Hello everyone!

[truckcab79]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Have you explained to the marina owners what your plans are ?

Most / many / all marinas have restrictions in what work you can carry out at your mooring, there may be odd exemptions but I have found they generally all limit your activity to a bit of 'quiet' rubbing down and painting - anything involving the use of power tools, cutting up big sheets of ply on the pontoon, making a noise or a mess, allowing angle grinding 'rust' / steel particles to settle on another boat etc etc etc is banned. Any 'contractors' you bring onto site to do the gas / electric / etc work will be required to pay a 'fee'' and provide evidence of suitable insurance.

 

Any 'hot' work is normally banned.

 

It would be a shame to pay your £000's for a mooring and then find you were not allowed to work on the boat.

 

Just be aware of some of the issues before you jump in.

 

 

You may be interested in this film of your Springers' original home ....................

 

 

Cheers for that. Will have a watch later.  
 

Marina seem very accommodating. Told them we’d be working on it and although the mooring has no power they said they’d be more than happy to run a supply to us or more likely move the boat to somewhere with power as and when we needed.  Doesn’t seem like it would be an issue.  
 

Most of my gear same as most ‘trade’ guys these days is 18v battery, and i’ll also buy a generator. 
 

Most importantly I wouldn’t dream of imposing on my neighbours at least not without prior warning and trying to work around their needs.  
 

Most if not all work would be inside the boat and  cabinetry etc I’ll probably rough out there and take back to my workshop and build most of it with more space and tools. 
 

Welding might be a requirement if for instance I need to move the boiler flue exit say, or repair something ‘topside’. If I have to and it’s an issue for them I’ll just pay them to

do it. Not ideal as can do it myself but small

price to pay.  

Or I can move it out the Marina  to weld I assume. Generator able to run a welder might be more of an issue on that score so probably not worth it.  

 

The above aside I thought that if you owned a boat it was pretty much assumed that there was always something to work on / fix.  😂

[Alan de Enfield]

As long as you are aware (which it seems you are) & if everyone knows your plans you'll generally find that they are supportive. Its when your neighbour comes back to his boat and finds 1000's of little rust patches on the side where you have been angle grinding. Then you'll have trouble.

 

It happens.

[truckcab79]

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As long as you are aware (which it seems you are) & if everyone knows your plans you'll generally find that they are supportive. Its when your neighbour comes back to his boat and finds 1000's of little rust patches on the side where you have been angle grinding. Then you'll have trouble.

 

It happens.

Same but different. Amongst other things I run a pressure washing service.  You wouldn’t believe the number of jobs I attend where the client’s patio has mysteriously developed loads of tiny rust spots.  When asked if they’ve had any work done you can always guarantee someone has been cutting or grinding steel somewhere nearby.  🙄. 
 

[Bobbybass]

I had some bloke fitting out the boat next to mine. 

I came back after a week away and my boat was covered in sawdust and shavings.

 

Not pleased !

[Bod]

On 29/08/2023 at 12:16, truckcab79 said:

BSC until Feb 26. 
So long as it’s sound structurally none of the work phases me at all. In my day job I design and build gardens, fencing, patios, ponds, pergolas, wood fired oven. I also fit kitchens and bathrooms and restore cars and build engines.  So pretty much covered on all skills and equipment including being able to stick, mig and tig weld though I have no intention of doing any plating myself if I can avoid it.  
 

My main issue will be that my business currently occupies me 7 days as week and I’m trying to take less on and give myself some weekends ‘off’. Hence the boat. 
 

In other news I think we have a Marina spot at Harefield.  Complete with HS2 alongside so may be not the prettiest but conveniently placed and they sound very helpful on the phone.  (According to my wife as I’m currently painting a clients house!) 😂

Cheers.  Saw those last night as it happens.  They’re a backstop if we need to but think we’re sorted.  

I may be preaching to the already converted, but narrowboats exist in a world of their own, many normal world things don't appear in the narrowboat world.

1. The current BSc will become invalid once any major work starts.  Will need redoing at the end of the works.

2. Boat electrics are all negative cable return,  No "earth/body work" returns. Voltage drop is far more of a problem than current carrying capacity, due to cable lenght.

3. All water systems are pump pressured, no gravity system works, even sewage has to be lifted, either by pump or muscle power!

4. Spirit levels are useless on boats, Right-angles are as rare at hens teeth.

5. The ability to work on engines will be helpful, be aware boat engines are sometimes based on very old car designs, but marinised by different companies.  Each installation is unique.

6. Gas work needs doing to BSc standards, by either a "competent" person or a GasSafe engineer qualified to work on LPG systems and boat systems.  The average boiler installer is NOT suitably qualified.

7. It will take at least 3 times longer and cost 4 times more than expected.

 

Bod.

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, Bod said:

I may be preaching to the already converted, but narrowboats exist in a world of their own, many normal world things don't appear in the narrowboat world.

