My 57 ft Boat refurb

[Momac]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do boat builders still self certify for RCR like they did with RCD?

The manufacturer takes sole responsibility for declaring conformity with the standards. This applies to all products that are CE or UKCA marked.

[truckcab79]

🥱 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

🥱

 

Seconded. 

 

I think the market will split soon, into those who love box ticking and wouldn't buy a boat without, and those who DILLIGAF and trade freely. 

[truckcab79]

44 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Seconded. 

 

I think the market will split soon, into those who love box ticking and wouldn't buy a boat without, and those who DILLIGAF and trade freely. 

Probably true but let’s get back to admiring this chaps boat build on this thread. 👍

[LadyG]

On 20/04/2024 at 16:05, Manxcat54 said:

No because i'm not a cold arse with fires everywhere, listen smarty I have a self build campervan and it's more difficult than a boat

You would be best advised to find somewhere else to spout your venom.

[ditchcrawler]

On 20/04/2024 at 10:40, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There are a RCD/RCR Approved surveyors who can be commissioned to oversee the build (much as Building Control) and this is probably a far cheaper way of ensuring compliance than having to pay £4000 (?) to get a PCA.

The other benefit is that it is then the Surveyor who is signing as legally responsible for the boat build - not the DIYer - and they would be held criminally responsible if there was any (say) loss of life due to a fault in the build.

 

 

But why can't you, the builder says it complies.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But why can't you, the builder says it complies.

 

Because builders, and particularly DIY builders lie !

 

The documentation must be completed and signed-off by a 'Notified Body' who is qualified and approved by the RCD/ RCR.

 

This is the PCA form that must be completed :

 

DoC for PCA for Recreational Craft - en180708 fil.pdf

 

 

 

EQUIVALENT CONFORMITY BASED ON POST-CONSTRUCTION ASSESSMENT (MODULE PCA)

 

1.Conformity based on post-construction assessment is the procedure to assess the equivalent conformity of a product for which the manufacturer has not assumed the responsibility for the product’s conformity with this Directive, and whereby a natural or legal person referred to in Article 19(2), (3) or (4) who is placing the product on the market or putting it into service under his own responsibility is assuming the responsibility for the equivalent conformity of the product. This person shall fulfill the obligations laid down in points 2 and 4 and ensure and declare on his sole responsibility that the product concerned, which has been subject to the provisions of point 3, is in conformity with the applicable requirements of this Directive.

 

2.The person who is placing the product on the market or putting it into service shall lodge an application for a post-construction assessment of the product with a notified body and must provide the notified body with the documents and technical file enabling the notified body to assess the conformity of the product with the requirements of this Directive and any available information on the use of the product after its first putting into service.

The person who is placing such a product on the market or putting it into service shall keep these documents and information at the disposal of the relevant national authorities for 10 years after the product has been assessed on its equivalent conformity in accordance with the post-construction assessment procedure.

 

3.The notified body shall examine the individual product and carry out calculations, tests and other assessments, to the extent necessary to ensure that the equivalent conformity of the product with the relevant requirements of this Directive is demonstrated.

The notified body shall draw up and issue a certificate and a related report of conformity concerning the assessment carried out and shall keep a copy of the certificate and related report of conformity at the disposal of the national authorities for 10 years after it has issued these documents.

The notified body shall affix its identification number next to the CE marking on the approved product or have it affixed under its responsibility.

 

The builder also has to certify that they have constructed the boat to the relevant specified ISO standards, OR, detail under what standards the boat has been built that allows the essential requirments to have been met.

 

 

TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION

The technical documentation referred to in Article 7(2) and Article 25 shall, as far as it is relevant for the assessment, contain the following:

(a)

A general description of the type;

(b)

Conceptual design and manufacturing drawings and schemes of components, sub-assemblies, circuits, and other relevant data;

(c)

Descriptions and explanations necessary for the understanding of said drawings and schemes and the operation of the product;

(d)

A list of the standards referred to in Article 14, applied in full or in part, and descriptions of the solutions adopted to fulfil the essential requirements when the standards referred to in Article 14 have not been applied;

(e)

Results of design calculations made, examinations carried out and other relevant data;

(f)

Test reports, or calculations namely on stability in accordance with point 3.2 of Part A of Annex I and on buoyancy in accordance with point 3.3 of Part A of Annex I;

(g)

Exhaust emissions test reports demonstrating compliance with Section 2 of Part B of Annex I;

(h)

Sound emissions test reports demonstrating compliance with Section 1 of Part C of Annex I.

