Harecastle Tunnel closed till further notice

[Arthur Marshall]

Just now, IanD said:

Maybe a knee-jerk reaction to the unfortunate death there several years ago of a steerer who fell off the stern and drowned?

 

I say "knee-jerk" because the risk in Harecastle is no different to many other tunnels which don't have a rescue boat...

It's had the boat there as long as I've been going through, well before the death. Maybe because of the need for the fan? The coal boat engine nearly packed up with the fumes when they forgot to turn the fan on.

Are the other long tunnels double width?

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Wasn't that in Gosty Hill tunnel?

 

 

No, it was the Harecastle. Apparently the family only realised when the boat emerged without him. You'd have thought they'd hsve noticed it crashing into the walls.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's had the boat there as long as I've been going through, well before the death. Maybe because of the need for the fan? The coal boat engine nearly packed up with the fumes when they forgot to turn the fan on.

Are the other long tunnels double width?

No, it was the Harecastle. Apparently the family only realised when the boat emerged without him. You'd have thought they'd hsve noticed it crashing into the walls.

 

I'm pretty sure there was one in Gosty Hill too. Where the roofline drops, the chap was knocked off his suicide seat by it. 

[ditchcrawler]

24 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Wasn't that in Gosty Hill tunnel?

 

 

I think one got stuck in there for some time just like the one stuck in Preston Brook. or the two that met in the next one along

22 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm pretty sure there was one in Gosty Hill too. Where the roofline drops, the chap was knocked off his suicide seat by it. 

I am always amazed there is no height gauge at the entrance.

[Captain Pegg]

The difference is that in Harecastle if you get stuck you’re entirely reliant on the forced ventilation for your safety.

 

If you consider there are three long narrow bored tunnels on the network - Harecastle, Dudley and Standedge - the arrangements for Harecastle are the least onerous by far.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[dmr]

 

11 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's had the boat there as long as I've been going through, well before the death. Maybe because of the need for the fan? The coal boat engine nearly packed up with the fumes when they forgot to turn the fan on.

Are the other long tunnels double width?

No, it was the Harecastle. Apparently the family only realised when the boat emerged without him. You'd have thought they'd hsve noticed it crashing into the walls.

 

I am amazed at the number of false stories this sad accident continues to generate.

8 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

The difference is that in Harecastle if you get stuck you’re entirely reliant on the forced ventilation for your safety.

 

If you consider there are three long narrow bored tunnels on the network - Harecastle, Dudley and Standedge - the arrangements for Harecastle are the least onerous by far.

Hadn't thought about this, is the rescue boat electric?  Although unlikely a failed fan and stuck boats would be a very difficult and dangerous incident.

[Captain Pegg]

27 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

 

I am amazed at the number of false stories this sad accident continues to generate.

Hadn't thought about this, is the rescue boat electric?  Although unlikely a failed fan and stuck boats would be a very difficult and dangerous incident.

I don’t know tbh. Too busy avoiding hitting it to look when I’ve passed through!

 

The question asked was along the lines of “what’s different about Harecastle?” and that’s the answer.

 

 

[MtB]

11 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

The difference is that in Harecastle if you get stuck you’re entirely reliant on the forced ventilation for your safety.

 

 

Can we expand on this please?

 

Presumably then, there are no ventilation shafts in Harecastle, but there are in Gosty Hill. Yes? 

 

If not the case, why are we boaters "entirely reliant on the forced ventilation" in one tunnel but not in the other?

 

Thanks.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

11 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

The difference is that in Harecastle if you get stuck you’re entirely reliant on the forced ventilation for your safety.

 

If you consider there are three long narrow bored tunnels on the network - Harecastle, Dudley and Standedge - the arrangements for Harecastle are the least onerous by far.

Don’t Dudley and Standegde always have some electric trip boats at one end? which I guess could be used as rescue boats if ever needed.

 

[Captain Pegg]

39 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Can we expand on this please?

 

Presumably then, there are no ventilation shafts in Harecastle, but there are in Gosty Hill. Yes? 

