I am desperate to get a marine engineer to service my engine

[David Schweizer]

I wonder whether the OP might consider engaging a qualified marine surveyor to examine the boat and advise on any items that require attention. Of course it will cost quite a bit, but he should get a better informed assessment rather than rely upon advice from individuals on a forum, who have not actually viewed the boat.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by David Schweizer

[howardang]

17 minutes ago, Garethh said:

So basically I should give up on my dream of owning a boat?

Not at all, but take advice and assistance BEFORE buying a boat, and learn something about boats and how they work etc.

 

Howard

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

You can download the BSS guide from the Boat Safety Scheme website. Read and digest it because it will help ensure any work you do will pass the BSS inspection.

Here.

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/requirements-examinations-certification/private-boat-requirements/

[howardang]

11 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I wonder whether the OP might consider engaging a qualified marine surveyor to examine the boat and advise on any items that require attention. Of course it will cost quite a bit, but he should get a better informed assessment rather than rely upon advice from individuals on a forum, who have not actually viewed the boat.

 

 

I agree and have already offered similar advice. I suspect, however, that the OP is working to a tight budget.

Certainly, asking for advice on a forum such as this is certainly taking pot luck about the correctness of any such advice he will get. I have been on this forum for many years and yet I have no idea who the greatest majority of members are, so the only mention of any of their experience and knowledge is what they themselves mention. I would be very cautious about taking action based on some advice without knowing the background and expertise of anyone giving me advice.

 

Howard

[Ianws]

13 minutes ago, howardang said:

I agree and have already offered similar advice. I suspect, however, that the OP is working to a tight budget.

Certainly, asking for advice on a forum such as this is certainly taking pot luck about the correctness of any such advice he will get. I have been on this forum for many years and yet I have no idea who the greatest majority of members are, so the only mention of any of their experience and knowledge is what they themselves mention. I would be very cautious about taking action based on some advice without knowing the background and expertise of anyone giving me advice.

 

Howard

Even the most trusted and respected members can get their initial diagnosis and suggestions wrong if they haven't been given full or correct information. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Ianws
Missing word

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, Ianws said:

Were Dawncfafts still being built then? He may have been told it's a 2000 model but that doesn't mean it is. 

Do we even know if this is a Dawncraft built by Dawncraft of Kinver, who had stopped building boats by the time the RCD came in? Or could it be a boat built by the unrelated company Dawncraft of Wroxham, who may have been building later?

http://norfolk.broads.org.uk/wiki2018/index.php?title=Dawncraft_of_Wroxham

[LadyG]

28 minutes ago, howardang said:

I agree and have already offered similar advice. I suspect, however, that the OP is working to a tight budget.

Certainly, asking for advice on a forum such as this is certainly taking pot luck about the correctness of any such advice he will get. I have been on this forum for many years and yet I have no idea who the greatest majority of members are, so the only mention of any of their experience and knowledge is what they themselves mention. I would be very cautious about taking action based on some advice without knowing the background and expertise of anyone giving me advice.

 

Howard

His aim seemed to be to get someone from the forum to visit the boat and give him advice, that is not realistic. That pretty much sums up the advice he has been given.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, howardang said:

I agree and have already offered similar advice. I suspect, however, that the OP is working to a tight budget.

Certainly, asking for advice on a forum such as this is certainly taking pot luck about the correctness of any such advice he will get. I have been on this forum for many years and yet I have no idea who the greatest majority of members are, so the only mention of any of their experience and knowledge is what they themselves mention. I would be very cautious about taking action based on some advice without knowing the background and expertise of anyone giving me advice.

 

Howard

His aim seemed to be to get someone from the forum to visit the boat and give him advice, the advice he would get from a surveyor and from a BSS Examiner, that is not realistic. That pretty much sums up the advice he has been given.

 

 

I'm

Edited August 13, 2023 by LadyG

[Paul C]

9 hours ago, Garethh said:

So basically I should give up on my dream of owning a boat?

 

What's your budget?

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, LadyG said:

His aim seemed to be to get someone from the forum to visit the boat and give him advice, that is not realistic. That pretty much sums up the advice he has been given.