Edited May 1 by Alan de Enfield

[truckcab79]

10 hours ago, LadyG said:

You would be best advised to find somewhere else to spout your venom.

Oh well. Another thread ruined.  Pots and kettles spring to mind.  🙄

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Because builders, and particularly DIY builders lie !

 

The documentation must be completed and signed-off by a 'Notified Body' who is qualified and approved by the RCD/ RCR.

 

This is the PCA form that must be completed :

 

DoC for PCA for Recreational Craft - en180708 fil.pdf 497.23 kB · 5 downloads

 

 

 

EQUIVALENT CONFORMITY BASED ON POST-CONSTRUCTION ASSESSMENT (MODULE PCA)

 

 

1.Conformity based on post-construction assessment is the procedure to assess the equivalent conformity of a product for which the manufacturer has not assumed the responsibility for the product’s conformity with this Directive, and whereby a natural or legal person referred to in Article 19(2), (3) or (4) who is placing the product on the market or putting it into service under his own responsibility is assuming the responsibility for the equivalent conformity of the product. This person shall fulfill the obligations laid down in points 2 and 4 and ensure and declare on his sole responsibility that the product concerned, which has been subject to the provisions of point 3, is in conformity with the applicable requirements of this Directive.

 

 

2.The person who is placing the product on the market or putting it into service shall lodge an application for a post-construction assessment of the product with a notified body and must provide the notified body with the documents and technical file enabling the notified body to assess the conformity of the product with the requirements of this Directive and any available information on the use of the product after its first putting into service.

The person who is placing such a product on the market or putting it into service shall keep these documents and information at the disposal of the relevant national authorities for 10 years after the product has been assessed on its equivalent conformity in accordance with the post-construction assessment procedure.

 

 

3.The notified body shall examine the individual product and carry out calculations, tests and other assessments, to the extent necessary to ensure that the equivalent conformity of the product with the relevant requirements of this Directive is demonstrated.

The notified body shall draw up and issue a certificate and a related report of conformity concerning the assessment carried out and shall keep a copy of the certificate and related report of conformity at the disposal of the national authorities for 10 years after it has issued these documents.

The notified body shall affix its identification number next to the CE marking on the approved product or have it affixed under its responsibility.

 

The builder also has to certify that they have constructed the boat to the relevant specified ISO standards, OR, detail under what standards the boat has been built that allows the essential requirments to have been met.

 

 

TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION

The technical documentation referred to in Article 7(2) and Article 25 shall, as far as it is relevant for the assessment, contain the following:

(a)

A general description of the type;

(b)

Conceptual design and manufacturing drawings and schemes of components, sub-assemblies, circuits, and other relevant data;

(c)

Descriptions and explanations necessary for the understanding of said drawings and schemes and the operation of the product;

(d)

A list of the standards referred to in Article 14, applied in full or in part, and descriptions of the solutions adopted to fulfil the essential requirements when the standards referred to in Article 14 have not been applied;

(e)

Results of design calculations made, examinations carried out and other relevant data;

(f)

Test reports, or calculations namely on stability in accordance with point 3.2 of Part A of Annex I and on buoyancy in accordance with point 3.3 of Part A of Annex I;

(g)

Exhaust emissions test reports demonstrating compliance with Section 2 of Part B of Annex I;

(h)

Sound emissions test reports demonstrating compliance with Section 1 of Part C of Annex I.

🥱

[Manxcat54]

I'm off you lot are utter nuts

[David Mack]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The notified body shall draw up and issue a certificate and a related report of conformity concerning the assessment carried out and shall keep a copy of the certificate and related report of conformity at the disposal of the national authorities for 10 years after it has issued these documents.

So after 10 years, the notified body can dispose of its records. Will brokers still want to see RCR/PCA documentation for a boat more than 10 years old? 

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

So after 10 years, the notified body can dispose of its records. Will brokers still want to see RCR/PCA documentation for a boat more than 10 years old? 

 

I don't know, I am neither a broker nor a Notified body so any answer I give would be speculation.

Why don't you ask them ?

[JungleJames]

11 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Oh well. Another thread ruined.  Pots and kettles spring to mind.  🙄

🥱

Whilst we can agree this RCD stuff is a complete bore, the OP never helped himself.

If you post on a forum, you have to expect comments.

When told chipboard is an utterly daft idea in a water craft, instead of accepting it, or admitting he is a cheapskate cutting corners (either is fine as long as you admit it), he decides to be a smart alec.

