No to insuring a narrowboat without an engine.

[R H]

Hello everyone,

 

New to the forum but long-term narrowboats live aboard.

 

I'm hoping light can be shone on to a predicament being experienced by a friend, who also lives on a narrowboat, who is having trouble renewing her insurance.

My friend only wants a third party insurance cover, but has been turned down by several insurers because the narrowboat doesn't have a working engine.

This is strange to me, and I can't think why not having a working engine would be an issue for getting it insured. 

The boat is well maintained with regular surveys, blackening and BSC inspections.

Does anyone know why having no engine (or non-working engine) is an issue, I would be interested to know.

 

Has anyone else experienced this issue for insuring a narrowboat (or other) with no (or non-working) engine?

Surely there are many boats without engines, so I would have thought there would be an insurance cover for these, no?

How do static houseboats manage to get insurance?

It just seems bazaar to me that a no-engine boat is not insurable. 

Does anyone know an insurer that will insure a boat with no (or non-working engine?

 

Any information on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Robert

[nicknorman]

25 minutes ago, R H said:

Hello everyone,

 

New to the forum but long-term narrowboats live aboard.

 

I'm hoping light can be shone on to a predicament being experienced by a friend, who also lives on a narrowboat, who is having trouble renewing her insurance.

My friend only wants a third party insurance cover, but has been turned down by several insurers because the narrowboat doesn't have a working engine.

This is strange to me, and I can't think why not having a working engine would be an issue for getting it insured. 

The boat is well maintained with regular surveys, blackening and BSC inspections.

Does anyone know why having no engine (or non-working engine) is an issue, I would be interested to know.

 

Has anyone else experienced this issue for insuring a narrowboat (or other) with no (or non-working) engine?

Surely there are many boats without engines, so I would have thought there would be an insurance cover for these, no?

How do static houseboats manage to get insurance?

It just seems bazaar to me that a no-engine boat is not insurable. 

Does anyone know an insurer that will insure a boat with no (or non-working engine?

 

Any information on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Robert

If this boat is on a permanent /home mooring then a quick glance at Craftinsure 3rd party policy doesn’t seem to require a working engine. If the boat doesn’t have a home mooring then I can see that insurers might shy away from selling a policy due to the inability to comply with the CCing law and possible 3rd party claim arising from having to remove the boat from the waterways for non-compliance (assuming CRT waterways).

[Tracy D'arth]

I cannot believe that we are getting the full story here.

It is possible to insure a butty which would never have had an engine.

Is the problem because the boat is a residence, not a leisure boat?

[Mike Hurley]

So any boat that breaks down is immediately not insured?

[DShK]

Just insured (third party only) a butty with Basic Boat Liability Insurance. It was no trouble that it had no engine. Didn't even ask for a survey despite her age. Might be worth checking out.

Edited November 2, 2023 by DShK

[Momac]

51 minutes ago, R H said:

no (or non-working) engine?

 

Which is it in this case ?

[ditchcrawler]

No one has ever asked if my engine works, why would they?

[Momac]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No one has ever asked if my engine works, why would they?

For some boats the removal of the engine could make the boat unstable. So that would be a concern for insurers.

But I think we all have a non working engine from time to time . eg when the oil filter is off and the oil has  been extracted . 

 

 

[Clanky]

Renewing? Just stay with the insurer they have now,  they obviously are happy insuring it.

[ditchcrawler]

44 minutes ago, MartynG said:

For some boats the removal of the engine could make the boat unstable. So that would be a concern for insurers.

But I think we all have a non working engine from time to time . eg when the oil filter is off and the oil has  been extracted . 

 

 

But my point is , why would you tell them the engine doesn't work

[haggis]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But my point is , why would you tell them the engine doesn't work

Perhaps angling for cheaper insurance as no working engine to need a claim in the future ? Or am I being cynical 😄

[Momac]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But my point is , why would you tell them the engine doesn't work

Don't know.

Maybe there is no engine. 

[magnetman]

Basic Boat as mentioned above will insure the boat 3rd party which fulfils the requirement of canal licensing. 

 

 

The requirement introduced in the 1995 BW Act that is. 

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

It is possible to insure a butty which would never have had an engine.

I did hear some years ago of an insurer that cancelled a butty policy when they found out the boat had no engine and had never had one. The matter had never been mentioned when the policy was taken out. I can't now remember which butty or what the reasons given were, but I think it may have had something to do with the liabilities associated with being towed. 

Which does make you wonder what the insurer's attitude would be to a motor that regularly tows a butty.

[Lady M]

When a motor and butty are a regular pair, their insurance should cover towing.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Lady M said:

When a motor and butty are a regular pair, their insurance should cover towing.

It should. But if a boater insures two 70 footers, and the insurer knows nothing about working narrow boats, and never even pauses to consider that one of the boats might not have an engine you can't assume that.

[blackrose]

11 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

So any boat that breaks down is immediately not insured?

 

That's good lateral thinking but I think you need to take it a step further. There's possibly a difference between being insured and getting insured.

7 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But my point is , why would you tell them the engine doesn't work

 

Yes, something doesn't add up here.

[DandV]

Is there a relationship between no engine, and the location of the home mooring, or cruising territory?

I could imagine insurers being wary of offering insurance to an unpowered boat on any waterway prone to flooding, mainly rivers,  as they could be unable to mitigate the risk by just moving to a safer mooring ahead of forecast flood risks.

[Lady M]

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

It should. But if a boater insures two 70 footers, and the insurer knows nothing about working narrow boats, and never even pauses to consider that one of the boats might not have an engine you can't assume that.

 

This is true.  When I insured a pair, the insurer endorsed their policies with specific boat names.  So you may need to ask or check.

[spud]

18 hours ago, DShK said:

Just insured (third party only) a butty with Basic Boat Liability Insurance. It was no trouble that it had no engine. Didn't even ask for a survey despite her age. Might be worth checking out.

that is surprising as I thought third party insurance did not allow a boat to tow or be towed,  unless an emergency

[magnetman]

I don't think @DShK has a motor boat. Wasn't the butty purchased with the intent to install electric drive at a later date? 

 

3rd party insurance is a condition of licensing. 

 

 

 

 

[spud]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I don't think @DShK has a motor boat. Wasn't the butty purchased with the intent to install electric drive at a later date? 

 

3rd party insurance is a condition of licensing. 

 

his butty is being towed by his other boat which does have an engine

[magnetman]

Oh right I got mixed up. 

 

I think it is in the small print of the Basic Boat insurance that you are not engaged in towing. 

 

 

However it does not say if you are -being towed- it says if you are -towing something-. 

 

 

[R H]

21 hours ago, nicknorman said:

If this boat is on a permanent /home mooring then a quick glance at Craftinsure 3rd party policy doesn’t seem to require a working engine. If the boat doesn’t have a home mooring then I can see that insurers might shy away from selling a policy due to the inability to comply with the CCing law and possible 3rd party claim arising from having to remove the boat from the waterways for non-compliance (assuming CRT waterways).

Hi 

Thank you for your response.

The boat is on a permanent, residential mooring and, although they have an engine on the boat, it is not a working engine (and unrepairable). Craft Insure were one of the companies that turned them down because it is classed as having no engine. This is the same with many other insurers.

21 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I cannot believe that we are getting the full story here.

It is possible to insure a butty which would never have had an engine.

Is the problem because the boat is a residence, not a leisure boat?

Hi 

Thanks for your response.

Yes, the boat is residential and on a permanent residential mooring. 

I also can't see what the issue is with having no engine.

[magnetman]

Basic Boat Liability company will insure the boat.