1. The current BSc will become invalid once any major work starts.  Will need redoing at the end of the works.

2. Boat electrics are all negative cable return,  No "earth/body work" returns. Voltage drop is far more of a problem than current carrying capacity, due to cable lenght.

3. All water systems are pump pressured, no gravity system works, even sewage has to be lifted, either by pump or muscle power!

4. Spirit levels are useless on boats, Right-angles are as rare at hens teeth.

5. The ability to work on engines will be helpful, be aware boat engines are sometimes based on very old car designs, but marinised by different companies.  Each installation is unique.

6. Gas work needs doing to BSc standards, by either a "competent" person or a GasSafe engineer qualified to work on LPG systems and boat systems.  The average boiler installer is NOT suitably qualified.

7. It will take at least 3 times longer and cost 4 times more than expected.

 

Bod.

Sounds like most of my hobbies.  😂

 

Funnily enough I had thought about the spirit levels. Those and laser levels are my constant companions normally. I had assumed that I’m going to just have to take 90° off the floor for everything.  😂

 

Great info on the neg return.  Hadn’t crossed my mind that it wouldn’t be earthed via the big steel shell. 👍

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, truckcab79 said:

Sounds like most of my hobbies.  😂

 

Funnily enough I had thought about the spirit levels. Those and laser levels are my constant companions normally. I had assumed that I’m going to just have to take 90° off the floor for everything.  😂

 

Great info on the neg return.  Hadn’t crossed my mind that it wouldn’t be earthed via the big steel shell. 👍

And make sure the draining board is the correct side of the sink, water doesn't flow up hill very well and the worktops wont be level.

[truckcab79]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

And make sure the draining board is the correct side of the sink, water doesn't flow up hill very well and the worktops wont be level.

What’s the correct side then? 😂

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

What’s the correct side then? 😂

 

The side that slopes to the sink.

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

I had assumed that I’m going to just have to take 90° off the floor for everything

 

When you stand and get a straight based on the floor, what happens when you move, the floor now slopes the other way ......................... Now where is your 'level ?

[truckcab79]

54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The side that slopes to the sink.

 

 

 

 

When you stand and get a straight based on the floor, what happens when you move, the floor now slopes the other way ......................... Now where is your 'level ?

90° to the floor is always 90° to the floor.  👍

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Bod said:

1. The current BSc will become invalid once any major work starts.  Will need redoing at the end of the works.

 

This bit is only half true.

 

The only reason you need a BSS ticket is to get a licence, and after major works nobody will know or care that major works have been carried out. The BSS ticket will still appear valid and you'll still be able to get. licence. 

 

The fun might start when it runs out and you need a new one. 

 

Or it might be fine. Depends on the BSS bod. 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

90° to the floor is always 90° to the floor.  👍

 

Agreed but when the floor slopes left to right, then tilts right to left as you move, and add in the floor slope from front to back you'll have some weird cupboards with stuff rolling about inside. 

The front to back slope will always be there but will vary from day to day as the fuel tank (at the rear) gets lighter and also when you fill the water tank at the front - adding up to 1000kg of water does tend to alter the trim.

 

Your boat so build it how you like, but unless you build it 'by eye' to 'what looks right' you'll never be happy with it.

 

 

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

This bit is only half true.

 

The only reason you need a BSS ticket is to get a licence, and after major works nobody will know or care that major works have been carried out. The BSS ticket will still appear valid and you'll still be able to get. licence. 

 

The fun might start when it runs out and you need a new one. 

 

Or it might be fine. Depends on the BSS bod. 

 

 

 

 

 

Or if you have an accident, and the BSS certificate indicates 'no gas system' and 'no electrics'  but when it is examined suddenly all the 'systems have appeared'.

 

(Mind you, of course no one ever has accidents so it is an infintesimal chance that any work you do will ever be discovered)

 

 

 

 

[Stroudwater1]

I think you will enjoy your boat. Let’s hope the survey is OK.
 

Half an hour away is an hours drive which may grate when you’ve forgotten your left handed split ganglepin. Even though you’re a pro it’s surprising how easy it is to forget to bring something that you suddenly find you need. Still wouldn’t discount a spell out of water very close to home  but that may not be possible anyway. Five  or six trips to your boat in the winter is almost a day travelling 
 

It’s refreshing to hear someone buying a boat to have fun and or holidays. That seems to be rather uncommon these days.
 

Oh and yes sinking from overplating is indeed rare. Getting stuck on a lock cill, rudder caught in rear gates or weed hatch replacement failure /stern gland defects are much more likely causes of sinking. water ingress from holes happens too but not often. 

[David Mack]

10 hours ago, Bod said:

1. The current BSc will become invalid once any major work starts.  Will need redoing at the end of the works.

No it won't. There is no process within the Boat Safety Scheme whereby an existing BSC is invalidated and can be withdrawn during its four year currency. Once you have the certificate you have it for four years, and can use it to licence the boat.

There is however a requirement that any work done to the boat should comply with the scheme. You can of course get a new BSC at any time, you don't have to wait for the 4 years to be up, and then the new BSC would supersede the old one. 

