DIY epoxy blacking.

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

There is a sort of nightmare scenario that has occurred to me- unlikely but possible- and that is I find significant pitting in some places. 

What measuring tools or techniques might one use to asses how serious any pitting is, if you see something you don't like the look of? 

 There wont be a lot of time to get a pro or surveyor involved as its all within a week or two at most, so it might be worth genning up on any likely methods of assessing how serious/deep pits are- kind of like a contingency plan. 

You could always prebook a surveyor to attend. If you had a survey done when you bought it, I doubt it has deteriorated that much anyway if you've only had it a couple of years. 

 

Hammer testing and ultrasonic thickness testing is the norm. Large pits are easy to eyeball, or if wide enough can be measured with the depth end of a vernier. 

 

The base plate is also worth inspecting, and the internal steel, if you have access to it. 

Edited January 28 by rusty69

[Tony1]

 

This might be worth a thought- a portable blaster for £70. 

 

Probably much less powerful than a hire machine, so less chance of enlarging an existing pit so it creates an actual hole maybe?

God knows where I'd put it on the boat, but in the unlikely event that it could actually do a decent job, you could also use it for painting jobs etc.

 

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cpsb1-portable-sandblaster-kit/

 

 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

This might be worth a thought- a portable blaster for £70. 

 

Probably much less powerful than a hire machine, so less chance of enlarging an existing pit so it creates an actual hole maybe?

God knows where I'd put it on the boat, but in the unlikely event that it could actually do a decent job, you could also use it for painting jobs etc.

 

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cpsb1-portable-sandblaster-kit/

 

 

You'd need to house the compressor too. 

 

I guess if a boat can't take a bit of grit blasting without holing it, it's not long for welding /plating anyway. 

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

You'd need to house the compressor too. 

 

I guess if a boat can't take a bit of grit blasting without holing it, it's not long for welding /plating anyway. 

 

Maybe hire the compressor when needed? Be a damn sight cheaper than hiring a blaster for £100 a day, I would think. 

 

If you do try any DIY blasting, please do let us know how it goes. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

24 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

In a place where they do blasting themselves, they might be able to make arrangements to deal with the grit.

I'm considering changing and using Northwich dry dock myself this summer. They do blasting so will probably be more amenable to me doing it myself.

If there's a modest charge for them to remove the grit, then fair enough. Worth it, if it means a really good job. 

 

The charge for pro grit blasting seems a bit steep compared to the cost of hiring a DIY unit, hopefully that's not because they are really difficult to use properly.

Certainly worth a closer look though, and Evans are a national firm. 

 

 

I don't think they do grit blasting, never seen any sign of it.

[David Mack]

30 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

If you have a car or can hire transport, maybe you could hire out a grit blaster? 

 

This is one example, they hire a blaster for £100 per day, plus £7 for the gun and about a fiver for a 25kg bag of grit. 

One would imagine that after a good strong pressure wash, you could probably blast the hull clean in say 2 days? 

If you could, then for around £300 you could maybe do a half decent job of it yourself, and you'd certainly get into all the pits etc.

Also, it could be a lot less hard graft than some of the more manual scraping-type tools you might use. 

Its not the kind of thing you'd do at every blacking, but maybe once every 10 years to really get into the nooks and crannies etc.

 

https://www.evans-plant-hire.co.uk/plant-hire/sand-blasting/sand-blasting/

 

 

Days doing it yourself with a Tercoo, or the cost of hiring a blaster plus buying all the media? You would probably be better off getting someone like Mick Blackley in for a day.

 

 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

Maybe hire the compressor when needed? Be a damn sight cheaper than hiring a blaster for £100 a day, I would think. 

 

If you do try any DIY blasting, please do let us know how it goes. 

 

 

Will do. The place I  going has something called a hydroblaster, so I might try that. I'm yet to talk to the chap who operates it for his opinion. 

 

I get the impression it's a pressure washer with the ability to add some kind of sand in with the mix. 

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I don't think they do grit blasting, never seen any sign of it.

Thanks, I'll call and ask if I'm allowed to use one in there. 

 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Days doing it yourself with a Tercoo, or the cost of hiring a blaster plus buying all the media? You would probably be better off getting someone like Mick Blackley in for a day.

 

 

He looks good. Yorkshire though.

[David Mack]

8 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

He looks good. Yorkshire though.

Where are you docking? You can probably find a local mobile blaster.

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Where are you docking? You can probably find a local mobile blaster.

River Nene.

Edited January 28 by rusty69

[Tony1]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Days doing it yourself with a Tercoo, or the cost of hiring a blaster plus buying all the media? You would probably be better off getting someone like Mick Blackley in for a day.

 

 

 

I think everyone approaches this task in slightly different way- everyone has their own budget, their own skill/experience levels, and levels of fitness for really hard work. 

Some people will labour like maniacs all day long to save £50 on a job, others will happily pay a pro £500 for labour they could have done themselves in say 2 full days of hard work. 

