Oxford man charged with careless cycling after pedestrian, 81, dies

[magnetman]

I'm not anti bike. 

 

The problem I can see is that we have a path which has water on one side of it and usually vegetation on the other side. It is also not very wide.

 

Inviting and encouraging cycling, which is a wheeled form of transport, disadvantages those who choose to take exercise by walking because their pleasure is interrupted by cyclists. 

 

It isn't appropriate because over time there is a risk that wheeled vehicles will come to dominate the shared path. 

 

I suppose I am a bit jaded on account of having seen so many [word removed]s on towpaths in London. 

 

I had one quite recently. I was just walking and he thought he had some sort of priority and had a go at me for not yielding my walking position. I was crossing a side path yes the bike was coming but so what I am just walking.

 

Idiots ! 

 

Bikes are great but can be inappropriate in the wrong hands and places. 

 

We don't get any of this at the country estate!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

I'm in agreement. Towpaths only work for mixed use if people on bikes are considerate. A significant number are not. What's the solution? Perhaps if the road system was safer for any one who isn't in a metal box, then there wouldn't be a need for towpaths to be cycle tracks. Any attempt to do that is immediately branded a war on motorists. 

Alternatively, we could blame the walkers. If they wore high vis and helmets they wouldn't get knocked down and hurt so often, so it is mostly their fault. Also, they don't pay towpath tax and have no insurance. Don't have to pass a walking test before being allowed out on their own. Oh yes, number plates on their shoes. 😛

[SLC]

Perhaps the CRT could have put more signs up - pedestrians always have priority!

Recently Parliament passed a Bill to protect women from stalkers and men who follow them. In Newcastle the response was who is going to enforce this? A serious issue which no doubt gives MPs a warm and comfortable feeling of having done a good job but frankly they have done stuff all and this is a serious issue. The same applies to dog mess, litter, e-scooters - we have "rules" and "laws" but these are meaningless if they are not enforced and so the truth is they do not exist. Of course, we also have the issue of who will enforce these rules without fear of assault - I believe that locally a CRT person was killed while trying to intervene on a legitimate CRT enforcement matter.

So depressing and official council response is to publish a press release saying we caught x number of fly tippers (or dog owners not clearing up their mess), they have been fined etc. X is less than 5 and appears every 6 months or so. Locally there is a spot where there have been 13 separate incidents during that period - just one spot down the road.

Someone stated on another forum that in his opinion bicycles and pedestrians (on the Monsal Trail if I recall) are incompatible. So true.

Edited July 27, 2023 by SLC
After thought.

[magnetman]

The odd thing with bicycles is that actually are a really good way of going from B to A. Brilliant in fact. 

 

The trouble is that the way society in this country has become formed is that one must have a car. Bikes are annoying to cars and it is dangerous to the cyclist.

 

Equally bikes are annoying to pedestrians. They don't fit anywhere other than their own dedicated lanes. Elevated or tunnels would be best.

 

The basic physics is that a cyclist choosing to use a towpath is transferring the risk of car hitting them to the risk of them hitting a pedestrian. In other words the cyclist is now in a safer position. Understandable due to general survival instinct but surely a conversation is needed about whether it is appropriate to have shared paths in the first place. Especially shared paths alongside waterways (proximity to water hazard) which are being promoted as a wellbeing area and a linear public amenity park. 

 

It isn't easy to get rid of the bikes but if pedestrians, who are not on a time schedule, simply ignore cyclists who are on a time schedule and just carry on walking normally perhaps there is a chance the bikes will use another route. 

 

A lot of it is to do with uploading routes to smartphone apps so NOW is the time to slow them down because if you don't the paths will be lost to pedestrians and become 2WV highways. 

 

Attitude change needed by pedestrians. You have the priority and there is no reason why you should step aside for fast moving wheeled vehicles. 

 

 

 

 

The cyclists do 'reclaim our streets' protests so why can't pedestrians do similar and simply block the bikes for a day. Use force of numbers to cause change. 

 

 

[Heartland]

A pity one can't do this in places like New Street in Brum where pedestrians are at risk of being mown down by fast food deliverers on electric motor bikes.

 

The fast food cyclists are dangerous not only on Birmingham Streets but the towpath as well. There are times when they seem to aim at pedestrians to drive them out of the way. There seems to be less people using the towpaths in central Birmingham at present. May be the constant rain is a factor,  but the rogue cyclists, a group to which the fast food delivery people belong, is also driving the walker away. I feel sorry for the fudge boat near Worcester Bar who have had a poor season so far.

 

The Oxford cyclist is up before the Crown Court in August, I can only hope that the waterways owners CRT, EA etc look to improved regulations for cyclists. 

