Boat sightings

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, Lily Rose said:

Since October 2021 (earliest available data) my boat has been sighted 7 times in the marina and just 3 times elsewhere. 

You need to get out more... 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

GDPR is about personal information that links data to an individual such as email address, unless the sightings data has boat owner information with it I don't see how it can be a GDPR breach.

 

When you licenced your boat you 'signed away your GDPR rights as you agred that C&RT can pass on your personal details to anyone they choose

 

10.12. You agree that We may provide Your relevant personal details including Your contact details such as Your name and address to anyone (or their insurer) who We believe has a legitimate interest to have the details. For example, following an incident or alleged incident involving the Boat where personal injury or damage to property may have occurred.

 

10.13.You agree that where We believe You have failed to comply with the Conditions, We may exchange information relating to You and/or the Boat with third parties who are assisting Us. This may include contractors, mooring providers and individuals or organisations with a legitimate interest or duty in exchanging information about You

 

 

So, I call C&RT and make a request because you (allegedly) hit my boat, C&RT provide me with all your contact details.

Now, knowing that you are 100s of miles away from home, on holiday, on your boat, I know your house is unoccupied ................

Edited September 17, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[magnetman]

Just now, Rob-M said:

No, I thought it was being said that displaying sightings data was a potential breach of GDPR.

 

I don't see how it can be a breach if it is available to logged-in customers who presumably are pre-vetted and established as the boat owner(s). 

 

My comment was about routine use of ANPR cameras on roads where there are no tolls and if you are not speeding. I don't think it happens but maybe it does. 

 

Cameras everywhere these days I even saw one in a rabbit's arse once. 

 

 

 

[Rob-M]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

When you licenced your boat you 'signed away your GDPR rights as you agred that C&RT can pass on your personal details to anyone they choose

 

10.12. You agree that We may provide Your relevant personal details including Your contact details such as Your name and address to anyone (or their insurer) who We believe has a legitimate interest to have the details. For example, following an incident or alleged incident involving the Boat where personal injury or damage to property may have occurred.

 

10.13.You agree that where We believe You have failed to comply with the Conditions, We may exchange information relating to You and/or the Boat with third parties who are assisting Us. This may include contractors, mooring providers and individuals or organisations with a legitimate interest or duty in exchanging information about You

That isn't signing away your rights, that is perfectly legitimate use of GDPR as you are only allowed to do with data you collect what you say you are going to do with it, so you are agreeing that the data they collect may be provided to others when required.

[Momac]

The data on sightings is available only to the c&rt account holder for that boat. Is that correct?

[magnetman]

Just now, Rob-M said:

That isn't signing away your rights, that is perfectly legitimate use of GDPR as you are only allowed to do with data you collect what you say you are going to do with it, so you are agreeing that the data they collect may be provided to others when required.

 

Is it required when someone reports to their insurance that your boat hit theirs and they didn't have their glasses on so misread the number ?

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

The data on sightings is available only to the c&rt account holder for that boat. Is that correct?

 

Someone earlier was jovially suggesting the wife may have the login. 

 

Presumably the mistress didn't. 

 

In this scenario may be best to avoid wives. 

[adam1uk]

On 13/09/2023 at 09:43, Mike Todd said:

I doubt if checkers know (although they may suspect) that a specific boat has no home mooring until they log it (even then, do they have access to that info?).

The location code for a boat’s home mooring used to be printed on the licence (and there was some code for no home mooring, too) — so anyone could tell.  But I’ve just checked and last year’s licence and this year’s no longer have it.

[magnetman]

I'm sure the CRT have admitted you don't need to display the licence. I have only had the number shown for at least the last ten yars on my boat which has the misfortune to be on a CRT waterway and it has never been mentioned.

The number brings up data on the canalplanac (good palindrome) boat list but I circumvented this by saying the boat was built by Jesus and the engine is a thousand horsepower. 

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

It's still there, they've just removed the menu link.