 

So Lady G, whilst harsh, was fair in what she said. 

[truckcab79]

2 hours ago, JungleJames said:

Whilst we can agree this RCD stuff is a complete bore, the OP never helped himself.

If you post on a forum, you have to expect comments.

When told chipboard is an utterly daft idea in a water craft, instead of accepting it, or admitting he is a cheapskate cutting corners (either is fine as long as you admit it), he decides to be a smart alec.

 

So Lady G, whilst harsh, was fair in what she said. 

Nonsense.  Feedback and comments are fine. The tone is not and is what destroys this forum. If you think it’s ‘fair’ then you’re as bad as the rest of them.  
 

Another decent build thread ruined and a new member left. And another load of boring pedantry posted.  
 

As I’ve said time and again, it’s as if the members on here want to make sure the forum ceases. Very odd.  

11 hours ago, Manxcat54 said:

I'm off you lot are utter nuts

Shame.  I don’t post mine here anymore either.  Head across to one of the many Facebook sites.  Loads of useful info on there and the comments on your build and any questions you have are far more informed than on here.  You’ll soon realise that the pedantry on the forum is largely a mask for the fact that half of them on here have never built anything and know very little. Narrowboat Owners Group is a good start but there are loads.  Every question I’ve asked on them has been met with informed intelligent comment and information that has really helped. 👍 

Edited Thursday at 05:40 by truckcab79

[Hudds Lad]

Whilst it's not the material i'd choose for building (see also MDF), the old Shareboat had chipboard floors that were still going strong when we sold up and that was fitted out in 1999 and originally with a wet bilge throughout. Assuming all the Pat Buckle fitouts of that age were done the same?

[IanD]

4 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Nonsense.  Feedback and comments are fine. The tone is not and is what destroys this forum. If you think it’s ‘fair’ then you’re as bad as the rest of them.  
 

Another decent build thread ruined and a new member left. And another load of boring pedantry posted.  
 

As I’ve said time and again, it’s as if the members on here want to make sure the forum ceases. Very odd.  

Shame.  I don’t post mine here anymore either.  Head across to one of the many Facebook sites.  Loads of useful info on there and the comments on your build and any questions you have are far more informed than on here.  You’ll soon realise that the pedantry on the forum is largely a mask for the fact that half of them on here have never built anything and know very little. Narrowboat Owners Group is a good start but there are loads.  Every question I’ve asked on them has been met with informed intelligent comment and information that has really helped. 👍 

 

You can say this as much as you want -- I've said something similar on several occasions -- but it won't stop the worst culprits carrying on like that while insisting that they're right to do so... 😞 

[truckcab79]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

You can say this as much as you want -- I've said something similar on several occasions -- but it won't stop the worst culprits carrying on like that while insisting that they're right to do so... 😞 

I know. But it won’t stop me. 😂

Can’t honestly see what they get out of it. It’s like a boat forum that only exists to put people off boats. In contrast, most ‘real’ boat folk are lovely and helpful and in the main seem to be on Facebook helping people and not spending their lives being awful…or worse boring. 😂. In the main it’s because the boat world has moved on and left them behind, and instead of going with it, learning from others and enjoying it, they cling to a ‘better’ time that doesn’t exist and as a result just become more bitter. 
 

You see it in particular in the build and tech requests.  Actual current knowledge is in short supply, they don’t want to learn anything new, but they can’t be seen to not partake in the conversation and so just divert it to something they feel comfortable with, copy and paste RCD or whatever  stuff of no interest to anyone but them, or slag stuff off. 
 

Stick with it. All forums go through it. Just need a few of the bell-ends to call it a day, stop posting and leave it to actual enthusiasts. 

[JungleJames]

9 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Nonsense.  Feedback and comments are fine. The tone is not and is what destroys this forum. If you think it’s ‘fair’ then you’re as bad as the rest of them.  
 

Another decent build thread ruined and a new member left. And another load of boring pedantry posted.  
 

As I’ve said time and again, it’s as if the members on here want to make sure the forum ceases. Very odd.  

Shame.  I don’t post mine here anymore either.  Head across to one of the many Facebook sites.  Loads of useful info on there and the comments on your build and any questions you have are far more informed than on here.  You’ll soon realise that the pedantry on the forum is largely a mask for the fact that half of them on here have never built anything and know very little. Narrowboat Owners Group is a good start but there are loads.  Every question I’ve asked on them has been met with informed intelligent comment and information that has really helped. 👍 

Ok.

I will put it another way- 

Lady G should have been more diplomatic!!!