In an ideal world I'd definitely hire Mick, he looks the real deal- but everything depends on the price. 

If DIY sandblasting is feasible for under £200, I'd probably be tempted to have a go.

If a pro can do it for £300, then for the sake of another hundred I'd hire the pro all day long. 

 

 

 

 

 

[haggis]

18 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Thanks, I'll call and ask if I'm allowed to use one in there. 

 

I am no technical expert but I would think the pressure washer they use in Northwich (which you can probably hire to do the job yourself) would be more effective than any grit blaster you can hire.  Because so many people weren't able to get to the dry dock last year when the lift broke down, I expect they will be pretty busy this year so if you are thinking of going there don't leave it too late to book.  They take two boats at a time and you are in dry dock from Saturday to Saturday

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I think everyone approaches this task in slightly different way- everyone has their own budget, their own skill/experience levels, and levels of fitness for really hard work. 

Some people will labour like maniacs all day long to save £50 on a job, others will happily pay a pro £500 for labour they could have done themselves in say 2 full days of hard work. 

In an ideal world I'd definitely hire Mick, he looks the real deal- but everything depends on the price. 

If DIY sandblasting is feasible for under £200, I'd probably be tempted to have a go.

If a pro can do it for £300, then for the sake of another hundred I'd hire the pro all day long. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. For us, we have always done our own boat. This is probably the 10th time in 24 years, plus the other boat we own, maybe 6-7 times. We know exactly what is involved in doing bitumen. This is our first time attempting epoxy though, so its all a bit of an unknown. I have a small amount of experience using Jotun 87 before, so I'm not totally green. However, as always, the key to success is in the prep.

 

I'm still not convinced we can get a good enough finish to get the benefit of the Jotun epoxy, and am leaning towards the ballastic stuff. Either way, I have got to the stage where using bitumen every couple of years is becoming harder and harder. If we can stave off the overplating a few years more, it will give me time to collect the money to do have it done. This can then be properly epoxy coated.

 

I see very little benefit spending 8K (or whatever it is ) having a professional job done.

[rusty69]

A huge thanks to all those that have contributed. 

 

I think i have a good idea of what we are going to do now. 

[Bee]

On 27/01/2023 at 19:37, rusty69 said:

I've used jotmastic 87 before on our engine room, but of course, that didn't go over bitumen. 

 

The first two I mentioned in my OP, the glass flake stuff, I was advised could only go on if all the bitumen was removed. It was also a lot more expensive than the jotun and the ballastic stuff. 

 

It will be interesting to see how yours has faired. When is it out? 

This summer if I can find somewhere to lift it out. Its in France and we are hoping to explore parts that we are not too familiar with.

[blackrose]

On 27/01/2023 at 17:17, rusty69 said:

Thanks Mike. That is one of the questions I was trying to get answered, whether DIY ing it can get the surface to a good enough finish to either take Jotun 90 or the Ballastic stuff. Clearly grit blasting is the ultimate solution, but others seem to have gone the DIY route.

 

If the answer is no, then as you say, we may as well go the bitumen route. 

 

Unless you get it blasted I don't think it's worth applying epoxy.  A scabbler isn't going to do it properly.

[matty40s]

32 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Unless you get it blasted I don't think it's worth applying epoxy.  A scabbler isn't going to do it properly.

A scabbler jams up within 2 feet of bitumen...melts it and clogs the wheels, definitely  not a good idea.

[rusty69]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Unless you get it blasted I don't think it's worth applying epoxy.  A scabbler isn't going to do it properly.

Thanks. I hadn't even considered using a scabbler for the job. 

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Thanks. I hadn't even considered using a scabbler for the job. 

Dont.🙂

[rusty69]

15 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Dont.🙂

It's too late. I have now considered it. 

[Goliath]

10 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Unless you get it blasted I don't think it's worth applying epoxy.  A scabbler isn't going to do it properly.

 

What happens when bitumen and Epoxy don’t mix?

If laying epoxy on bitumen what is expected to happen to the paints?

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

What happens when bitumen and Epoxy don’t mix?

If laying epoxy on bitumen what is expected to happen to the paints?

I suspect it doesn't adhere as well as it might. 

 

My dilemma is that I don't expect it to, but if it lasts double the time of bitumen, I'm a winner. 

 

If it falls straight off again, I'm a loser. 

 

Real world experience of people's results is what is required here. 

The thing about bitumen, is its also likely to fall off rapidly at the waterline when in contact with diesel.

 

Some marinas where careless filling is allowed can soon wipe out your weeks hard work, not to mention hard earned cash. 

[rusty69]

Maybe a happy. Compromise  would be to epoxy the waterline area only. 

Edited January 29 by rusty69

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I suspect it doesn't adhere as well as it might. 

 

My dilemma is that I don't expect it to, but if it lasts double the time of bitumen, I'm a winner. 

 

If it falls straight off again, I'm a loser. 

 

That was my view of it as well. Problem is, Northwich is the only yard I know of that are doing it at the moment.