 

https://licensing.canalrivertrust.org.uk/Boat/Sightings

 

 

Just looked at mine, anyone would think I didn't move, this is the last 12 months I have only done a little over 700 miles this year

 

[Momac]

45 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm sure the CRT have admitted you don't need to display the licence

I noticed a C&RT blue sign at a lock  today requesting licenses are displayed. I am  fairly sure I have seen at least one other  identical  sign.

So on the basis of the signage displaying a license seems to be a request  , not a requirement.

 

On the other hand C&RT terms and conditions say 

 

Unless perhaps I didn't find the most up to date terms and conditions.

 

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I noticed a C&RT blue sign at a lock  today requesting licenses are displayed. I am  fairly sure I have seen at least one other  identical  sign.

So on the basis of the signage displaying a license seems to be a request  , not a requirement.

 

On the other hand C&RT terms and conditions say 

 

Unless perhaps I didn't find the most up to date terms and conditions.

 

Have you got a picture of the sign? 

 

Did it say you have to display the licence or just that you have to have a licence to use the CRT canal? 

 

 

[Momac]

33 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Have you got a picture of the sign? 

 

Did it say you have to display the licence or just that you have to have a licence to use the CRT canal? 

 

 

I didn't take  a picture  

It was  worded something like "in the interest of responsible boating please display a valid license" 

I have been displaying a license by the way . 

The terms and conditions  are more positively worded ............ but there may well be no penalty for failure to display.

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by MartynG

[magnetman]

It is interesting. 

 

At one time there was a licence checker web page where you type in the number and find out if the boat is licensed. 

 

A little ill thought out and it was removed as an option. 

 

I imagine it could be a byelaw offence and everyone knows the CRT never enforce byelaws. 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

10 hours ago, Rob-M said:

GDPR is about personal information that links data to an individual such as email address, unless the sightings data has boat owner information with it I don't see how it can be a GDPR breach.

Remember that GDPR is about collecting information in the first place as well as not revealing it without good cause. All orgs need to declare their purposes for any data collection and also, I think  state for how long it will be retained.

[Momac]

13 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

When you licenced your boat you 'signed away your GDPR rights as you agred that C&RT can pass on your personal details to anyone they choose

 

10.12. You agree that We may provide Your relevant personal details including Your contact details such as Your name and address to anyone (or their insurer) who We believe has a legitimate interest to have the details. For example, following an incident or alleged incident involving the Boat where personal injury or damage to property may have occurred.

 

10.13.You agree that where We believe You have failed to comply with the Conditions, We may exchange information relating to You and/or the Boat with third parties who are assisting Us. This may include contractors, mooring providers and individuals or organisations with a legitimate interest or duty in exchanging information about You

 

 

So, I call C&RT and make a request because you (allegedly) hit my boat, C&RT provide me with all your contact details.

Now, knowing that you are 100s of miles away from home, on holiday, on your boat, I know your house is unoccupied ................

No they can't give your details to anyone they choose

There has to be a legitimate reason.

 

Do we know what C&RT actuality do in the event of an alleged hit and run claim? Maybe their first action is to contact the other party with the claimants details?  If the claimant is another boat owner his details will also be known to C&RT.

 

If it was a genuine claim would you not provide your own details ?

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MartynG said:

No they can't give your details to anyone they choose

There has to be a legitimate reason.

 

But they determine 'legitimate' and, they will also provide your details to any 3rd party they wish (who are assisting them).

 

But, as has been pointed out above, this does not infringe your GDPR rights as C&RT have told you they will be doing it before you agreed to it. You had the option not to agree, by not 'sighning' their T&Cs.

 

 

14 hours ago, Rob-M said:

That isn't signing away your rights, that is perfectly legitimate use of GDPR as you are only allowed to do with data you collect what you say you are going to do with it, so you are agreeing that the data they collect may be provided to others when required.

 

[Momac]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But they determine 'legitimate' and, they will also provide your details to any 3rd party they wish (who are assisting them).