 

If not the case, why are we boaters "entirely reliant on the forced ventilation" in one tunnel but not in the other?

 

Thanks.

Correct, Gosty Hill has a ventilation shaft and is only 500 meters long.

 

Harecastle is over five times longer and has none, hence the forced ventilation.

 

The main body of Dudley Tunnel is shorter than Harecastle IIRC and has no ventilation shafts. Hence powered craft that produce emissions are not permitted in there at all. In common with Standedge passage also has to be accompanied.

 

The requirements to keep Harecastle navigable pretty much ‘on demand’ are not inconsiderable.

 

To answer Glenn’s question you have to be accompanied by an electric boat through Dudley. And yes I guess the trip boat at Marsden could - and maybe officially does - double as a rescue boat. Although I think evacuation on foot through the adits to the accompanying road vehicle is perhaps the method.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Captain Pegg said:

Correct, Gosty Hill has a ventilation shaft and is only 500 meters long.

 

Thanks. 

 

I've only done Gosty Hill once, and it felt more like 5,000m. Possibly because I had to stop at the roof height change to retrieve my top hat, which it unexpectedly removed from my head. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Gosty has a lovely air shaft,

With some proper cut stone making a wonderful finish to it,

 

The tunnel is also short, so not an impossibility to pole the boat out, and/or see another boat blocking the tunnel

 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Thanks. 

 

I've only done Gosty Hill once, and it felt more like 5,000m. Possibly because I had to stop at the roof height change to retrieve my top hat, which it unexpectedly removed from my head. 

 

Maybe you shouldn't have been standing up wearing it while insouciantly smoking a cigar and standing next to a massive pile of anchor chains.

 

Hang on, maybe that was someone else... 😉

[MtB]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Maybe you shouldn't have been standing up wearing it while insouciantly smoking a cigar and standing next to a massive pile of anchor chains.

 

Hang on, maybe that was someone else... 😉

 

No, that's me!

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

50 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Thanks. 

 

I've only done Gosty Hill once, and it felt more like 5,000m. Possibly because I had to stop at the roof height change to retrieve my top hat, which it unexpectedly removed from my head. 

 

 

 

At best you're likely to max out at 1.5mph in Gosty Hill tunnel.

 

Hold on, you’ve only done it once?

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Stroudwater1]

Is the fan really necessary though I wonder? I suspect it isn’t but neither I nor my canary would like to test it. 

Presumably pollution assessments have improved since the 1950s, when I think they were installed and the tunnel has had towpath removal too which slightly increases ventilation. 

 

Seems like the fans began just as canal usage dropped leaving 40 or so years of powered working boats going through before installation, or were boats pulled through with special tugs? 
 

 

[BEngo]

 

Having once shafted myself out of Gorsty Hill after an engine stopping bladeful I can say it was bloody hard work.

 

The low roof stretch was a real pain, because there isn't really room for a long  shaft.

 

N

1 minute ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Is the fan really necessary though I wonder? I suspect it isn’t but neither I nor my canary would like to test it. 

Presumably pollution assessments have improved since the 1950s, when I think they were installed and the tunnel has had towpath removal too which slightly increases ventilation. 

 

Seems like the fans began just as canal usage dropped leaving 40 or so years of powered working boats going through before installation, or were boats pulled through with special tugs? 
 

 

The Telford tunnel had an electric tug for the first half of the twentieth century. Firstly a battery boat then an overhead wire

  Rolt describes a journey in "Narrow Boat", as does John Knill in " John Knill's Navy".    When the wire  system/,tug boat wore out in the 50's BW built the fan house at the South end.  To make the fans work properly BW also sealed off all the connections to the old coal workings and to the Brindley tunnel.

 

I can also recommend the book Harecastle's canal and  Railway Tunnels, from Lightmoor Press.

 

N

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

At best you're likely to max out at 1.5mph in Gosty Hill tunnel.

 

Hold on, you’ve only done it once?

 

 

🤣

 

I'm not very good at counting....