And if work done in the meantime is compliant then getting a new certificate shouldn't be a problem (subject to the vagaries of individual examiners).

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Half an hour away is an hours drive which may grate when you’ve forgotten your left handed split ganglepin. 

😂

 

Won’t be the first time.  Any number of times I’ve turned up with a cement mixer and no 110v transformer. Or with mixer, transformer and no lead. Doesn’t help that tool theft from vans is such an issue currently that all the tools have to come off each night so you need to run through every eventuality before you set off.  
 

 

 

[Tacet]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agreed but when the floor slopes left to right, then tilts right to left as you move, and add in the floor slope from front to back you'll have some weird cupboards with stuff rolling about inside. 

The front to back slope will always be there but will vary from day to day as the fuel tank (at the rear) gets lighter and also when you fill the water tank at the front - adding up to 1000kg of water does tend to alter the trim.

 

Your boat so build it how you like, but unless you build it 'by eye' to 'what looks right' you'll never be happy with it.

 

Unless the cupboards are self-levelling, they will always change with the list and pitch of the boat. 

Taking the floor as the starting point seems logical to me.

[Bod]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

No it won't. There is no process within the Boat Safety Scheme whereby an existing BSC is invalidated and can be withdrawn during its four year currency. Once you have the certificate you have it for four years, and can use it to licence the boat.

There is however a requirement that any work done to the boat should comply with the scheme. You can of course get a new BSC at any time, you don't have to wait for the 4 years to be up, and then the new BSC would supersede the old one. 

And if work done in the meantime is compliant then getting a new certificate shouldn't be a problem (subject to the vagaries of individual examiners).

British waterways act 1983 section 7.

 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1983/2/pdfs/ukla_19830002_en.pdf

If this section was used more often than the infamous Section 8, then many more boats would be of concern.

 

Bod

[truckcab79]

34 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Unless the cupboards are self-levelling, they will always change with the list and pitch of the boat. 

Taking the floor as the starting point seems logical to me.

It’s the only datum really. Doesn’t matter what moves if you square to the floor as assuming you’re not levitating your worktops etc will ‘feel’ level regardless.  
 

That’s also the advantage of most lasers. You can lock them so they don’t self-level which would be an issue otherwise.  

Edited September 1, 2023 by truckcab79

[Bobbybass]

To sum up my thoughts over the years.

 

Boat jobs are like normal straightforward jobs in a house...but carried out in a matchbox. If you take a few shelves out of a wardrobe to fix a pipe...you will then fall over said shelves and bury the screwdriver you were about to use. 

[truckcab79]

15 minutes ago, Bobbybass said:

To sum up my thoughts over the years.

 

Boat jobs are like normal straightforward jobs in a house...but carried out in a matchbox. If you take a few shelves out of a wardrobe to fix a pipe...you will then fall over said shelves and bury the screwdriver you were about to use. 

Try fitting small bathrooms or worse under stairs toilets.  You need all the same tools that you do on a big bathroom but in a room that even you don’t fit in. Let alone any of your gear.  Worst one I did was a downstairs loo in a house used for commercial child-minding.  Not only could I not fit in (and I’m a slim 5’9”), but anything that might be dangerous (so everything!) had to be outside so I spent more time walking than I did working. 
 

Or the student flat in central london where the students hadn’t  been told the bathroom was being ripped out and they’d have no facilities for two weeks (I actually took pity on them and reinstalled a toilet each night, which we do all the time when clients only have one bathroom).  
 

A 36ft narrowboat to work in sounds like luxury.  😂

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tacet said:

Unless the cupboards are self-levelling, they will always change with the list and pitch of the boat. 

Taking the floor as the starting point seems logical to me.

I ballasted our boat almost level bow to stern but some boats there could be a goo 100mm or more in it so the worktops , bulkheads etc look fine. I still put the draining board towards the bows of the boat. I have seen them the other way round and they don't work.

[Bobbybass]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I ballasted our boat almost level bow to stern but some boats there could be a goo 100mm or more in it so the worktops , bulkheads etc look fine. I still put the draining board towards the bows of the boat. I have seen them the other way round and they don't work.

 

[MtB]

3 hours ago, truckcab79 said:

Won’t be the first time.  Any number of times I’ve turned up with a cement mixer and no 110v transformer.

 

Just plug it into the 240Vac supply and mix all your cement twice as fast. 

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

 

 

(Yes I know, it would be four times as fast really!) 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

(Yes I know, it would be four times as fast really!) 

Just as well because it wouldn't last long 🤑

[nealeST]

On 30/08/2023 at 18:11, ditchcrawler said:

Even that is not blasted and epoxied by the read of it. If you are looking for a boat I think you will have a very limited choice if that is your top criteria 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.com/boat/narrow-boats-traditional-for-sale/742526

Well they do pop up... as if by magic. Now if I had the cash I'd be first in the line for this one, yes epoxied. I just wouldn't hesitate. This is my latest crush...❤️