But if the OP was unwilling to take onboard some well meaning advice. 

 

Remember, this is a very different scenario to your case. You were harassed continually by a certain individual, and you always took advice how it was meant. 

 

The RCD fan club do end up killing a lot though.

It gets to the stage, where I suspect nobody knows what they are saying.

 

 

[Peanut]

There could be two sticky threads.

One, RCD and related regulation, the other, Boat Licence and Mooring Rules.

All you need then do is refer the inquiry to the above threads, leaving the new thread free of endless diatribe.

The mods, with any necessary help could précis the threads down to make them actually useful.

Also, save server space, and avoid off putting posts.

Dons tin hat.

[Alan de Enfield]

So a forum member asks a question about (say) the RCD we have to reply : go and do your own research as a couple of 'holier than thou' new members* get irritated by 'legal stuff' and find it tedious.

 

 

*only joined withn the last 6 months

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, Peanut said:

There could be two sticky threads.

One, RCD and related regulation, the other, Boat Licence and Mooring Rules.

All you need then do is refer the inquiry to the above threads, leaving the new thread free of endless diatribe.

The mods, with any necessary help could précis the threads down to make them actually useful.

Also, save server space, and avoid off putting posts.

Dons tin hat.

 

I don't think that would work, because like it or not the RCD/RCR is the law and it is not very well drafted, giving opportunity for alternative interpretations. Then we have members who seem to believe it is of no consequence and can be ignored. That is fair enough when it is them doing the ignoring on their own behalf, but when they try to tell others, often inexperienced and new boaters, they can ignore the law with impunity I think it is the duty of those who may know a little more that doing so may (not will) have some ramifications later one. Many in that set also seem very keen to demand what they see as acceptable proof of any advice given that contradicts their beliefs, yet seem incapable of providing any evidence that the advice they object to is incorrect.

[Peanut]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So a forum member asks a question about (say) the RCD we have to reply : go and do your own research as a couple of 'holier than thou' new members* get irritated by 'legal stuff' and find it tedious.

 

 

*only joined withn the last 6 months

Not at all, you link to the sticky, and point out the bit that is relevant, without having to repeat it each time.  You may then explain it further if needed.

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, JungleJames said:

Ok.

I will put it another way- 

Lady G should have been more diplomatic!!!

But if the OP was unwilling to take onboard some well meaning advice. 

 

Remember, this is a very different scenario to your case. You were harassed continually by a certain individual, and you always took advice how it was meant. 

 

The RCD fan club do end up killing a lot though.

It gets to the stage, where I suspect nobody knows what they are saying.

 

 

It wasn’t intended to be any comment on my threads tbf. I see the same nonsense on virtually everything that gets posted. 

[Peanut]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't think that would work,........

Of course people will do what the will, but setting out the facts, however I'll defined in law or understood by some, can only help with the continual repetition of the same stuff over again, and at times, might make the forum more usefull for some and help steer the discussion in a positive direction.

[truckcab79]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So a forum member asks a question about (say) the RCD we have to reply : go and do your own research as a couple of 'holier than thou' new members* get irritated by 'legal stuff' and find it tedious.

 

 

*only joined withn the last 6 months

There are only two of you who care and it gets brought into half the threads on here. Invariably with no relevance.  I’d like to talk about peoples boats, their builds and their experiences not see that certain members have an obsession with the RCD and have learnt how to use copy/paste. 

 

As far as go and do your own research generally then doubtlessly Google is clearly a better bet than most forums. So if the only thing a forum can offer is a more personal delivery of the (preferably relevant and correct info) that’s what it should be. Otherwise just reply ‘go and Google it’ or heaven forbid if you have nothing useful or relevant to add to the thread then go and play with your boat instead (I don’t mean you personally, just anyone who can’t stop themselves posting on every topic). 
 

 

1 hour ago, JungleJames said:

 

 

Remember, this is a very different scenario to your case. You were harassed continually by a certain individual, and you always took advice how it was meant. 

 

 

 

 

And if you mean that Tracey D girl I blocked her ages ago.   No desire to read her pointless drivel.  😂

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Peanut said:

Of course people will do what the will, but setting out the facts, however I'll defined in law or understood by some, can only help with the continual repetition of the same stuff over again, and at times, might make the forum more usefull for some and help steer the discussion in a positive direction.

 

That is all very well and good, but as those facts are disputed every time, how will it help. I would be interested to see how you will define the law and the potential consequences of ignoring it -------------------------------- and then lets see how people react.