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

4 hours ago, dmr said:

 

 

I am amazed at the number of false stories this sad accident continues to generate.

 

Amazed you may well be, but that's what I was told by the tunnel keeper a few weeks ago.

32 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Is the fan really necessary though I wonder? I suspect it isn’t but neither I nor my canary would like to test it. 

Presumably pollution assessments have improved since the 1950s, when I think they were installed and the tunnel has had towpath removal too which slightly increases ventilation. 

 

Seems like the fans began just as canal usage dropped leaving 40 or so years of powered working boats going through before installation, or were boats pulled through with special tugs? 
 

 

The smoke was so thick when I went through last week you could only see few yards in front of the boat until, when the eighth boat went in, the fan started. Going south , they forgot to put it on a year or so back and the coal boat said his engine hated the air so much he thought he wasn't going to get to the end.

[dmr]

47 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Amazed you may well be, but that's what I was told by the tunnel keeper a few weeks ago.

The smoke was so thick when I went through last week you could only see few yards in front of the boat until, when the eighth boat went in, the fan started. Going south , they forgot to put it on a year or so back and the coal boat said his engine hated the air so much he thought he wasn't going to get to the end.

 

I do suspect that the tunnel keepers are the source of some of these stories.

[Arthur Marshall]

Just now, dmr said:

 

I do suspect that the tunnel keepers are the source of some of these stories.

Probably. I don't think the one who told me that story was employed there at the time. I think I'd heard originally that they'd gone back and forward in the tunnel trying to find him, probably just as mythical. There must have been an inquest where the facts came out.

I still find it hard to work out how you can hit your head on the roof in the Harecastle, I'm 6 foot two and I don't have to duck. Maybe my back deck is lower than most boats.

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Probably. I don't think the one who told me that story was employed there at the time. I think I'd heard originally that they'd gone back and forward in the tunnel trying to find him, probably just as mythical. There must have been an inquest where the facts came out.

I still find it hard to work out how you can hit your head on the roof in the Harecastle, I'm 6 foot two and I don't have to duck. Maybe my back deck is lower than most boats.

 

I reckon your back deck is probably low, are you a cruiser stern?. I'm only 5 foot 6 and I have to duck down quite a bit, and those arches within the tunnel are nasty, once the headlight has passed them they are difficult to see. The bloke who died was well over 6 foot and if I remember correctly it was a trad stern boat.

 

 

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

There must have been an inquest where the facts came out.

 

There was probably a MAIB investigation and report too, but these days the MAIB site search doesn't work properly.

 

Or didn't last time I searched for a report I know is there. (The "Drum Major" tragedy.)

[magnetman]

Does the MAIB do canal boat accidents? I thought the Marine part of their acronym referred to tidal waters. 

 

Can't remember. 

 

My ideal job would be a MAIB investigator. Messing About In Boats. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Does the MAIB do canal boat accidents? I thought the Marine part of their acronym referred to tidal waters. 

 

Can't remember. 

 

My ideal job would be a MAIB investigator. Messing About In Boats. 

 

They do. 

 

I also read their report into the Broadmoor Lock tragedy on the southern Oxford a few years ago. Can't find that either!

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Does the MAIB do canal boat accidents? I thought the Marine part of their acronym referred to tidal waters. 

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/maib-reports/contact-and-sinking-of-narrow-boat-drum-major-while-descending-in-steg-neck-lock-on-the-leeds-and-liverpool-canal-near-gargrave-england-with-loss-of-4-lives

 

[Arthur Marshall]

32 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I reckon your back deck is probably low, are you a cruiser stern?. I'm only 5 foot 6 and I have to duck down quite a bit, and those arches within the tunnel are nasty, once the headlight has passed them they are difficult to see. The bloke who died was well over 6 foot and if I remember correctly it was a trad stern boat.

 

 

Must have been, otherwise I can't see how he can have gone off - even if you had a heart attack on mine, the rail would keep you on the deck, which, as you say, is a cruiser stern. Are trads really that much higher? I'd have thought they'd be about the same, just shorter.