[SLC]

Regulation is pointless without enforcement. Clarity may help though.

[Heartland]

Enforcement is exactly what has been asked for, but the CRT, EA, and other waterway owners seem incapable of this task. With the CRT they may be handicapped with their association with cycling organizations in order to promote well-being.

 

Perhaps a pressure group within the IWA could help to encourage a united response. But it is not just enforcement each bike needs some form of registration so those that do wrong can be identified.

 

At present the voices of dissent are lost in the wind or may be a gale, that blows in favour of all cyclists.

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 hours ago, Heartland said:

The fast food cyclists are dangerous not only on Birmingham Streets but the towpath as well. There are times when they seem to aim at pedestrians to drive them out of the way. There seems to be less people using the towpaths in central Birmingham at present. May be the constant rain is a factor,  but the rogue cyclists, a group to which the fast food delivery people belong, is also driving the walker away. I feel sorry for the fudge boat near Worcester Bar who have had a poor season so far.

 

The food delivery cyclists are on piece work. The faster they can get to where they are going, the sooner they can accept the next job. I don't know about the UK, but company algorithms in some countries have been know to discriminate against riders with a history of being slow. Blame the companies controlling their work, not the riders.

[Victor Vectis]

31 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Blame the companies controlling their work, not the riders.

Or the lazy fat barstewerds who are too idle to get of their lardy arses and walk to the takeaway.

 

I feel the same about those who use the table service app in Wetherspoon pubs and expect to be waited on.

 

[Ronaldo47]

11 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 Buses are interesting. Where are the collisions happening? Around bus stops, or elsewhere?

The only road fatality in my immediate family, some 20 years ago, was  the 14 year old son of a cousin. He had got off a bus at a bus stop, and had dashed across the road in front of the still-stationary bus he had just left without looking,  right into the path of a second bus. Thrown into the air by the impact, landed on head, never regained conciousness, eventually declared brain dead and life support withdrawn. Absolutely nothing the second bus driver could have done. The father arranged for his brother to visit the unfortunate driver and explain in person that they did not blame him, death was entirely due to their son's carelessness. 

 

I would be surprised if  this sort of detail were available from the published statistics of road accident fatalities. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

16 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

The only road fatality in my immediate family, some 20 years ago, was  the 14 year old son of a cousin. He had got off a bus at a bus stop, and had dashed across the road in front of the still-stationary bus he had just left without looking,  right into the path of a second bus. Thrown into the air by the impact, landed on head, never regained conciousness, eventually declared brain dead and life support withdrawn. Absolutely nothing the second bus driver could have done. The father arranged for his brother to visit the unfortunate driver and explain in person that they did not blame him, death was entirely due to their son's carelessness. 

 

I would be surprised if  this sort of detail were available from the published statistics of road accident fatalities. 

A dreadful thing for all concerned. Your family and the driver. Statistics are so dry, but there are real people behind each number. Too easy to forget that.

[Arthur Marshall]

5 hours ago, Heartland said:

Enforcement is exactly what has been asked for, but the CRT, EA, and other waterway owners seem incapable of this task. With the CRT they may be handicapped with their association with cycling organizations in order to promote well-being.

 

Perhaps a pressure group within the IWA could help to encourage a united response. But it is not just enforcement each bike needs some form of registration so those that do wrong can be identified.

 

At present the voices of dissent are lost in the wind or may be a gale, that blows in favour of all cyclists.

 

 

Enforcement is impossible. So is pushbike registration. Ebikes, however, could be classified as motorbikes and they could be licenced if it was done now while there aren't too many of them, but will be impossible for the same reason in a year's time. Something will be done about them sooner or later as the fire brigade are getting tired of being called out to the fires they cause (apparently one every two days in London).

[Ronaldo47]

Introducing cycle/ebike/escooter  registration would almost certainly require taking on more staff to process the applications, and government policy is to reduce the number of civil servants, not increase them, regardless of whether the income generated exceeds their wages bill. Achieving numerical policy targets usually  trumps common sense, at least, that was my experience when I was in the Civil Service.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Ronaldo47
typos

[magnetman]

It can't be that difficult to just enact a law whereby anyone riding a two wheel vehicle must display a number on themselves. A high viz with a number printed on the back. Anyone doing bad things will retreat from the scene with their back turned. The number to be referenced to third party insurance. 

 

This has been happening for decades with cars and motorcycles but it is concentrated on the vehicle not the person. For bicycles it needs to be the person who is identified. 

 

Unless unacceptable behaviour can be dealt with by peer pressure laws will have to come in to deal with it especially given the electrification of everything. 

 

 

 

 

[Midnight]

22 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

..........

Could we do anything about it - NO - they were long gone.

..............

