Licences

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Absolutely.

To give three examples -

1. A new income stream of charitable giving. British Waterways, not being a charity could not do this.

2. Ability to borrow for investment. Government rules were very restrictive regarding purpose and amount. CRT have borrowed £150m at just under 3% and invested it 

3. Greater freedom of investment. Not restricted to just canalside property, waterways related  and Joint Ventures.



 

👍

 

confirms what I thought

 

although I was a bit unsure of the second one there. 
 

 

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I suggest you have a look at the C&RT annual accounts where they list all of their income streams - everything from museum entry fees, to boat licences and moorings, to charging farmers for water extraction, to charging business the water discharge into the canals, to charity donations, to DEFRA grants, to returns on property investments etc etc.

 

Worth you taking the time and then appearing a little more knowlegable about things.

ooh

sorry, I do read stuff (now and again). 
 

but I also like to….

set ‘em’ up 👍

and start/restart/remind what it’s about

 

 

[magnetman]

Take the money and run. 

(this is how a 90 yar old woman who could barely move described the National Lottery to me)

At the time it was her buying the tickets and me saying it was a tax scam. It is. 

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

Before anyone complains, that's a smaller surcharge for CCers and widebeams than many had predicted... 😉

But I don't think that as yet anyone has shown evidence from CaRT that this is what they intend. All that they have said is that there will be an increase across the board that will be above an inflation figure yet to be made available and that changes will be made to surcharges for certain types of boat/boater. Beyond that, no figures appear to be available.

33 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

All in all so to speak,

have CRT had more opportunity and freedom to ‘make’ money than BW did?

 

And are they missing the opportunity?

 

Not simply license fees but the whole range of income,

from leasing property, access arrangements for utility companies, and so on. 
 

 

One of the big areas for 'making money' is with water in and out. A few years ago, one of the early things that CaRT spotted was that the charges for water in and out had not been properly revised for a long time. After making meaningful market comparisons they introduced much higher charges. It is a sign that they were right as, I believe, most of the customers paid up, knowing that they had had a windfall for a long time. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

20 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

 

One of the big areas for 'making money' is with water in and out. A few years ago, one of the early things that CaRT spotted was that the charges for water in and out had not been properly revised for a long time. After making meaningful market comparisons they introduced much higher charges. It is a sign that they were right as, I believe, most of the customers paid up, knowing that they had had a windfall for a long time. 

and in return, 
we’ve recently found out,
CRT were taking from EA rivers at a discount price and now they have to pay top whack?

[magnetman]

Water in and out?

 

Might this mean tolls for lock passage. Water comes in and goes out. 

 

People may think it depends on whether you are going up or down but it actually doesn't make any difference.

 

They could do a pound a lock and a pound a pound per day. 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, magnetman said:

Water in and out?

 

Might this mean tolls for lock passage. Water comes in and goes out. 

 

People may think it depends on whether you are going up or down but it actually doesn't make any difference.

 

They could do a pound a lock and a pound a pound per day. 

 

is it a cost the benefit office will cover?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Water in and out?

 

Abstraction from their canals, and drainage into them I would imagine.

 

Both (very) chargeable services...

 

 

 

[adam1uk]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I still want to know where these figures have, apparently magically, come from.

Press release sent out this afternoon. 

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

is it a cost the benefit office will cover?

 

The DWP is sometimes nicknamed the Department for Water Preservation so it is possible they may prefer you don't transit through locks. Have you considered not going anywhere as a solution to your boating problems? 

 

 

7 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

Press release sent out this afternoon. 

Who was it sent out to? 

 

I'm a CRT Fiend and a major donor but I don't get it. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

The DWP is sometimes nicknamed the Department for Water Preservation so it is possible they may prefer you don't transit through locks. Have you considered not going anywhere as a solution to your boating problems? 

 

 

I’ve no boating problems. 
Boating’s ace 

It’s everyone else who has the problems 😃

[magnetman]

Given that the only thing humans ever do is basic problem solving activities I would suggest that you do have Boating problems. 

 

Boating is just a way of solving problems you might not even be consciously aware of. 

 

In all cases Boating is problem solving in action. 

 

If there was no problem to solve then you would not be Boating. 

 

I suppose 'Boating related problems' would have been more accurate. 

 

Never forget or sideline the basic fact that Boating is a problem solving activity. Also remember that problems are not all bad. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by magnetman
word count

[Allan(nb Albert)]

23 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

One of the big areas for 'making money' is with water in and out. A few years ago, one of the early things that CaRT spotted was that the charges for water in and out had not been properly revised for a long time. After making meaningful market comparisons they introduced much higher charges. It is a sign that they were right as, I believe, most of the customers paid up, knowing that they had had a windfall for a long time. 

