don't need defending but I want you to know your views are not shared by everyone.

Edited to add: I hate confrontation and find your posts quite intimidating so I have had to drum up a bit of courage to express how I feel. 

You are very welcome to your own opinions and I respect them completely. However those individuals are not respected or valued by me. I find their input to be more about trying to prove their ‘knowledge’ largely to each other rather than be of any genuine help to anyone else on here. If I set out to ruin every thread on here I’d struggle to do a better job than them. 
 

My posts are not meant to intimidate anyone nor do I care whether anyone else shares my views,  though the ‘likes’ that previous posts garner would suggest that I’m not alone in being bored of these two.
 

 I am also a big boy and do not choose to sit and read their never-ending garbage unremarked just because people are too worried about upsetting what I was once told are  ‘forum elders’.  😂