Boat batteries

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

If anyone can advise on the best connectors and post sizes that would be helpful. 

 

After your little outburst at Tracy I don't see why I should try to help.  What she and I said and the others is basically true, whatever you may like to think. Sorry I tried to save you spending more money  than you need.

 

To keep things simple, you need the same terminal posts as the existing batteries, otherwise you will be looking at changing the terminals on the cables and that is not so easy for DIY without a heavy duty criming tool. They are probably standard automotive tapered posts, but without any photos how can we know.

 

It will also keep it simple if you ensure that you have the same terminal layout as the existing batteries. That is when looking at the fornt ot back of both old an dnew batteries the posts on both are in the same location.

[truckcab79]

1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

There was an infamous/notorious company called Elecsol who sold slightly expensive batteries with a 5 years guarantee. They had a good reputation based on a very good review in a caravan magazine though it later transpired that their "testing" involved only reading the publicity blurb. A lot of boaters were very impressed with the 5 year guarantee and purchased these batteries.  When trying to return them under guarantee the company generally did not answer the phone. When they did answer they created various hurdles to overcome, if the boater persisted they were simply told to F*** Off.

 

Anyway thanks for the info, I will now buy my beer from Amazon and complain when the bottles get empty 😀

 

 

Anecdotes are great. Companies go out of business and their guarantees go with them. Life is like that.   Doesn’t really help the thread a great deal to be honest.
 

I’m just trying to get some battery and equipment info. So far very little useful has been offered tbh so if you don’t know anything that’s fine but keeps the thread cleaner if you don’t add random info. 
 

Appreciated. 

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

There was an infamous/notorious company called Elecsol who sold slightly expensive batteries with a 5 years guarantee. They had a good reputation based on a very good review in a caravan magazine though it later transpired that their "testing" involved only reading the publicity blurb. A lot of boaters were very impressed with the 5 year guarantee and purchased these batteries.  When trying to return them under guarantee the company generally did not answer the phone. When they did answer they created various hurdles to overcome, if the boater persisted they were simply told to F*** Off.

 

Anyway thanks for the info, I will now buy my beer from Amazon and complain when the bottles get empty 😀

 

 

Ah, dear old Elecsol, on the Wirral.  The last few that they did deign to replace under guarantee were dumped on our drive from a car without any comment before he sped off.  They were the "special" Gold Top replacement ones and were actually OK.

We fitted hundreds in Macclesfield when they first came out, replaced a lot. Oddly some lasted, most didn't.  I think I dumped my last ones some 12 years ago.

 

 

What was the question again?    

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Tracy D'arth

[truckcab79]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

After your little outburst at Tracy I don't see why I should try to help.  What she and I said and the others is basically true, whatever you may like to think. Sorry I tried to save you spending more money  than you need.

 

To keep things simple, you need the same terminal posts as the existing batteries, otherwise you will be looking at changing the terminals on the cables and that is not so easy for DIY without a heavy duty criming tool. They are probably standard automotive tapered posts, but without any photos how can we know.

 

It will also keep it simple if you ensure that you have the same terminal layout as the existing batteries. That is when looking at the fornt ot back of both old an dnew batteries the posts on both are in the same location.

I have the tools. 
 

Swapping like for like is precisely what I said I would do. 
 

Haven’t had a go at you. However Tracey seems to be the very worst of forum contributors on several of my posts.  Nothing useful to add but bitter and negative comments about things which I didn’t ask or are not her concern.  
 

With respect you don’t need to try and save my money for me.  If you have any financial concerns they should only really be about  your own expenditure.  I didn’t ask about the cheapest option. I asked if what I was proposing would cause any issues.  

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

After your little outburst at Tracy I don't see why I should try to help.  What she 

 

I thought Tracy was a man's name..

 

 

Anyway it is worth noting that for the BS scheme one must have the battery terminal clamps with vertical threaded rods on them rather than the old type where you push the bare end of the cable in and clamp it down with a couple of screws. 

 

You have to have crimped terminals on the cables bolted down to the vertical post (M8 thread usually) with a spring washer. 

 

Even better to just buy batteries with the dual terminals and do away with the silly car type tapered posts. 

 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

I’m just trying to get some battery and equipment info. So far very little useful has been offered tbh so if you don’t know anything that’s fine but keeps the thread cleaner if you don’t add random info. 

 

Well you seemed only to ask two really basic questions in your OP. 

 

The first you've since told us you already know the answer to having been a "Retail Director" for 27 years (whatever that is). The second, well it's your money as you acerbically pointed out. Spend it however you wish! 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I thought Tracy was a man's name..

 

 

Anyway it is worth noting that for the BS scheme one must have the battery terminal clamps with vertical threaded rods on them rather than the old type where you push the bare end of the cable in and clamp it down with a couple of screws. 