 

Ahem! Calder & Hebble spike carried on the shoulder with the blunt end sticking out. Turn around when speeding nutter approaches, the arc is quite a good deterent. But you do look odd on the Ashby Canal.

[Mike Todd]

11 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

Introducing cycle/ebike/escooter  registration would almost certainly require taking on more staff to process the applications, and government policy is to reduce the number of civil servants, not increase them, regardless of whether the income generated exceeds their wages bill. Achieving numerical policy targets usually  trumps common sense, at least, that was my experience when I was in the Civil Service.

For quite a long time gov policy has been that any new requirement, esp on local authorities, for regulation must be self funding. ie the charge for the licence must at least cover the cost of administering it, including, I guess, enforcement.

 

Seeing localised targets override wider optimisation is not restricted to civil service - it is a factor of human beings who will always (well, almost always) respond to the requirements imposed on them personally, esp if it relates to pay or promotion.

[Arthur Marshall]

Now a 14 year old has killed a young child, as opposed to just the riders getting killed when avoiding the police (who then get blamed) , maybe something will get done. That's if the government think anything is as important as Farage's bank account, which they probably don't.

ETA it seems have been an actual motorbike rather than an electric. Not sure it makes much difference as to the lack of enforcement.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Arthur Marshall

[magnetman]

Nobody cares about Farridge other than himself and his publicity junkie ego problem.

 

 

Handy way for the media to divert attention from things which actually matter though. 

[cuthound]

On 27/07/2023 at 12:22, magnetman said:

The odd thing with bicycles is that actually are a really good way of going from B to A. Brilliant in fact. 

 

The trouble is that the way society in this country has become formed is that one must have a car. Bikes are annoying to cars and it is dangerous to the cyclist.

 

Equally bikes are annoying to pedestrians. They don't fit anywhere other than their own dedicated lanes. Elevated or tunnels would be best.

 

The basic physics is that a cyclist choosing to use a towpath is transferring the risk of car hitting them to the risk of them hitting a pedestrian. In other words the cyclist is now in a safer position. Understandable due to general survival instinct but surely a conversation is needed about whether it is appropriate to have shared paths in the first place. Especially shared paths alongside waterways (proximity to water hazard) which are being promoted as a wellbeing area and a linear public amenity park. 

 

It isn't easy to get rid of the bikes but if pedestrians, who are not on a time schedule, simply ignore cyclists who are on a time schedule and just carry on walking normally perhaps there is a chance the bikes will use another route. 

 

A lot of it is to do with uploading routes to smartphone apps so NOW is the time to slow them down because if you don't the paths will be lost to pedestrians and become 2WV highways. 

 

Attitude change needed by pedestrians. You have the priority and there is no reason why you should step aside for fast moving wheeled vehicles. 

 

 

 

 

The cyclists do 'reclaim our streets' protests so why can't pedestrians do similar and simply block the bikes for a day. Use force of numbers to cause change. 

 

 

 

Perhaps the towpath walkers should adopt the same survival tactics as cyclists have on the roads by walking two abreast and only allowing the cyclist to overtake when the walkers decide that it is safe to do so?

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Perhaps the towpath walkers should adopt the same survival tactics as cyclists have on the roads by walking two abreast and only allowing the cyclist to overtake when the walkers decide that it is safe to do so?

 

 

How should I go about walking two abreast?

 

Much obliged...

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

How should I go about walking two abreast?

 

Much obliged...

 

Easy, just buy the following cyclist a few beers...    

 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Easy, just buy the following cyclist a few beers...    

 

 

Oh that's a good point. 

 

My mate says once he's had enough to drink, he can see two locks....

 

 

 

And not just at Hillmorton! 

 

 

[cuthound]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Oh that's a good point. 

 

My mate says once he's had enough to drink, he can see two locks....

 

 

 

 

About three years ago I rescued a drunken cyclist who had collided with my nearest bridge and fallen into the canal. Perhaps he chose the wrong one to cycle under... 

 

[magnetman]

I met a geyser on a boat a number of yars ago who had cycled into roadworks while out of it, got badly injured then sued the council. It turned out the roadworks was not properly indicated and he got a payout which funded his boat. 

 

Mad story maybe I was too gullible. 

 

I do wonder how it would play out in a court if a cyclist was injured by collision with a pedestrian. Would the pedestrian ever be at fault for example if they were not carrying a light in the dark?

 

 

[Higgs]

12 hours ago, magnetman said:

I do wonder how it would play out in a court if a cyclist was injured by collision with a pedestrian. Would the pedestrian ever be at fault for example if they were not carrying a light in the dark?

 

Presumably, the cyclist would have been with or without lights. If without, the odds are even. Probably slightly in favour of the pedestrian. 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Higgs