 

If it is only advice that he wants and IF a mutually convenient time could be arranged, I would visit the boat for an hour or so, but I fear he may expect ongoing work to be done and keep coming back for more "advice". I would also need close by parking. In the end, it could still all go wrong for him, and I don't want to be the one he blames. However, looking at the cooker thread, I am far from sure what good just advice would be to him.

 

I think that we need to know exact;y who made the boat, so some external photos would help identify it.

15 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

If it is only advice that he wants and IF a mutually convenient time could be arranged, I would visit the boat for an hour or so, but I fear he may expect ongoing work to be done and keep coming back for more "advice". I would also need close by parking. In the end, it could still all go wrong for him, and I don't want to be the one he blames. However, looking at the cooker thread, I am far from sure what good just advice would be to him.

 

I think that we need to know exact;y who made the boat, so some external photos would help identify it.

 

I have just checked his posts and the OP was asking about using plastic in sliding windows. The question about who actually made the boat came up in that one and I don't think we ever got photos or a definite answer. There was a very strong hint it was the Broads based company but not confirmed.

The way the calorifier seems to be beside the engine box suggest it may be a wide beam, so probably the Broads builder, and if so that 2000 date may well be correct with the implications for RCD/RCR compliance. Once a half decent professional involved, the costs could rocket if they work to the RCR.

[howardang]

36 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

If it is only advice that he wants and IF a mutually convenient time could be arranged, I would visit the boat for an hour or so, but I fear he may expect ongoing work to be done and keep coming back for more "advice". I would also need close by parking. In the end, it could still all go wrong for him, and I don't want to be the one he blames. However, looking at the cooker thread, I am far from sure what good just advice would be to him.

 

I think that we need to know exact;y who made the boat, so some external photos would help identify it.

 

I have just checked his posts and the OP was asking about using plastic in sliding windows. The question about who actually made the boat came up in that one and I don't think we ever got photos or a definite answer. There was a very strong hint it was the Broads based company but not confirmed.

The way the calorifier seems to be beside the engine box suggest it may be a wide beam, so probably the Broads builder, and if so that 2000 date may well be correct with the implications for RCD/RCR compliance. Once a half decent professional involved, the costs could rocket if they work to the RCR.

I wonder if the OP is under the impression that this forum is a service which can tackle issues, because he doesn't seem to get the point that asking advice here, however helpful, is not the same as approaching a commercial organisation to get the job done?

 

That is a very kind offer to visit the boat but as you suggest it could drag you in to something that you might regret.

 

Howard

[Tony Brooks]

I realised last night that I had not seen a fuel filter on this engine, there is one, but it is disconnected. Unless there is one hidden away somewhere, it is not sensible running a diesel with no fuel filter. Injection pump wear or blocking tends to be expensive.

Sorry to keep going on, but having looked at the OPs other topics and thinking about the no-show engineer. I wonder if he did show up, walked past the boat and assessed the amount of work probably needed and his chances of getting fully paid in a timely manner.

 

If the boat is known in the area, or if the above is what happened, it suggests that there is a good chance no paid help will want to get involved.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

The way the calorifier seems to be beside the engine box suggest it may be a wide beam, so probably the Broads builder, and if so that 2000 date may well be correct with the implications for RCD/RCR compliance. Once a half decent professional involved, the costs could rocket if they work to the RCR.

 

Also, the 1.8 Ford XLD is a whopping great engine for an early 7ft beam Dawncraft which from memory, usually has an outboard. Also, I think its quite a modern engine and I'd have expected to see a little 3 cyl Mitsubishi or similar in an 70s 7ft beam boat. So it looks to me too as though though this is probably a later widebeam broads Dawncraft, built around 2000.

 

A brief google suggests the 1800XLD began production in 1988, which is perhaps around the time production of the 7ft wide Dawncraft ceased.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, MtB said:

Also, the 1.8 Ford XLD is a whopping great engine

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

15 hours ago, Garethh said:

So basically I should give up on my dream of owning a boat?

I thought you already owned this one?

There are only two things that really matter with powered boats - the engine and the hull. With a project boat, you need both those to be OK, which may well cost a bit to start with. After that, it's just a matter of putting in what you want - if its for days out, you don't even need a cooker or a bed. If it's to live on, a bit more. But critically, get the engine sorted and everything else stems from that.

