What are the latest views on the usage of Easy Start

[GBW]

My 1.5 BMC in benign temperatures starts fairly easily and, once warmed up, starts instantly, however, in current conditions, ~10°C, it is very reluctant even with one minute of glow plug usage (yes, I know they are working as I monitor the current).

Remembering the cautions about the use of Easy Start, I did try a quick squirt into the air intake and was amazed at the instant start resulting.

What are current views on the possibility of engine damage from its usage?

[Tonka]

3 minutes ago, GBW said:

My 1.5 BMC in benign temperatures starts fairly easily and, once warmed up, starts instantly, however, in current conditions, ~10°C, it is very reluctant even with one minute of glow plug usage (yes, I know they are working as I monitor the current).

Remembering the cautions about the use of Easy Start, I did try a quick squirt into the air intake and was amazed at the instant start resulting.

What are current views on the possibility of engine damage from its usage?

I was of the belief that once you start using easy start then you always have to use easy start as the engine becomes addicted to easy start. I am sure some experts will be along shortly to answer 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, GBW said:

My 1.5 BMC in benign temperatures starts fairly easily and, once warmed up, starts instantly, however, in current conditions, ~10°C, it is very reluctant even with one minute of glow plug usage (yes, I know they are working as I monitor the current).

Remembering the cautions about the use of Easy Start, I did try a quick squirt into the air intake and was amazed at the instant start resulting.

What are current views on the possibility of engine damage from its usage?

 

What current are you seeing? 1.5 glow plugs tend to carbon up which causes poor cold starting, if you have never had them out and decarbonised the holes come back for more info.

 

Personally I would prefer a blowlamp up the air intake unless it has a plastic mesh or paper and plastic air filter.

 

The danger comes in two forms, both related to excess application:

 

1. If the vapour ignites much before the injection starts, the piston can be caused to almost sop dead. This can snap rings and the lands between the piston rings making starting even more difficult.

 

2. Squirting a lot into the cylinder might wash the oil off the bores, leading to excess wear and even worse starting.

 

The blowlamp will cause no potential damage as long as you are careful.

[kevinl]

No expert here and I don't have a can of easy start to hand, but I seem to remember it says not to use on diesel engines. Don't know why, it might be because of the compression ratio being much higher than a petrol engine, if you blow a hole in a piston... expensive repair.

K

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Tonka said:

I was of the belief that once you start using easy start then you always have to use easy start as the engine becomes addicted to easy start. I am sure some experts will be along shortly to answer 

 

metal can't become addicted to anything. This probably comes from the fact engines that need Easystart are knackered anyway so only get worse, or from the damage I described in my last post

[kevinl]

Engine s have feeling too...not.

K

[tree monkey]

3 minutes ago, kevinl said:

No expert here and I don't have a can of easy start to hand, but I seem to remember it says not to use on diesel engines. Don't know why, it might be because of the compression ratio being much higher than a petrol engine, if you blow a hole in a piston... expensive repair.

K

Like you I am no expert but I've seen plenty of small (largely knackered  and abused) diesel tractors encouraged with easy start over the years, with no apparent issues

[Stilllearning]

I agree with Tony, one can't control when the easy start will explode, and that is Not a Good Thing. A blow torch up the air intake is a much better way, but as Tony also says, do check the cleanliness of the heaters - carefully!

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, kevinl said:

No expert here and I don't have a can of easy start to hand, but I seem to remember it says not to use on diesel engines. Don't know why, it might be because of the compression ratio being much higher than a petrol engine, if you blow a hole in a piston... expensive repair.

K

A petrol engine has lower compression ratio and the intake air is already mixed with fuel, so you're just adding some more volatile fuel to it -- chances are it'll still be ignited by the spark plug as intended.

 

A diesel engine has much higher compression ratio and normally is only compressing air which can't ignite until the fuel is injected around top dead centre. If you use easy start then there's a good chance the mixture will pre-ignite before TDC, which can cause engine damage.

 

So it's definitely more risky using it on a diesel engine. OTOH the manufacturers say otherwise, diesel engines are pretty robust, and many people have used it occasionally with no ill effects -- as well as some who've (allegedly) wrecked engines. But only use a brief spray, not half a can -- and if you're using it often, the engine needs fixing.

