Hi All

[peterboat]

25 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

i see you are one that cannot let anything go.... 

and if you where told not to do something you had your heart set on for years... your behaviour would be predictable also....

just think about that for a moment....

i also don't mind help, idea's & even criticism ... but to be told not to do something isnt on.. not even on a forum...

if we fail... we fail.. that is our problem.. no one elses... but if we take the, i couldnt even call it advice... we will never know if it would have been beyond magnificent or a failure... and the fact that PD told me how our lives where going to unfold.. daughter cant cope goes to live with bro etc... do you all have crystal balls?

i've let it go... moved on to reading the other threads... 

[ENDEX]

As an ex Army guy like yourself I jumped in the deep end, I had a Narrowboat holiday in autumn under my belt and plenty of LSL/LCL cruises as well 

There was only me so the success or failure was down to me, I loved boating life from the very first turn of the key. Over 20 years later nothing has changed except my loathing of The CRT organisation! The guys on the ground brilliant not so the management, if some of them actually went boating or even had seen a boat they would be better equipped to understand boaters and canals, unfortunately they dont.

Get your boat purchase right and moorings in hand will give you a racing chance of success in your new life. Good luck with your new lives its brilliant when it goes well mildly disappointing when it doesn't 

[mightyslay3r]

6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

As an ex Army guy like yourself I jumped in the deep end, I had a Narrowboat holiday in autumn under my belt and plenty of LSL/LCL cruises as well 

There was only me so the success or failure was down to me, I loved boating life from the very first turn of the key. Over 20 years later nothing has changed except my loathing of The CRT organisation! The guys on the ground brilliant not so the management, if some of them actually went boating or even had seen a boat they would be better equipped to understand boaters and canals, unfortunately they dont.

Get your boat purchase right and moorings in hand will give you a racing chance of success in your new life. Good luck with your new lives its brilliant when it goes well mildly disappointing when it doesn't 

thanks Peter... really.. thank you. 

[dmr]

24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

People don't want to discuss the lavatory arrangements on boats. 

 

It is a very personal activity and the compromises made, while in some cases being incredibly traumatic, are often hidden from view. 

 

This is what is actually happening. 

 

There will be a lot of denial and a lot of diversion but at the end of the day living on a boat comes down to the finer points of the lavatory system. 

 

That is what it is all about. 

 

If you can deal with boat lavatories then you will be fine. If not then be very fearful and wary of long term trauma. 

 

Do NOT get a dump through pumpout lavatory. If you do you will be psychologically harmed far more than war veterans. 

 

 

 

]

I think exactly the opposite   with a dump through you can see exactly what is going on, with other systems its hidden and so your imagination can run amok,  and imagination is always much worse than reality 😀

[mightyslay3r]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

]

I think exactly the opposite   with a dump through you can see exactly what is going on, with other systems its hidden and so your imagination can run amok,  and imagination is always much worse than reality 😀

ok... what is the difference between dump through & pump out.. besides a pump out is in a tank you cannot see or gauge how full it is....

[magnetman]

Dump through is where the lavatory acts as the vent for the tank so when you open the trap the waste goes in and displaces air. Then you close it. 

 

 

If you want to see the shit do what I do which is use the ashpan and a bent soup ladle to put it in the fire. 

 

This is the winter solution. 

 

Allows stool inspection which can be useful for health reasons. 

The ash pan in this case is an aluminum wok type cooking thing. it slots into the lavatory for convenience. 

[mightyslay3r]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Dump through is where the lavatory acts as the vent for the tank so when you open the trap the waste goes in and displaces air. Then you close it. 

 

 

If you want to see the shit do what I do which is use the ashpan and a bent soup ladle to put it in the fire. 

 

This is the winter solution. 

 

Allows stool inspection which can be useful for health reasons. 

you my man are very informative... funny has f*ck but very informative 😂😂

[magnetman]

It is much better crapping into a wok which is lined with ash from the fire than one which isn't. 

[mightyslay3r]

yup, 1, it keeps yer ass warm... 2, no skid marks

[Tony Brooks]

13 hours ago, magnetman said:

Dump through is where the lavatory acts as the vent for the tank so when you open the trap the waste goes in and displaces air. Then you close it. 

 

 

 

 

Only because the installations are rubbish. 2 large bore vent pipes, one at each end of the tank, plus an enclosure with a decent fan in one. Still works when the electrics fail and can be flushed with a bucket of canal water if need be.

[rusty69]

13 hours ago, mightyslay3r said:

you my man are very informative... funny has f*ck but very informative 😂😂

Hes quite mad you know.

[magnetman]

Good point about the electric. 