If you've already got the boat and it doesn't currently need licensing, wherever it is there should be other boaters about. Once you are seen mucking about on yours, someone will almost certainly come and chat, will peer at the engine and offer opinions and suggestions. Real people are more use than forums at that stage, I think . You could also always join RCR - while they may not be much use (they're a breakdown service) at least you'd get an engineer's opinion fairly cheaply, or they would suggest one for you.

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I thought you already owned this one?

There are only two things that really matter with powered boats - the engine and the hull. With a project boat, you need both those to be OK, which may well cost a bit to start with. After that, it's just a matter of putting in what you want - if its for days out, you don't even need a cooker or a bed. If it's to live on, a bit more. But critically, get the engine sorted and everything else stems from that.

If you've already got the boat and it doesn't currently need licensing, wherever it is there should be other boaters about. Once you are seen mucking about on yours, someone will almost certainly come and chat, will peer at the engine and offer opinions and suggestions. Real people are more use than forums at that stage, I think . You could also always join RCR - while they may not be much use (they're a breakdown service) at least you'd get an engineer's opinion fairly cheaply, or they would suggest one for you.

 

This is open to interpretation. If the boat is on CaRT or EA waters, then licensing is mandatory. It may be that it already has a licence for 2023, but when that expires it will need a new licence. If the OP does not licence the boat, then in time CaRT will solve his problems by taking it away.

 

I hope the OP knows that to be issued with a licence it needs both a BSS certificate and at least third party insurance (as has been stated several times). Although a BSS lasts for four years, I suspect that even if the boat has one it will run out before long, so it is a little more than just needing a good hull and engine. If it is to stay on CaRT or EA waters, then one could argue a current BSS is perhaps more important.

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Although a BSS lasts for four years,

 

That is only true if no changes are made that would not comply with the BSS (Fuel pipe in a bucket ?) in which case the BSS would become invalid.

 

From the BSS (it printed on your BSS copy / receipt)

 

Please note: the BSS Examination findings, and examination report, relate only to the facts observed at the time of the BSS Examination. It is not evidence of compliance with the navigation authorities’ requirements at any other time.

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority.  The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made; or if a hire boat or other type of non-private boat is examined against the ‘private boat’ category of BSS checks.

A BSS examination and examination report relates only to the relevant version of the BSS Examination Checking Procedures published on boatsafetyscheme.org. Depending upon the nature of the specific check, the examination may be confined to items that can be seen, reached or touched.

A BSS examination is not a full condition survey, nor is it an indication that the vessel is fit for purpose.  For example, it does not cover the condition of the hull or deck, the integrity of through-hull fittings or the stability of the boat and it isn’t the same as having your boat serviced and doesn’t check its general mechanical condition.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

29 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

This is open to interpretation. If the boat is on CaRT or EA waters, then licensing is mandatory. It may be that it already has a licence for 2023,

I understand the OP has only recently bought the boat. CRT licences are not transferable, so if the boat is on CRT waters the OP should have licenced it from when he acquired it. 

Not sure if EA is the same.

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I understand the OP has only recently bought the boat. CRT licences are not transferable, so if the boat is on CRT waters the OP should have licenced it from when he acquired it. 

Not sure if EA is the same.

 

Tue, but if the vendor did not tell CaRT they would not be chasing it for licence evasion.

 

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is only true if no changes are made that would not comply with the BSS (Fuel pipe in a bucket ?) in which case the BSS would become invalid.

 

From the BSS (it printed on your BSS copy / receipt)

 

Please note: the BSS Examination findings, and examination report, relate only to the facts observed at the time of the BSS Examination. It is not evidence of compliance with the navigation authorities’ requirements at any other time.

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority.  The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made; or if a hire boat or other type of non-private boat is examined against the ‘private boat’ category of BSS checks.

A BSS examination and examination report relates only to the relevant version of the BSS Examination Checking Procedures published on boatsafetyscheme.org. Depending upon the nature of the specific check, the examination may be confined to items that can be seen, reached or touched.

A BSS examination is not a full condition survey, nor is it an indication that the vessel is fit for purpose.  For example, it does not cover the condition of the hull or deck, the integrity of through-hull fittings or the stability of the boat and it isn’t the same as having your boat serviced and doesn’t check its general mechanical condition.