 

But, as has been pointed out above, this does not infringe your GDPR rights as C&RT have told you they will be doing it before you agreed to it. You had the option not to agree, by not 'sighning' their T&Cs.

 

 

 

Do you have any examples of cases  where C&RT have given out details under circumstance that you would not consider to be legitimate?

 

[Arthur Marshall]

43 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Do you have any examples of cases  where C&RT have given out details under circumstance that you would not consider to be legitimate?

 

As almost anyone (certainly anyone in any position of authority) now has access to virtually all your data, does it matter? If you're on here, with a boat name and geographical data, or have ever posted anything that might indicate it, you've already put most info into the public arena already.

[Alan de Enfield]

56 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Do you have any examples of cases  where C&RT have given out details under circumstance that you would not consider to be legitimate?

 

 

No, they have obviously never considered that I am 'legitimate' receiver of such information.

[Momac]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No, they have obviously never considered that I am 'legitimate' receiver of such information.

Unless someone else can provide an example where C&RT shared information inappropriately I suggest there is no evidence of any issues in practice.

[magnetman]

There was an interesting problem on the Thames at one stage where a car park company got the contract to enforce mooring limits at Environment Agency sites. They acquired owner data from the EA as they had a "legitimate interest". This data was apparently not updated which resulted in people being sent fines or notices of action for boats they no longer owned. 

 

One does wonder how many (if any) companies with legitimate interest may have succeeded in acquiring boat ownership data from the CRT. 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

When I log on to CRT licencing the first page I see says they have temporarily removed sightings data from the options available.

 

Quote

 

Sightings Information

To support customers accessing their data, we have recently made sightings of boat movements available via your Web Licensing account.

Unfortunately, the format of that data has caused some customers concern about the location their boat has been sighted and left them with questions.

The Trust is currently compiling supporting guidance and information, as a priority, to help boaters best understand this data and help answer any questions they may have.

Whilst we prepare this guidance, we are pausing access to the sightings data.

We anticipate this pause will be brief, and sightings will be available again soon. We thank you for your patience and ask that, unless urgent or you do not have access to the your web licensing account, you do not make requests for your boat sightings. We are working to have the boat sighting information available on your account soon. This will be quicker than a typical request for sightings made to our information team.

If you have already made an enquiry about your sightings, we will provide you with the supporting guidance and information as soon as possible.

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

14 hours ago, MartynG said:

It was  worded something like "in the interest of responsible boating please display a valid license"

Probably an attempt to help stem the tide of bored grumpy boaters who contact them saying "We went cruising and i counted 50 boats without a licence and 70 boats with an out of date licence, what are you doing about it?"

[Momac]

58 minutes ago, magnetman said:

There was an interesting problem on the Thames at one stage where a car park company got the contract to enforce mooring limits at Environment Agency sites. They acquired owner data from the EA as they had a "legitimate interest". This data was apparently not updated which resulted in people being sent fines or notices of action for boats they no longer owned. 

 

One does wonder how many (if any) companies with legitimate interest may have succeeded in acquiring boat ownership data from the CRT. 

 

 

The same car parking company would have access to contact details for registered keepers of road vehicles .

So details of registered boat owners is very similar and therefore a legitimate interest .

 

[Tony1]

42 minutes ago, magnetman said:

   ...a car park company got the contract to enforce mooring limits at Environment Agency sites...

 

That sentence should strike terror into the hearts of Thames boaters. 

I have heard several examples of when a campervan driver entered a car park, but left within a few minutes as they were unable to find a suitable/spacious spot. 

The camera had recorded their entry, however, and they were then sent a demand for payment of the 'minimum stay' parking fee (a few pounds), plus a penalty fee.

The fee was disputed, but eventually the driver folded and paid up, worried that if they had persisted it could have risen to several hundred (with court costs etc), and involved bailiffs attending their house. 

So it seems that simply driving into some car parks can require a payment, even if you don't park there.

If these sorts of scumbags ever move into mooring enforcement, everyone should worry.