 

It probably is a good solution if done right but so often it isn't and the boat stinks. 

 

One of my boats has a household loo on top of a holding tank, U bend and all but it is a sea boat so the discharge was originally overboard using a Jabsco chopper pump mounted to the top of the tank. Very effective. 

 

I have routed the outlet to a beer keg kept outside. On my mooring there is a pumpout dedicated to each berth so it is okay. 

 

Thinking about it, if you had a cruiser stern narrow boat you could actually have two kegs on the stern deck and an arrangement to cart them to the Elsan hopper then pump discharge. 

 

The thing with mixing a lot of water is that the material becomes highly liquid and will pass through a 1 inch bore pipe perfectly happily. 

 

One would need an extra water tank perhaps across the boat at the stern to provide flush water. 

 

My little boat which is 30ft x 10ft6 has 5 separate large stainless steel water tanks and a settling tank for filtration but this is rather unusual. 

 

A proper flushing loo is nice and not implausible if the boat is designed right. 

 

 

 

[MtB]

31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Only because the installations are rubbish. 2 large bore vent pipes, one at each end of the tank, plus an enclosure with a decent fan in one. Still works when the electrics fail and can be flushed with a bucket of canal water if need be.

 

i do wonder if this just transfers the stink to outside the boat.

 

I had to ask to move berths when I was in Thames and Kennet Marina, as the boat next to mine stank like a sewage farm ALL the time. I suspect they had this system. 

 

[David Mack]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

i do wonder if this just transfers the stink to outside the boat.

 

I had to ask to move berths when I was in Thames and Kennet Marina, as the boat next to mine stank like a sewage farm ALL the time. I suspect they had this system. 

 

But any pumpout system has a vent pipe. I suspect the smell was more to do with what had or hadn't been added to the poo.

[magnetman]

Any holding tank system will do this. Some have charcoal filters for it. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

i do wonder if this just transfers the stink to outside the boat.

 

I had to ask to move berths when I was in Thames and Kennet Marina, as the boat next to mine stank like a sewage farm ALL the time. I suspect they had this system. 

 

 

To a degree it does but as the two vents keep plenty of oxygen above the contents aerobic decomposition is far more likely than in an ill vented tank. The stink from maccerator/vacuum toilet tank vents can be far worse, judging from the stink from a hire boat moored next to us in Stratford each time they used the toilet.

[Bod]

Ok, quick run down on boat loos.

2 basic types, large tank or small tank.

Large tank is known as the "Pump Out system".  There is a large tank, metal or plastic usually under the larger bed, connected to the toilet pan.  this can be mounted directly on to the tank, with a valve to allow pan contents to fall into the tank.(also allowing direct viewing of the contents.) or there is a remotepan with a piped connection, often using vacuum, to clear the pan.

As Tony says pump out tanks must be properly vented to avoid smells.  The tank will need sucking out by machine, at a cost.

The small tank system is known as the Cassette type, a small removable tank that is nomally built into the pan, but can be remotely fitted.

As the tank is much smaller it needs emptying more frequently, normally free at "Elsan" points around the canal system.

Extra cassettes can extend the need to find a working Elsan.

Niether type can deal with "wet wipes" or ladies sanitary products.  Indeed heavy quilted loo paper can be a real problem.(use the cheapest loo paper you can find.)

This last line is the one that most ladies have problems with.

 

Bod

[magnetman]

The main issue is a lack of dilution due to restrictions on carrying water in the boat and also tank size and cost of using pumpout services.

 

"Self pumpout" is frowned upon although it does happen. of course if one were to dilute the waste significantly this allows transfer down a much smaller diameter pipe. 

 

Usually pumpout hoses are 1.5 inch diameter because the consistency of the material is not closely approximating a liquid. 

 

 

Put a lot of water with it and you can push it through a 1 inch hose with a chopper (macerator) pump. 

 

I have not tried but I think one could shift the waste through a normal garden hose which makes self pump out via elsan a lot more feasible especially if it is in the same area as the fresh water tap. 

 

Just don't get the 'oses mixed up. 

 

There are more ways to skin a cat than one may first assume. 

 

 

If one were to add to this the ability to remove the top of the holding tank and dig out the sludge every year or two this could all work swimmingly. 

 

It is remarkable how much of a song and dance people make about a daily output which is so tiny.

[mightyslay3r]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Hes quite mad you know.

i've defo come to the right place then 😮😁😃😶‍🌫️🫥😜😝😮‍💨🤪🤪🥸🤡

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

The main issue is a lack of dilution due to restrictions on carrying water in the boat and also tank size and cost of using pumpout services.