 

This is also true, but how will CaRT know that a coach and horses has been driven through the BSS for this boat until the next BSS is due. 

 

The point I was trying to get across is that there is limited time for the OP to get his boat BSS compliant and tested. That could be anything from no time at all to several months. The best hull and engine in the world won't help a boater get a licence without a valid BSC. As the BSS, licence, and insurance situation has not been disclosed, I suspect the OP was not even aware of what is required and may not fully understand even now.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

The best hull and engine in the world won't help a boater get a licence without a valid BSC. As the BSS, licence, and insurance situation has not been disclosed, I suspect the OP was not even aware of what is required and may not fully understand even now.

 

 

I did post this (earlier in the thread)

 

Just as an aside - we keep mentioning the BSS, do you know what this is ?

 

(It is a boat version of a cars MOT, but goes into checking your fire extinguishers are correct, that you have carbon monoxide alarms in the cabin, that your cables are the correct size for your batteries, your gas system is pressurised and checked for leaks, your gas hob must switch off if the flame goes out, your electrics must be correctly wired thru master switches,  your batteries are strapped down and cannot move, that your diesel fuel filter is of the correct type etc etc etc etc)

 

Many people do not realise that you cannot just buy a boat and drop it into the canal / river.

Like a car you must have :

The boat registered (number plate)

A BSS certificate (MOT)

The boat must be licenced (tax disc)

It must be insured

 

 

Although he last visited the forum 45 minutes ago, he seems to have given up responding.

[Tony Brooks]

I know you did, but the OP seems rater casual about it all. I wonder if that CaRT started enforcement against the boat that resulted in the sale.

[Paul C]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

I know you did, but the OP seems rater casual about it all. I wonder if that CaRT started enforcement against the boat that resulted in the sale.

 

We don't know if its in the water or not; and if its in water, if its on CRT waters. Its arguably a separate topic.

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

We don't know if its in the water or not; and if its in water, if its on CRT waters. Its arguably a separate topic.

 

Agreed, but he has said it is at Newbury. I suppose it might be down a River Kennet "backwater" so the licence etc. won't apply, but I can't think of many close to Newbury. he says the engine runs well, so I doubt it is ashore.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Mike Hurley]

17 hours ago, Garethh said:

So basically I should give up on my dream of owning a boat?

You own the boat so dream completed, now the nightmare starts.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Mike Hurley said:

You own the boat so dream completed, now the nightmare starts.

That's a bit extreme... I'd substitute "adventure" (possibly with "expensive" as a prefix) for "nightmare". We all know what BOAT is an acronym for!

[Tacet]

18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That is only true if no changes are made that would not comply with the BSS (Fuel pipe in a bucket ?) in which case the BSS would become invalid.

 

From the BSS (it printed on your BSS copy / receipt)

 

Please note: the BSS Examination findings, and examination report, relate only to the facts observed at the time of the BSS Examination. It is not evidence of compliance with the navigation authorities’ requirements at any other time.

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority.  The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made; or if a hire boat or other type of non-private boat is examined against the ‘private boat’ category of BSS checks.

A BSS examination and examination report relates only to the relevant version of the BSS Examination Checking Procedures published on boatsafetyscheme.org. Depending upon the nature of the specific check, the examination may be confined to items that can be seen, reached or touched.

A BSS examination is not a full condition survey, nor is it an indication that the vessel is fit for purpose.  For example, it does not cover the condition of the hull or deck, the integrity of through-hull fittings or the stability of the boat and it isn’t the same as having your boat serviced and doesn’t check its general mechanical condition.

But it doesn't say the BSC becomes automatically invalid, in such circumstances.

 

If it did, would it immediately be revalidated when it becomes compliant again?  Or is another examination required?

 

And at what level of non- compliance does the BSC become invalid? If an essential gas pipe clip breaks and is fixed a week later, is it without a valid BSC for that week, for all time or is that defect below some undisclosed threshold?

 

In my estimation, unless the BSC is more formally withdrawn, it remains as such it is just that the vessel is non-compliant and quite possibly seriously or dangerously so.