I think in some cases they simply were not charging where a legal basis to do so existed!

Utilities is one of two areas where CRT is over-performing compared to 2012 projections. The other is, of course, boating where non-licence income has outstripped inflation leading to over-performance against the old projections.

BWML, JV's and Charitable Giving have all been disaster areas but projected income for each of these streams was in the millions rather than the tens of millions.

The big disappointment has been CRT's investment assets where it seems that CRT's Group Investment Policy (GIP) has failed to provide the expected returns and cope with recent inflation. 

One of the disturbing aspects of CRT's latest accounts is that the black hole in the pension fund has reappeared with a vengeance.

 

21 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

is it a cost the benefit office will cover?

See my post above. These are charges for water supply and drainage which are part of CRT's "utilities" income stream which includes wayleaves.

 

 

Quote

 

wayleaves

1. a right of way granted by a landowner, generally in exchange for payment and typically for purposes such as the erection of telegraph wires or laying of pipes.

   "companies must have way leaves for work they want to carry out on private land"

 

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Abstraction from their canals, and drainage into them I would imagine.

 

Both (very) chargeable services...

 

 

 

 

Which falls under their 'utilities' reporting and accounts for an income almost as much as boaters provide.

[Arthur Marshall]

30 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

Press release sent out this afternoon. 

Can't find it on CRT website, doesn't appear in Google, link posted above doesn't work. Nothing in the website Media Centre.

Not much of a press release if so well hidden. Maybe it'll turn up tomorrow. Still odd that there's no working link to it.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Arthur Marshall

[magnetman]

For the record my link was a joke. 

[adam1uk]

27 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Who was it sent out to? 

 

I'm a CRT Fiend and a major donor but I don't get it. 

 

 

Journalists on their contact list, I would imagine. 

[magnetman]

I reckon it came from the facebook thing. 

[Momac]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Can't find it on CRT website, doesn't appear in Google, link posted above doesn't work.

Not much of a press release if so well hidden. Maybe it'll turn up tomorrow. Still odd tgat there's no working link to it.

I agree its not listed with other C&RT press releases 

[Arthur Marshall]

Just now, magnetman said:

For the record my link was a joke. 

Thank god for that. I thought my tablet was bust.

Someone's posted it on Facebook. So it must be true.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

2 hours ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

I’m still unsure of your need to generally link boaters without a home mooring to needing the benefit system. 
I’m as likely to meet boaters who are supporting themselves      with work. Any increases in living will come from their pocket not the States.

Maybe @magnetman hangs around with boaters that cant support themselves and need to relay on state benefits to be able to live on a boat, so thinks it’s the norm. Maybe it’s because he’s on a central London residential mooring.

 If I was to give up my moorings and go CCing I would be better off even with the Non-Home Mooring licence surcharge because of my private pension. He seams not to be in a position to go CCing and why does he need to when it’s all paid for him?

Edited October 4, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Alan de Enfield]

Its probably Damien cocked-up again and released it months before its should be released.

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, MartynG said:

I don't think I am alone

 

So your not an MP then...

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I have put CRT's press release up in "Waterways News & Press".

It would appear that CRT have yet to publish on its website and only those on its news distribution list have received it.

[Momac]

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

So your not an MP then...

 

No. I have never been a military policeman.

[magnetman]

9 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Maybe @magnetman hangs around with boaters that cant support themselves and need to relay on state benefits to be able to live on a boat, so thinks it’s the norm. Maybe it’s because he’s on a central London residential mooring.

 If I was to give up my moorings and go CCing I would be better off even with the Non-Home Mooring licence surcharge because of my private pension. He seams not to be in a position to go CCing and why does he need to when it’s all paid for him?

Since you tagged me.

 

I don't hang around with anyone anywhere. Specially not people on boats ! 

 

My circumstances are very unusual for a number of different reasons.  

 

Lets not get too into personal circumstances as I'm sure you can appreciate it gets a bit personal if you know what I mean. 

 

I don't know anyone on a boat anywhere who claims Universal Credit to pay for their boating costs. 

 

Yes i could easily be a cc er if I wanted to. 

 

Be careful taking people too literally on internet forums. 

 

 

 

This is not reality it is simply a board. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

I have put CRT's press release up in "Waterways News & Press".

It would appear that CRT have yet to publish on its website and only those on its news distribution list have received it.

 

NABO have published the details.