The opposite of life afloat - can I live on a narrowboat on land?

[Owen Green]

Life on a boat on land

Do I need planning permission

narrowboat services.

Edited February 2 by Owen Green
Fat fingers! And greater clarity

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Welcome to the forum. It can and has been done.

Questions to answer for your particular location, assuming you get planning permission.

Water. Where is it going to come from? No access to the network of water points available on the cut.

Sewage. Again, no easy access to the pump out and elsan network.

Rubbish disposal. See above.

Electricity. Solar can cope in the summer, but not in winter. Boat engines used for charging rely on the canal water to stop them overheating. You'll need an air cooled generator, or can you get a grid connection?

[system 4-50]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Boat engines used for charging rely on the canal water to stop them overheating. You'll need an air cooled generator.

But that big flappy thing at the end will blow cooling air over the stern?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

If living in a metal box is your plan, might I suggest a converted insulated shipping container as a better basis? That extra foot of width and no tumblehome of the sides makes a big difference to the space available inside. Depending on the current price of shipping containers, which swing wildly with global trade levels, then fitting one out may well be cheaper than modifying a narrowboat. Plus, you can have the entrance door at ground level, rather than have to climb three, or four feet up, then back down again to get in and out.

[system 4-50]

Its an interesting question.  What sort of PP would you need?  Would it still be needed if you were an "under the radar" nominally occasional visitor?

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If living in a metal box is your plan, might I suggest a converted insulated shipping container as a better basis? That extra foot of width and no tumblehome of the sides makes a big difference to the space available inside. Depending on the current price of shipping containers, which swing wildly with global trade levels, then fitting one out may well be cheaper than modifying a narrowboat. Plus, you can have the entrance door at ground level, rather than have to climb three, or four feet up, then back down again to get in and out.

If you buy a shipping container, make sure its not already inhabited...

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Depending on the current price of shipping containers, which swing wildly with global trade levels, then fitting one out may well be cheaper than modifying a narrowboat

 

There have been numerous TV programmes about converting 'containers', for a price, you can also get a fully converted 10 / 20 / 40 foot container completely fitted out and 'dropped' onto your site - literally all you do is connect up the water in / water waste out / electricty and you are up and running in an hour.

 

40 X 8 Ft Converted Shipping Container || Container Home | Container office |l | eBay

 

Shipping Container Tiny Home 40 Ft With Full Bathroom - Etsy UK

 

Shipping Container Conversions 40 Ft. 20Ft. Home Office, Man cave, House, Studio | eBay

Edited February 2 by Alan de Enfield

[Sea Dog]

Well, if it's ok to have a garden shed on the waterways, why not? Both equally unsuitable imho. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Well, if it's ok to have a garden shed on the waterways, why not? Both equally unsuitable imho. 

 

8 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Its an interesting question.  What sort of PP would you need?  Would it still be needed if you were an "under the radar" nominally occasional visitor?

Part of what the planning permission system does is prevent the formation of 3rd world style shanty towns and favelas. Since we are getting to third world levels of income disparity and unaffordable conventional housing, the canals are where our floating shanty towns are appearing.

21 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There have been numerous TV programmes about converting 'containers', for a price, you can also get a fully converted 10 / 20 / 40 foot container completely fitted out and 'dropped' onto your site - literally all you do is connect up the water in / water waste out / electricty and you are up and running in an hour.

 

40 X 8 Ft Converted Shipping Container || Container Home | Container office |l | eBay

 

Shipping Container Tiny Home 40 Ft With Full Bathroom - Etsy UK

 

Shipping Container Conversions 40 Ft. 20Ft. Home Office, Man cave, House, Studio | eBay

Interesting examples there. New, bigger and cheaper than even a wreck of a steel narrowboat.

[ditchcrawler]

35 minutes ago, Owen Green said:

On land

Planning permission

nsrrowboad

Middlemoor Farm Boats | two cosy glamping narrowboat vessels moored on a farm in Northumberland (hostunusual.com)

[magnetman]

28 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If living in a metal box is your plan, might I suggest a converted insulated shipping container as a better basis? That extra foot of width and no tumblehome of the sides makes a big difference to the space available inside. Depending on the current price of shipping containers, which swing wildly with global trade levels, then fitting one out may well be cheaper than modifying a narrowboat. Plus, you can have the entrance door at ground level, rather than have to climb three, or four feet up, then back down again to get in and out.

Definitely a better option and can be delivered using a bog standard hiab truck whereas a narrow Boat might be too heavy. 

22 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 

Part of what the planning permission system does is prevent the formation of 3rd world style shanty towns and favelas. Since we are getting to third world levels of income disparity and unaffordable conventional housing, the canals are where our floating shanty towns are appearing.

 

Indeed. It will be interesting to see how policy makers deal with it. 

 

People moan about the CRT but it will be a .gov body with real powers which eventually sorts it out. 

 

This country is changing fast isn't it. 

 

 

[Paul C]

One of these is a far more sensible idea, and I can't see a narrowboat being treated differently than this, for PP etc:

 

 

 

[Owen Green]

Thanks all, thats some really helpful advice.
So it seems I’d definitely need planning permission, does anyone have any further advice on how to make an application more likely to succeed?

