DIY epoxy blacking.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

 

Would be interested to know..........

 

 

what the results were?

Well I was happy to pay for the 2pk treatment again after 4 years, it wasn't pristine by any stretch of the imagination like I would expect if it had been blasted steel but I think the cost is in line with bitumen out every 2-3 years and the protection better. There are photos of my boat and the one next door done with Bitumen on my blog at Harnser's Travels: Northwich Dry Dock (nbharnser.blogspot.com) 

[rusty69]

So, the big week has arrived, and not without a few hiccups.

The bitumen is proving very stubborn to remove, particularly the part above the waterline, which is obviously less important.

After initial scraping, and a hydro blaster working at less than optimal pressure, further scraping and copious amounts of grinding with cup brushes in an angle grinder, the bitumen persists.
The best tool so far appears to be an abracs poly abrasive disc, but alas, they don't last very long, and I only had one in my collection.

 

The flap discs just clog up after not many feet, and scraper blades soon blunt.

Fingers crossed the high power pressure washer will be fixed soon, and remove the rest of the bitumen.

Failing that, its going to be paint the epoxy on top and hope for the best.

That is all.
 

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

So, the big week has arrived, and not without a few hiccups.

The bitumen is proving very stubborn to remove, particularly the part above the waterline, which is obviously less important.

After initial scraping, and a hydro blaster working at less than optimal pressure, further scraping and copious amounts of grinding with cup brushes in an angle grinder, the bitumen persists.
The best tool so far appears to be an abracs poly abrasive disc, but alas, they don't last very long, and I only had one in my collection.

 

The flap discs just clog up after not many feet, and scraper blades soon blunt.

Fingers crossed the high power pressure washer will be fixed soon, and remove the rest of the bitumen.

Failing that, its going to be paint the epoxy on top and hope for the best.

That is all.
 

I thought that was the plan if you wernt grit blasting the hull

[rusty69]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

I thought that was the plan if you wernt grit blasting the hull

Nope. The plan was to have a fully functioning hydro blaster. Alas, the best laid plans sometimes fail.

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Nope. The plan was to have a fully functioning hydro blaster. Alas, the best laid plans sometimes fail.

What pressure would that work at?

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

What pressure would that work at?

I dunno. Suspect at full pressure it's in the region of 2000 Bar.

[Tony1]

 

Thanks a lot, its very kind of you to give an update, and I'm really sorry to hear about the snags- and I must say I've run into some snags myself.

I'm booked into have a high pressure wash on 15th July, followed by the 2 pack treatment. 

But I was in an area with much clearer water recently, and I could see significant patches of visible rust below the waterline. 

The boat is about 7 years old so I'm hoping the rust isn't too deep, but with just 4 weeks to go, I'm now in a bit of a jam.

I'm reluctant to cancel my slot, as I don't know if I'll find another (at a decent place) before the cooler weather arrives.

On the other hand, I dont want them to just slap 2 pack on over a rusting surface. 

All I can think of the moment is to wait until the pressure wash is done, and then to spend the rest of that day going over the whole hull (below the waterline) with a grinder (and a flap disc), in the hope of removing as much surface rust as possible before they start the primer etc. 

I wish now that I'd booked a 2 week haul out and had thus allowed plenty of time to remove any rust from the hull, but now I'm going to be really up against it, with at most 8-10 hours after the pressure wash to do whatever I can in terms of preparing the surface. 

I feel like this should really have been a grit blast treatment to do it properly, but their tight 1-week schedule will not allow for any third parties to turn up and spend 2 days blasting. So I'm going to have to revisit the whole thing in another 2 years, instead of maybe 5 years as I was hoping. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Tony1

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

After initial scraping, and a hydro blaster working at less than optimal pressure, further scraping and copious amounts of grinding with cup brushes in an angle grinder, the bitumen persists.

A few years back when blacking Fulbourne we decided to remove the existing craggy tar/bitumen coating. We found wire cup brushes in an angle grinder were the best bet, although slow. Basically you hold the brush against the edge of the blacking until it gets hot enough to soften, and then it gets removed by the brush, and then advance onto the next bit. We were mob-handed though so it was a practical approach when we only had a week in the dock.

[rusty69]

10 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks a lot, its very kind of you to give an update, and I'm really sorry to hear about the snags- and I must say I've run into some snags myself.

I'm booked into have a high pressure wash on 15th July, followed by the 2 pack treatment. 

But I was in an area with much clearer water recently, and I could see significant patches of visible rust below the waterline. 

The boat is about 7 years old so I'm hoping the rust isn't too deep, but with just 4 weeks to go, I'm now in a bit of a jam.

I'm reluctant to cancel my slot, as I don't know if I'll find another (at a decent place) before the cooler weather arrives.

On the other hand, I dont want them to just slap 2 pack on over a rusting surface. 

All I can think of the moment is to wait until the pressure wash is done, and then to spend the rest of that day going over the whole hull (below the waterline) with a grinder (and a flap disc), in the hope of removing as much surface rust as possible before they start the primer etc. 

