Wood burning and health

[IanD]

Since I know this is close to many boaters hearts, I thought I'd bring some of the latest research to people's attention. Though I suspect many won't want to know, either because it's in the Grauniad, or they just don't want to be told about PM2.5 pollution and its effects on health from those wokerati experts, especially in that there Lunnon hellhole... 😉

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/15/pollutionwatch-health-cost-of-burning-wood-to-warm-homes

 

https://woodburning.london/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/London-Wood-Burning-Health-Impact-Evaluation-Technical-Report.pdf

 

"Summary of outdoor air pollution findings
The study finds that the contribution to PM2.5 concentrations across the Greater London region from
the burning of wood and coal and oil:
• Reduces life expectancy at birth for all persons of around 3 weeks (assuming individuals are
exposed to air pollutant concentrations over their lifetime)
• Is associated with an effect on mortality equivalent to 284 deaths each year, at typical ages of
death in 2019 in the UK (implying an average loss of life of around 11 years per death)"

 

It's worth noting that some of the worst health effects are on the stove owners/users, not all those non-boaters outside who obviously don't matter... 😞

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by IanD

[frangar]

Life is fatal. I’d rather enjoy mine and be warm while I’m alive.

 

I shall continue to burn what’s to hand…fuel my vintage diesel with good old dinosaurs and drive my 45 year old Land Rover….

 

Maybe there would be less pollution if some didn’t think they had a right to add to the worlds population continually. 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

Life is fatal. I’d rather enjoy mine and be warm while I’m alive.

I'm with frangar and will carry on with my woodburner as it consumes an old ash tree over the next few years.

The amount of fuel burnt getting everyone to the COP talks and back (twice in some cases so another vote could be counted) probably outweighed every woodburner on a boat. What happens when skint people get shovelled into badly insulated houses with no chimneys is that they can't afford any form of heating, get cold, ill and cost th e NHS a fortune. Shortsighted and stupid.

Pollution is largely caused by people making money out of it - check your local river. As for heating, that's just profiteering by the power companies (and why so many went broke, and got bailed out by the rest of us, while they chuckled over their dividends). The last thing they want is people burning free fuel. It doesn't grow on trees, you know...

[system 4-50]

Humph.  My neighbour, not a boat, has a woodburner as their main heating.  Despite the high chimney, when the wind is in the wrong direction, the smoke comes straight down and into my house and makes breathing difficult when they start up.  Most of the time it is not a problem but just now and again it is awful.

[Mike Tee]

As the old saying goes 'Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway'

[magnetman]

Its remarkable humans have survived so long and demonstrated a continuous ability to increase in number.

 

I don't think burning wood is a particularly new thing.

 

 

If all the weak specimens died and the ones who can tolerate a bit of pollution survived then the world would consist of strong and durable people.

 

Whats not to like?

 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Its remarkable humans have survived so long and demonstrated a continuous ability to increase in number.

 

I don't think burning wood is a particularly new thing.

 

 

If all the weak specimens died and the ones who can tolerate a bit of pollution survived then the world would consist of strong and durable people.

 

Whats not to like?

 

Go and tell this girl's mum that, if you're brave enough... 😞

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/16/girls-death-contributed-to-by-air-pollution-coroner-rules-in-landmark-case

[magnetman]

There will always be things which happen.

 

I'm not buying into the 'go and tell this girls mum that'.

 

 

Thats an idiotic argument. Like saying all car drivers should 'go and tell this girls mum that its okay to be driving a car' because cars kill a lot of people.

 

 

 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

There will always be things which happen.

 

I'm not buying into the 'go and tell this girls mum that'.

 

Thats an idiotic argument. Like saying all car drivers should 'go and tell this girls mum that its okay to be driving a car' because cars kill a lot of people.

 

 

Your crass comment was:

 

"If all the weak specimens died and the ones who can tolerate a bit of pollution survived then the world would consist of strong and durable people."

 

Easy to say, big man. Now go and face up to somebody who has suffered as a result, and let's see you repeat it... 😞

[magnetman]

Oh dear.

 

 

I'm going to have a heck of a lot of people to see in this scenario !

 

Is this particular parent known to be a little fierce or are you profiling.

 

[frangar]

17 minutes ago, IanD said:

Go and tell this girl's mum that, if you're brave enough... 😞

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/16/girls-death-contributed-to-by-air-pollution-coroner-rules-in-landmark-case

Do you have their contact details?  It’s a bit like covid being blamed for all deaths the other year….some love a hook to hang things on. 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, frangar said:

Do you have their contact details?  It’s a bit like covid being blamed for all deaths the other year….some love a hook to hang things on. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

Go and tell this girl's mum that, if you're brave enough... 😞

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/16/girls-death-contributed-to-by-air-pollution-coroner-rules-in-landmark-case

 

But using this emotive event to promote support for the purpose of demonising stove owners (and diesel car drivers) generally alienates people as it comes across as 'lecturing' in a ooooh 'think of the children' kinda way.

 

Personally we are were we are. We have a stove but have no plans to remove it not least because we invested a significant amount of money into it over five years ago when there wasn't really all the 'noise' about the harmful affects. Would we get one installed now? no we probably wouldn't so in the mean time all we can realistically do is maintain it correctly, use it properly (eg we no longer 'leave it in' overnight) and burn wood that is 'ready to burn' certified. Ditto on the solid fuel we use.