For background, I need to sell my house and have been offered a 79ft narrowboat for sale that needs the hull re-plating. I live in an area where there is a short stretch of non CRT canal and whilst popping it in the water might be possible, it will be expensive to make sure it doesn’t sink in the first year. A local landowner has offered some next to the water land to pop it on, so I’m investigating what this would mean in terms of bringing it about and then of living a reasonably sustainable lifestyle. Power, water and sewage were all on my list of ‘how would I sort that out’ questions. I like the deck on the images which show a relatively level entry to the boat. 
any more thoughts hive brain?

[Tracy D'arth]

49 minutes ago, Owen Green said:

On land

Planning permission

nsrrowboad

Fat Fingers?

[magnetman]

79ft narrow Boat? 

 

 

It will be quite technical to get a 70ft narrow Boat onto land unless you can somehow drag it sideways out of the water. 

 

If the Boat is elsewhere its going to need cranes both ends and a large transporter wagon. All of these pieces of machinery will need proper roadways. 

 

I wouldn't touch it with a largepole. 

 

 

32 minutes ago, Owen Green said:

 

For background, I need to sell my house and have been offered a 79ft narrowboat for sale that needs the hull re-plating. 

 

[Machpoint005]

It is my understanding that if a structure has wheels, it is mobile and therefore does not need planning permission. The OP might need pp to live on the site for an extended period though (more than 28 days?)

 

 

[Mad Harold]

If the OP needs planning permission, for a residence, then for practical reasons forget it.

A container or boat on dry land I think will be a nightmare.

Don't know the OP's circumstances or area, but  once after a relationship breakdown I was practically destitute.

Sold everything I had and managed to buy a very cheap old house. (It was £7000) 

If the OP Googles Rightmove in the area wanted, and find the cheapest properties.

Don't know if it's any use to the OP, but Stoke On Trent seems to be the cheapest, as mentioned by TacyD'arth.

There are flats for sale for as little as £5000, and houses for £10000.

Just to give the OP something to think about.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

One of these is a far more sensible idea, and I can't see a narrowboat being treated differently than this, for PP etc:

 

 

 

 

 

The legal requirements for siting a 'mobile structure' are very very different to a 'non-movable structure'

 

We have a 'static' caravan park and we have to retain the wheels to comply with the 'legal definition of a caravan' to allow us to site them (yes PP was still needed)

 

A container requires more detailed PP because it can not be moved away on its own wheels and there is no law defining a container (we have Containers on site) but, not as much deatil as permanent imovable structure.

 

Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 (legislation.gov.uk)

 

You may argue that a container or NB may comply with the following, but I wouldn't want to try .......

 

Appendix 2: Definition of a caravan

Section 29 of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960

“caravan” means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, but does not include:

(a) any railway rolling stock which is for the time being on rails forming part of a railway system, or
(b) any tent;

Edited February 2 by Alan de Enfield

[Owen Green]

So if I put wheels on a narrowboat it might be a caravan! 🤣

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

This country is changing fast isn't it.

Almost anything eading downhill tends to accelerate... 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Owen Green said:

So if I put wheels on a narrowboat it might be a caravan! 🤣

 

You may jest .......................

There was a well publicised legal case a couple (?) of years ago where a marina owner had some arrangement going avoiding some payment (maybe Council Tax ?). The boats were actually Mobile Homes sat on floats in the marina.

 

I seem to rememember they won the case as the judge accepted that if the 'floats' were drawn up alongside the bank the "caravan" hitch could be connected to a vehicle and it could be moved.

 

Maybe someone cleverer than I could find the thread discussing it.

[ditchcrawler]

Surly even in the non CRT water it will require planning consent for a residential mooring ?

[magnetman]

Was that on the Great Ouse somewhere down Huntingdon way?

Hartford marina

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

29 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Was that on the Great Ouse somewhere down Huntingdon way?

Hartford marina

 

 

 

 

Thats the one (The RAF man)

 

From memory they were static caravans on the 'floats' but all of the pictures and newspaper articles of the time seem to be unavailable.

 

Crown court found they were not 'vessels' and on appeal the deciosn was upheld.

 

The Case Stated does not identify with complete clarity the basis on which it was concluded that the houseboats were not vessels. It is however sufficiently clear that the court did not accept that they could be described as vessels within the ordinary meaning of the word, and concluded that they were not capable of being vessels within the statutory definition. They were entitled to reach that conclusion, and in my view were correct to do so. It follows that in my judgment, the question posed in the Case Stated should be answered in the affirmative, and this appeal should accordingly be dismissed.

 

 

Caravan on Flosts is not a vessel court case15_April_2016.pdf

[Paul C]

4 hours ago, Owen Green said:

A local landowner has offered some next to the water land to pop it on, so I’m investigating what this would mean in terms of bringing it about and then of living a reasonably sustainable lifestyle.

 

As a wild guess, is this registered as agricultural land? And if so, how much (ie area and £ price)? There's a route with an ag tie but its going to need MUCH more evidence than I think you have - for example, it would need to be a big area and you'd need to demonstrate a viable business plan and the need for a permanent dwelling there.

 

If its just a case of its ag land but he's offering it on the downlow, then you're going to be limited to 28 days/year use.

[Owen Green]

Thanks, yes, agricultural land. Not sure I want it on the down low, would like to do things properly. What do you mean by an Ag tie?