Edited January 4 by IanD

[dmr]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

metal can't become addicted to anything. This probably comes from the fact engines that need Easystart are knackered anyway so only get worse, or from the damage I described in my last post

 

The theory that I have heard is that all the coke round the rings is helping with the compression. East start can give a fierce combustion that can dislodge the crabon, thus reducing the (already low) compression resulting in the engine becoming even harder to start...hence the addiction 😀

3 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

I agree with Tony, one can't control when the easy start will explode, and that is Not a Good Thing. A blow torch up the air intake is a much better way, but as Tony also says, do check the cleanliness of the heaters - carefully!

 

There are so many oid BMC's struggling to start, I am surprised that nobody has produced an after market manifold heater.

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

The theory that I have heard is that all the coke round the rings is helping with the compression. East start can give a fierce combustion that can dislodge the crabon, thus reducing the (already low) compression resulting in the engine becoming even harder to start...hence the addiction 😀

 

It's a theory, whether there's any real evidence is another matter. Normal diesel engine combustion at startup is pretty fierce anyway, the peak chamber pressure is way higher than a petrol engine which is one reason for the typical diesel sound (and the robust engine build), so whether easy start makes this any worse is debatable. As usual with things that people have heard (on the internet or elsewhere), some actual evidence would be useful... 😉

Edited January 4 by IanD
"at startup" added for clarification

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, dmr said:

 

The theory that I have heard is that all the coke round the rings is helping with the compression. East start can give a fierce combustion that can dislodge the crabon, thus reducing the (already low) compression resulting in the engine becoming even harder to start...hence the addiction 😀

 

We certainly used to leave the carbon ring around the piston crown when doing a decoked, and I am sure that could be dislodged by the shockwave if the piston stopped dead or detonated (pinked), but I don't see the carbon behind the rings being displaced, even if it cracks. There are all sorts f theories and beliefs, but I think the best plan is to avoid it and if you really must use it, follow the instructions on the can faithfully and use sparingly.

[kevinl]

My engines addicted to smoking, just like me.

K

[Stilllearning]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

The theory that I have heard is that all the coke round the rings is helping with the compression. East start can give a fierce combustion that can dislodge the crabon, thus reducing the (already low) compression resulting in the engine becoming even harder to start...hence the addiction 😀

 

There are so many oid BMC's struggling to start, I am surprised that nobody has produced an after market manifold heater.

My first boat had a Lister LPWS4 with manifold heater, no glow plugs, and always started even with thick ice round the boat and mooring lines freezing if I was careless enough to drop one in the cut - damhik. 

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

It's a theory, whether there's any real evidence is another matter. Normal diesel engine combustion is pretty fierce anyway, the peak chamber pressure is way higher than a petrol engine which is one reason for the typical diesel sound (and the robust engine build), so whether easy start makes this any worse is debatable. As usual with things that people have heard (on the internet or elsewhere), some actual evidence would be useful... 😉

 

This is often said but is it actually true? In a previous life I did measure cylinder pressure in quite a few engines and diesels (at all conditions) and petrols on wide open throttle all come out at about 60 bar.

At idle and part load the diesel has much higher pressure than the petrol, and its rate of pressure rise rather than peak pressure that is audible.

[IanD]

55 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

The theory that I have heard is that all the coke round the rings is helping with the compression. East start can give a fierce combustion that can dislodge the crabon, thus reducing the (already low) compression resulting in the engine becoming even harder to start...hence the addiction 😀

 

There are so many oid BMC's struggling to start, I am surprised that nobody has produced an after market manifold heater.

The one boat we hired which needed Easy Start -- even in not particularly cold weather, September IIRC -- did have an old smoky BMC fitted, courtesy of the infamously bad Gregory's Canal Cruisers. We probably had more breakdowns in a week than all the other hire boats put together... 😞

 

43 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

This is often said but is it actually true? In a previous life I did measure cylinder pressure in quite a few engines and diesels (at all conditions) and petrols on wide open throttle all come out at about 60 bar.

At idle and part load the diesel has much higher pressure than the petrol, and its rate of pressure rise rather than peak pressure that is audible.

 

I meant at startup, which is the case being discussed... 😉

Edited January 4 by IanD

[dmr]

3 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

My first boat had a Lister LPWS4 with manifold heater, no glow plugs, and always started even with thick ice round the boat and mooring lines freezing if I was careless enough to drop one in the cut - damhik. 