 

Much the same as if I was buying a new car now, I would not be buying a Diesel assuming I can find a replacement that meets all my requirements which when you look at some of the engine specs of new cars is going to be a challenge.

[magnetman]

 

It was quite funny when the kids came to the boat the other day after school. I had a little bit of smoke issuing from the tiny chimney and the older one idly exclaimed "Papa, are you trying to kill us with the smoke?"

 

I was amused by this as I think they know I would secretly like to have a life free of the encumbrance of children.

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Your crass comment was:

 

"If all the weak specimens died and the ones who can tolerate a bit of pollution survived then the world would consist of strong and durable people."

 

Easy to say, big man. Now go and face up to somebody who has suffered as a result, and let's see you repeat it... 😞

 

You're taking yourself far too seriously again. 

 

Why should anyone want to or have to "face people who've suffered" simply for having an opinion? If we took that approach for everything in life we'd have a hell of a lot of people to ask forgiveness from.

 

I'm sure even you have views on certain issues that people would disagree with because they've personally suffered the consequences of what you believe. Are you ready to face all those people? There's no perfect way in life, we're all plodding along trying to do the best we can. I'm afraid yours is a bit of a religious "atonement for one's sins" mindset.

[magnetman]

I know this doesn't count for the women. I would have to become very  socially distant from their mum if I killed them. She would not be happy at all.

 

 

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I know this doesn't count for the women. I would have to become very  socially distant from their mum if I killed them. She would not be happy at all.

 

 

You need to find a woman who doesn’t feel the need to breed!! Makes life much easier. 

[magnetman]

Maybe one could suggest that a parent is being irresponsible bringing up a child 30 metres away from the South Circular road which is a terrifically busy highway.

 

This particular story sounds a bit like pollution from cars not pollution from wood burners.

 

Move to Margate and the pollution level will be a lot lower.

 

 

[GUMPY]

30 minutes ago, IanD said:

Go and tell this girl's mum that, if you're brave enough... 😞

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/16/girls-death-contributed-to-by-air-pollution-coroner-rules-in-landmark-case

It was air pollution but mainly from cars.

Are you one of the guilty ones that drive a diesel car?

Or do you use park and ride so as not to pollute in cities and towns🥱

[frangar]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Move to Margate and the pollution level will be a lot lower.

 

 

I’ve been to Margate….think I’d just want to end it all if lived there. 

[magnetman]

Its better than living beside the A205 though to be fair.

 

 

Debatable I suppose. If you get a Vespa it can help.

 

 

 

Former Thames lock keeper friend of mine lives in Margate he seems fine with it the wife is a Sainsbury manager and a son also works for them in the area.

 

Cheap houses down there.

 

For a Reason !

 

 

Another way of looking at it is that the use of low emissions zones causes heavy and dirty traffic to concentrate on the boundaries.

 

So in effect those who are in charge, who no doubt live in pleasant leafy urban roads with no traffic, are killing other people's children by formulating policies to lower pollution in central city areas.

 

 

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

But using this emotive event to promote support for the purpose of demonising stove owners (and diesel car drivers) generally alienates people as it comes across as 'lecturing' in a ooooh 'think of the children' kinda way.

 

Personally we are were we are. We have a stove but have no plans to remove it not least because we invested a significant amount of money into it over five years ago when there wasn't really all the 'noise' about the harmful affects. Would we get one installed now? no we probably wouldn't so in the mean time all we can realistically do is maintain it correctly, use it properly (eg we no longer 'leave it in' overnight) and burn wood that is 'ready to burn' certified. Ditto on the solid fuel we use.

 

Much the same as if I was buying a new car now, I would not be buying a Diesel assuming I can find a replacement that meets all my requirements which when you look at some of the engine specs of new cars is going to be a challenge.

 

You're missing the point -- I'm not demonising anybody for burning wood, just pointing out the facts -- you know, those horrible things that people don't like facing sometimes... 😉

 

What I was calling him out for was his crass insensitive comment which was basically "If they're sick, let 'em die, it'll improve the race".

[magnetman]

To be fair it would improve the race.

 

With climate change the humans are looking at a pretty awkward future. Russia v Ukraine is an early climate change war. These wars will spread all over as population increases.

 

What do you want for population control?

 

War

 

Weak specimens removed

 

I think I know which works better for the human race.

 

 

One of these two outcomes is just around the corner.

 

 

[IanD]

18 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

It was air pollution but mainly from cars.

Are you one of the guilty ones that drive a diesel car?

Or do you use park and ride so as not to pollute in cities and towns🥱

So I guess you didn't read the original article I posted or the 86-page detailed analysis, then? PM2.5 are now recognised as one of the biggest pollution health hazards, and woodburners are the biggest source of these -- 3x bigger than road traffic (almost entirely from diesel vehicles).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/eco-wood-stoves-emit-pollution-hgv-ecodesign

 

No I don't drive a diesel car, and I mostly use public transport to get around.

Edited December 15, 2023 by IanD

[mrsmelly]

When my house was made fully residential 22 years ago the numpties took the chimney breasts out downstairs, only leaving the upstairs fires available which were blocked off  Hence I cannot have a lovely wood burner without vast expense and/or ruining the look of the house with a bolt on chimney jobby, hence the only smell I can make is from the oil central heating!! I luuuuuuuuuuurv wood burners