 

You have to have crimped terminals on the cables bolted down to the vertical post (M8 thread usually) with a spring washer. 

 

Even better to just buy batteries with the dual terminals and do away with the silly car type tapered posts. 

 

 

I think the BSS is happy with clamps PROPERLY soldered to the cables, but that is more difficult than crimping.

[truckcab79]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I thought Tracy was a man's name..

 

 

Anyway it is worth noting that for the BS scheme one must have the battery terminal clamps with vertical threaded rods on them rather than the old type where you push the bare end of the cable in and clamp it down with a couple of screws. 

 

You have to have crimped terminals on the cables bolted down to the vertical post (M8 thread usually) with a spring washer. 

 

Even better to just buy batteries with the dual terminals and do away with the silly car type tapered posts. 

 

Useful Info. Thanks.  
 

Got there eventually.  😂👍

[magnetman]

That makes sense. I've used these ones 

 

 

In the past.

 

 

[dmr]

7 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Anecdotes are great. Companies go out of business and their guarantees go with them. Life is like that.   Doesn’t really help the thread a great deal to be honest.
 

I’m just trying to get some battery and equipment info. So far very little useful has been offered tbh so if you don’t know anything that’s fine but keeps the thread cleaner if you don’t add random info. 
 

Appreciated. 

 

I gave you good useful advice..... do not let a ficticious long guarantee influence your choice of battery.

This is based of 14 years of liveaboard boating and 40 years of electrical engineering.

Also, this is a discussion forum and I will post whatever random crap I choose. We are mostly here to have a bit of fun rather than to educate those who don't want to be educated. 😀

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I gave you good useful advice..... do not let a ficticious long guarantee influence your choice of battery.

This is based of 14 years of liveaboard boating and 40 years of electrical engineering.

Also, this is a discussion forum and I will post whatever random crap I choose. We are mostly here to have a bit of fun rather than to educate those who don't want to be educated. 😀

 

So that's three competent contributors here taken umbrage, plus me. 

 

Great start for a new poster eh? 

[truckcab79]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Well you seemed only to ask two really basic questions in your OP. 

 

The first you've since told us you already know the answer to having been a "Retail Director" for 27 years (whatever that is). The second, well it's your money as you acerbically pointed out. Spend it however you wish! 

 

 

I think that was my point. Asked a couple

of basic questions.  Got two pages of nonsense and financial advice.😂  
 

I was a company director for a large retail department store group since you ask.  My point was more that various unfounded anecdotes about about how companies won’t take back ‘abused’ products isn’t actually true in my experience. They don’t have a legal leg to stand on and can’t or won’t spend the time proving it anyway. Doesn’t mean they won’t try initially but they’ll lose.  Hence my original assertion that I would be covered by a 4 year guarantee. 

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

That makes sense. I've used these ones 

 

 

In the past.

 

 

That’s the sort of thing.  Iva also seen them with multiple posts.  Any real advantage in most scenarios?  

[MtB]

Just now, truckcab79 said:

I was a company director for a large retail department store group since you ask.

 

My condolences. We all have our cross to bear. 

 

 

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Ah, dear old Elecsol, on the Wirral.  The last few that they did deign to replace under guarantee were dumped on our drive from a car without any comment before he sped off.  They were the "special" Gold Top replacement ones and were actually OK.

We fitted hundreds in Macclesfield when they first came out, replaced a lot. Oddly some lasted, most didn't.  I think I dumped my last ones some 12 years ago.

 

 

What was the question again?    

 

 

 

 

In another lifetime it would be very interesting to find out more about the Elecsols. A lot of boaters got on with them really well. I got mine as part of a joint purchase at the marina were we moored (this was a long time ago). They performed quite well for several weeks then all four lost most of their capacity over-night. Would love to know what the failure mode was.

By this stage the wise old men of this forum had finally convinced a very stubborn me that Trojans were the way to go.

[magnetman]

I thought this was about batteries !

[truckcab79]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I gave you good useful advice..... do not let a ficticious long guarantee influence your choice of battery.

This is based of 14 years of liveaboard boating and 40 years of electrical engineering.

Also, this is a discussion forum and I will post whatever random crap I choose. We are mostly here to have a bit of fun rather than to educate those who don't want to be educated. 😀

Please do. It’s your engineering knowledge I would appreciate hearing about.  
 

With equipment questions I’m after informed opinion based on real-world experience rather than discussion.  I’m not pretending to know. Hence why I ask.  

[magnetman]

 

 

I spent some time studying the Trojans and was considering giving them a troy but in the end went for Rolls. 

 

This was before my lovely LTO modules turned up. 

[truckcab79]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

My condolences. We all have our cross to bear. 

 

 

And hence why I no longer am.  👍

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I thought this was about batteries !

It was at one point……and connectors.  Most of the useful info seems to have got lost in the egos and nonsense. 
 