I wish now that I'd booked a 2 week haul out and had thus allowed plenty of time to remove any rust from the hull, but now I'm going to be really up against it, with at most 8-10 hours after the pressure wash to do whatever I can in terms of preparing the surface. 

I feel like this should really have been a grit blast treatment to do it properly, but their tight 1-week schedule will not allow for any third parties to turn up and spend 2 days blasting. So I'm going to have to revisit the whole thing in another 2 years, instead of maybe 5 years as I was hoping. 

 

 

 

 

I think, given you only have a week, unless you have a very short boat, I would try and hire at least one set of extra hands to help with the grinding. 

 

Two of us today managed to get about half a 70ft boat done to not a very high standard. 

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A few years back when blacking Fulbourne we decided to remove the existing craggy tar/bitumen coating. We found wire cup brushes in an angle grinder were the best bet, although slow. Basically you hold the brush against the edge of the blacking until it gets hot enough to soften, and then it gets removed by the brush, and then advance onto the next bit. We were mob-handed though so it was a practical approach when we only had a week in the dock.

That is the technique we are using. Perhaps I am expecting too much, and just need to work harder (oh, and get a shed load more brushes in). 

[Jon57]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I think, given you only have a week, unless you have a very short boat, I would try and hire at least one set of extra hands to help with the grinding. 

 

Two of us today managed to get about half a 70ft boat done to not a very high standard. 

That is the technique we are using. Perhaps I am expecting too much, and just need to work harder (oh, and get a shed load more brushes in). 

Gone up in price quite substantial since I bought some but are the dogs preverbal.

[rusty69]

16 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

wish now that I'd booked a 2 week haul out and had thus allowed plenty of time to remove any rust from the hull, but now I'm going to be really up against it, with at most 8-10 hours after the pressure wash to do whatever I can in terms of preparing the surface. 

Also if you can see rust and it hasn't had a chance to start attacking the steel, it is much quicker to prep for painting then if its covered in bitumen. 

 

Obviously, if you need additional work, that could be a problem unless they have a welder in site. 

Just now, Jon57 said:

Gone up in price quite substantial since I bought some but are the dogs preverbal.

Yeah, I should have bought one. 

[Jon57]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Also if you can see rust and it hasn't had a chance to start attacking the steel, it is much quicker to prep for painting then if its covered in bitumen. 

 

Obviously, if you need additional work, that could be a problem unless they have a welder in site. 

Yeah, I should have bought one. 

Just done the base plate on my boat. Never again. Still having nightmares. Getting too old for all this .😱😱

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Jon57 said:

Just done the base plate on my boat. Never again. Still having nightmares. Getting too old for all this .😱😱

You should have a glass bottom fitted (to the boat). We did this years ago, and can now spend all day looking at disgarded shopping trolleys and old bikes. 

[Jon57]

Just now, rusty69 said:

You should have a glass bottom fitted (to the boat). We did this years ago, and can now spend all day looking at disgarded shopping trolleys and old bikes. 

My bottom felt like broken glass by the time I finished.🤭

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Yes, glad you got back on this. 
 

So what sort of sized patches are you struggling with?

 

Nail guns are great!

But to work with for a long time are horrible, bad for the hands and wrists. 
You can get special gloves that help a bit. I’m sure you know. 
But they are great for doing the welds on rubbing strakes. 
I reckon between you, you could probably chase a few inches along the water line and do the rubbing strakes. 

Stand on a crate or whatever where you can and work with the gun at waist height so there’s no weight as such and they’re a doddle to use. 
20min a time and swop over. You’ll get lots done quite quickly. 
 

Good luck what ever you do👍

[rusty69]

Just now, Goliath said:

Yes, glad you got back on this. 
 

So what sort of sized patches are you struggling with?

 

Nail guns are great!

But to work with for a long time are horrible, bad for the hands and wrists. 
You can get special gloves that help a bit. I’m sure you know. 
But they are great for doing the welds on rubbing strakes. 
I reckon between you, you could probably chase a few inches along the water line and do the rubbing strakes. 

Stand on a crate or whatever where you can and work with the gun at waist height so there’s no weight as such and they’re a doddle to use. 
20min a time and swop over. You’ll get lots done quite quickly. 
 

Good luck what ever you do👍

Assume you mean needle gun. 

 

Wellll, the area we are struggling with at the moment is about 22m x 1m on both sides. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

19 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Assume you mean needle gun. 

 

Wellll, the area we are struggling with at the moment is about 22m x 1m on both sides. 

Yes needle 😃

 

🥔 🍅 

 

22x1 metre? 

Tricky. 
Good luck. 
I can’t think of owt that ain’t already been said other than leave it and paint over. If it don’t wanna come off then leave it. Scuff it up to create a key and paint over. 
But then I’m lazy. The right epoxy will adhere to it but as you know it’ll be like a crust over a softer surface. 
 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Goliath

[kris88]

11 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Also if you can see rust and it hasn't had a chance to start attacking the steel, it is much quicker to prep for painting then if its covered in bitumen. 