 

"Self pumpout" is frowned upon although it does happen. of course if one were to dilute the waste significantly this allows transfer down a much smaller diameter pipe. 

 

Usually pumpout hoses are 1.5 inch diameter because the consistency of the material is not closely approximating a liquid. 

 

 

Put a lot of water with it and you can push it through a 1 inch hose with a chopper (macerator) pump. 

 

I have not tried but I think one could shift the waste through a normal garden hose which makes self pump out via elsan a lot more feasible especially if it is in the same area as the fresh water tap. 

 

Just don't get the 'oses mixed up. 

 

There are more ways to skin a cat than one may first assume. 

 

 

If one were to add to this the ability to remove the top of the holding tank and dig out the sludge every year or two this could all work swimmingly. 

 

It is remarkable how much of a song and dance people make about a daily output which is so tiny.

would it be feasible to add solids dilution fluid to said tank via the loo so has to turn it all fluid-ish? for easier pump out....

and can you gain access to said tank to remove said sludge? it wouldnt bother me.. in my early years i used to steam clean the sewage system at the local sewage works... 

Edited March 6, 2023 by mightyslay3r

[PD1964]

3 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

i've defo come to the right place then 😮😁😃😶‍🌫️🫥😜😝😮‍💨🤪🤪🥸🤡

would it be feasible to add solids dilution fluid to said tank via the loo so has to turn it all fluid-ish? for easier pump out....

Why are you worrying about it so much?
The bedrooms and living area layout will be more of an issue with 3x adults onboard.

[magnetman]

10 minutes ago, mightyslay3r said:

i've defo come to the right place then 😮😁😃😶‍🌫️🫥😜😝😮‍💨🤪🤪🥸🤡

would it be feasible to add solids dilution fluid to said tank via the loo so has to turn it all fluid-ish? for easier pump out....

and can you gain access to said tank to remove said sludge? it wouldnt bother me.. in my early years i used to steam clean the sewage system at the local sewage works... 

 

The system on my boat is just a normal Shires Navy blue suite with a low profile high level cistern. The cistern innards have been modified so instead of being self filling one presses a button which turns on an ordinary water pump to fill it then it flushes itself when ready. 

 

Its a normal flush like you get in the house. A lot of water use. The top of the tank is removable for sludge clearing. 

 

I didn't install it but it is a very interesting way of solving the lavatory  problem. 

 

A beer keg lasts me about 3 days but with the kids on the boat it is only 1 day. I have free dedicated pumpout on my mooring. 

 

Whatever happens on a boat this topic is complicated. 

 

Using a cool box set to deep freeze could be interesting. 

 

 

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, mightyslay3r said:

and can you gain access to said tank to remove said sludge?

When it was a community boat Belfast was fitted with two dump through toilets, each with its own steel waste tank. I removed these last year. They were given a good pumpout, rinse and pumpout first. After cutting off the tops (which were paper thin in places after 30 years). I emptied the remaining liquid and sludge first with a small plastic container and then with a dustpan. It was all pretty inoffensive with not much smell, and just a thin slurry. The only lumpy bits were rust from the top of the tank.  I concluded that the pumpout system had worked well and that worries about waste solidifying in the tank could be ignored.

[magnetman]

i installed a Lavac sea toilet on a previous boat discharging to a 100 litre plastic holding tank. Used for about 5 yars full time domestic use for 4 people. When the boat was sold I took the tank out and it was interesting to see how much solid matter there was in it. 

 

It does depend on the intensity of use. Residential craft will get a lot more throughput than boats used for occasional pleasure purposes. 

 

Also depends on the behaviour of the person doing the pumpout and of course the level of dilution of the input product. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by magnetman

[rusty69]

35 minutes ago, magnetman said:

i installed a Lavac sea toilet on a previous boat discharging to a 100 litre plastic holding tank. Used for about 5 yars full time domestic use for 4 people. When the boat was sold I took the tank out and it was interesting to see how much solid matter there was in it. 

 

It does depend on the intensity of use. Residential craft will get a lot more throughput than boats used for occasional pleasure purposes. 

 

Also depends on the behaviour of the person doing the pumpout and of course the level of dilution of the input product. 

We have a lavac sea toilet with a Henderson manual pump. Fantastic thing it is. 

[magnetman]

31 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

We have a lavac sea toilet with a Henderson manual pump. Fantastic thing it is. 

Yes it was a very good item. I plumbed it in with a self filling fresh water flush cistern with solenoid valve and float switch. Worked very nicely for 24/7 living with woman and children aboard for several yars.  That loo did a lot of work. 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

A beer keg lasts me about 3 days but with the kids on the boat it is only 1 day.

 

 

It must make the beer taste funny though...