 

You dropped your manifold heater in the cut???? 😀

 

We got our boat with a very sick and low compression JD3 and it was a pig to start when cold. The JD does have a fitting for an (electric) manifold heater and by an amazing co-incidence I was given a suitable heater. It worked amazingly well.

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

This is often said but is it actually true? In a previous life I did measure cylinder pressure in quite a few engines and diesels (at all conditions) and petrols on wide open throttle all come out at about 60 bar.

At idle and part load the diesel has much higher pressure than the petrol, and its rate of pressure rise rather than peak pressure that is audible.

 

Yes, it is the pressure peak caused by the delay in the fuel igniting resulting in a lot igniting very quickly, but from then on I think the diesel cycle has less pressure rise and operates closer to the constant pressure cycle than a petrol engine. This is because the fuel is introduced into the cylinder over a period of time, rather than all at once as in a traditional petrol engine. (Don't know enough about direct petrol injection engines).

[Tonka]

23 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

The theory that I have heard is that all the coke round the rings is helping with the compression. East start can give a fierce combustion that can dislodge the crabon, thus reducing the (already low) compression resulting in the engine becoming even harder to start...hence the addiction 😀

 

There are so many oid BMC's struggling to start, I am surprised that nobody has produced an after market manifold heater.

I think that you could buy a manifold heater for a Bukh engine. My father-in-law fitted one to his 

@Tony Brooks may know more having had a Bukh engine

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tonka said:

I think that you could buy a manifold heater for a Bukh engine. My father-in-law fitted one to his 

@Tony Brooks may know more having had a Bukh engine

 

I know my DV36 had a plug in the manifold to allow such a fitment. As they are Danish, so located closer to the Arctic circle than the UK, I would expect that option to be available. I think I have seen one in a DV20. However, I am not sure how easy it would be to drill and tap the BMC manifold to suit such plugs.

[agg221]

Thermostarts may be a good option. Retro-fitting them to Kelvins is relatively common, to replace the petrol start (Kelvins not generally liking starting directly on diesel). They seem to work pretty well and are a bit more controlled than a blowtorch up the inlet, although I have done the latter to get around a failed magneto, with success.

 

Alec

[magpie patrick]

Those with longer memories may recall I used Easy Start to get Lutine Bell home in 2017, every start from Reading to Bath was assisted by the stuff. I always intended this as "get home" not a long term solution. I also used it to get an elderly Mercedes engine in a fishing boat started as time and tide wasn't on our side. 

 

The main thing to note is the Easy Start does not fix the problem. It gets the engine started but if it is needed once on a cold start it is probably always needed on a cold start - it addresses the symptom not the cause. This isn't the engine being addicted, it is the engine being knackered. Lutine's Lister ST2 also needed a daily oil change - it wasn't addicted to oil it was just using a lot of the stuff. 

 

There is a song out there with the line "a daily oil change and a can of Easy Start" - the song is titled Lutine Bell, and inspired by real life events!

27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I know my DV36 had a plug in the manifold to allow such a fitment. As they are Danish, so located closer to the Arctic circle than the UK, I would expect that option to be available. I think I have seen one in a DV20. However, I am not sure how easy it would be to drill and tap the BMC manifold to suit such plugs.

 

Pedant alert - Denmark is about the same latitude as Scotland, but if diesel engines were made in Inverness I'd expect them to have manifold heaters...

[Tacet]

I had a Ford Transit with a York2.4D for several years.  It was fitted with a thermostart on the inlet manifold but would never deign to start on the first occasion each day.

 

There was also an aftermarket cab operated Easystart (well, either) which did the trick.  The engine was otherwise fine (if noisy) and the regular use of ether did not seem to cause any problems.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Tacet said:

I had a Ford Transit with a York2.4D for several years.  It was fitted with a thermostart on the inlet manifold but would never deign to start on the first occasion each day.

 

There was also an aftermarket cab operated Easystart (well, either) which did the trick.  The engine was otherwise fine (if noisy) and the regular use of ether did not seem to cause any problems.

 

I think the ether canister type cold start device are designed to limit the speed and volume delivered to the manifold, whereas an aerosol relies upon the operator to avoid over spraying it.

[Sailbadthesinner]

We used to use burning newspaper to start tractors on a frosty morning. Worked a treat