 

Obviously, if you need additional work, that could be a problem unless they have a welder in site. 

Yeah, I should have bought one. 

Yep I can confirm that Tercoo’s are the best for removing bitumen. Did all of my boat last year in a week. But with the 8 wheel one. They are worth their weight in gold, you can get the steel clean enough for 2pack. Spinning them slowly is the key, so a polisher is good. Drills tend to spin the smaller tercoos too fast so they don’t last long. But a combination of the eight disc for flat surfaces and a single or double for the bits you can’t get in at with the larger one. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by kris88

[rusty69]

19 minutes ago, kris88 said:

Yep I can confirm that Tercoo’s are the best for removing bitumen. Did all off my boat last year in a week. But with the 8 wheel one. They are worth their weight in gold, you can get the steel clean enough for 2pack. 

Yep. I should have listened to those that have used one. Unfortuately, its probably a bit late in the day for me to get hold of one.

[kris88]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Yep. I should have listened to those that have used one. Unfortuately, its probably a bit late in the day for me to get hold of one.

Yes to get a good deal I had to order the eight disc one from Spain? I’m sorry I didn’t see this thread before. I went the jotun route, using tercoos to prep the surface. I’m happy with the results, but time will tell. 

[matty40s]

13 hours ago, rusty69 said:

 

The best tool so far appears to be an abracs poly abrasive disc, but alas, they don't last very long, and I only had one in my collection.

Fingers crossed the high power pressure washer will be fixed soon, and remove the rest of the bitumen.

 

 

We have just taken a complete rust bucket  boat back to metal,  and went through 6 packs of those discs, (a out £300!!)

You may find that the pressure washer is at the mercy of the tap water pressure, we have made a large additional reservoir which we run it from, can usually clean half a 60 footer before it runs out, then by the time you have had a cup of tea, has refilled for the other half.

If your washer is filled via a siphon pump from canal, you may find it is just the filter compromising pressure.

Edited June 18, 2023 by matty40s

[rusty69]

19 minutes ago, matty40s said:

We have just taken a complete rust bucket  boat back to metal,  and went through 6 packs of those discs, (a out £300!!)

You may find that the pressure washer is at the mercy of the tap water pressure, we have made a large additional reservoir which we run it from, can usually clean half a 60 footer before it runs out, then by the time you have had a cup of tea, has refilled for the other half.

If your washer is filled via a siphon pump from canal, you may find it is just the filter compromising pressure.

Interesting. When you say resevoir. What capacity is it? Assume the machine can pump straight from the resevoir.

Edited June 18, 2023 by rusty69

[matty40s]

18 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Interesting. When you say resevoir. What capacity is it? Assume the machine can pump straight from the resevoir.

Large barrel about 400 litres, filled from tap using a toilet ball valve at the top, and the pressure washer runs from a tap at the base. All home made of course.

[n-baj]

13 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks a lot, its very kind of you to give an update, and I'm really sorry to hear about the snags- and I must say I've run into some snags myself.

I'm booked into have a high pressure wash on 15th July, followed by the 2 pack treatment. 

But I was in an area with much clearer water recently, and I could see significant patches of visible rust below the waterline. 

The boat is about 7 years old so I'm hoping the rust isn't too deep, but with just 4 weeks to go, I'm now in a bit of a jam.

I'm reluctant to cancel my slot, as I don't know if I'll find another (at a decent place) before the cooler weather arrives.

On the other hand, I dont want them to just slap 2 pack on over a rusting surface. 

All I can think of the moment is to wait until the pressure wash is done, and then to spend the rest of that day going over the whole hull (below the waterline) with a grinder (and a flap disc), in the hope of removing as much surface rust as possible before they start the primer etc. 

I wish now that I'd booked a 2 week haul out and had thus allowed plenty of time to remove any rust from the hull, but now I'm going to be really up against it, with at most 8-10 hours after the pressure wash to do whatever I can in terms of preparing the surface. 

I feel like this should really have been a grit blast treatment to do it properly, but their tight 1-week schedule will not allow for any third parties to turn up and spend 2 days blasting. So I'm going to have to revisit the whole thing in another 2 years, instead of maybe 5 years as I was hoping. 

 

 

 

 

Speak to Matt with your concerns and see what he says, I found him helpful and friendly. He might be using a surface tolerant epoxy so a little rust is okay. They empty the dry dock late morning and he more or less starts to jet wash straight away and won’t start to paint until next day so you’ll have afternoon and evening to sort out any rust if you wish. The jet wash is very powerful so will get rid of any loose rust.

 

if I was in the area Tony I’d give you a hand but I’m currently in Yorkshire.

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, n-baj said:

 

if I was in the area Tony I’d give you a hand but I’m currently in Yorkshire.

 

I'll have you helicoptered in!