I’ll go and Google ‘best battery’, close my eyes and stick a pin in the screen I think. 😂

 

 

I’m unofficially closing this thread. 
 

😂

Edited October 1, 2023 by truckcab79

[dmr]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

I spent some time studying the Trojans and was considering giving them a troy but in the end went for Rolls. 

 

This was before my lovely LTO modules turned up. 

I think Rolls are just a little better, but Trojans are better value as they sell a lot more of them, and Trojans are just the right size to squash in the little gap between the engine bed and the side of the boat. Finding Lithiums to fill that gap is going to be tricky.

 

I note that nobody here has advised the OP to do a Lithium-Hybrid system.

9 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

And hence why I no longer am.  👍

It was at one point……and connectors.  Most of the useful info seems to have got lost in the egos and nonsense. 
 

I’ll go and Google ‘best battery’, close my eyes and stick a pin in the screen I think. 😂

 

 

I’m unofficially closing this thread. 
 

😂

 

Get the cheapest batteries you can reasonably find, you are going to kill them, and probably the next set too, but you will likely get there in the end.

 

My wife has a cruel saying (stolen from the Matrix?) "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."

Its very true, my engineering knowledge and theory was of limited use when we moved onto the boat, the first hand experience of existing long term liveaboards was much more valuable.

 

You will need some sort of battery monitor and a good understanding of what 100% charge is and how to avoid sulphation.

Your little engine will make life extra difficult.

In the longer term Lithium is looking very atractive but don't go there yet.

[magnetman]

For a small narrow boat I would advocate getting one engine statt battery and one domestic battery both of which are lead acid batteries connected to the domestic services and split charge to engine starter. Nothing special just 100Ah or something each. 

 

In addition I would get a decent 100Ah LFP battery running from a usefully sized solar panel and running an inverter. I'd be looking at about 400w solar and a Victron 100/20 controller. 

The lithium battery would be separate and not wired to the others. Completely independent circuit. 

 

The inverter looks after the low voltage cutout and the solar charges the battery. In summer you get loads of power. 

 

This gives you two separate systems which means redundancy and reliability. Obviously solar works better in summer but this coincides with fridge use and if there is excess from solar you can actually run a charger from the inverter to top up the lead acid batteries. Not efficient but nobody will die and sometimes with big solar panels there is a lot of surplus to be dealt with. 

 

 

That's how I'd do it but having lived on boats for 29 yars I still have no idea how to light a fire (always manage though) !

Edited October 1, 2023 by magnetman

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, dmr said:

My wife has a cruel saying (stolen from the Matrix?) "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."

 

 

And of course one should always remember ............................

 

 

 

[system 4-50]

I agree with a poster above, viz avoid tapered battery posts if at all possible.

Other factors are getting the size of bat to fit your bat space, tedious when websites don't let you select by size, and terminal arrangement.

[DShK]

Trojans are solid batteries (albeit 6 volt) for domestics. As has been mentioned the guarantee won't cover you if you knacker them. Just don't knacker them - it's easy to avoid if you know how and monitor them. Below is a good thread to read.

 

 

For starter, you shouldn't need two. My great big gardner 2lw only needs one. I just use a halfords 80ah battery. Just look for the ones with the highest cold cranking rating and you should be good. 

 

There are definitely some forum members who seem to like to gatekeep and revel in a sense of superiority. You seem to know what you've go yourself into, which seems to be more than can be said for a lot of new boaters. Good on you, you only have one life to live. Enjoy it! When you can get out on the cut, make some friends and pick their brains on some of these problems - it's a lot more rewarding and less toxic than this forum!

[Quattrodave]

14 minutes ago, DShK said:

For starter, you shouldn't need two. My great big gardner 2lw only needs one. I just use a halfords 80ah battery. Just look for the ones with the highest cold cranking rating and you should be good.

 

Agreed.  For a powerful starter battery at good money go to a decent motor factors and ask for a 'back cab battery' probably 70 or 80ah with cca of 800 or 900.

[dmr]

Trojans are big money and likely wont fit in the ops battery tray, and he is very likely to wreck his first set of batteries.

Something like this for the liesure battery:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteries/powerline/xv190mf/

 

Comes with a mythical 4 year warranty though this excludes wear and tear, under charging, over charging, deep cycling, sulphation, and otherwise actually using the battery.

Cycle life not stated but probably about 300.

Op needs to check size of battery tray/current batteries and to note that terminals can be "left or right handed" and if you get the wrong one the cables might be all wrong.

 

most cheaper batteries will come with standard automotive taper posts so get the adaptors suggested by magnetman. Note that the negative and positive terminals will likely need a different adaptor (slightly different post diameter).

 

or if you prefer Halfords there is this:

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/leisure-batteries/yuasa-active-leisure-battery-l36-agm-466926.html?stockInventory=undefined

Only a 2 year guarantee and 400 cyles but over £200 so must be good 😀