DIY epoxy blacking.

[blackrose]

9 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I would have agreed 100% had I not watched the Chemco product be applied to wet, gingered steel in the rain and then monitored it's performance over the following three years. A single coat held perfectly without any top coat.

 

For how long?

 

So why does the company who manufacture the Chemco product advise that it should NOT be applied to wet steel and that the steel must be prepared to ST2 or better? That's less surface tolerant than Jotamastic 90.

[Bargebuilder]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

 

When I contacted chemco, their commercial coordinator advised me of the following. He mentioned nothing about mixing with water, or applying in the rain:

 

RS500P repels water during application, displacing it not mixing with it.

 

It may be no better than the Jotan equivalent, but it is very good indeed.

 

This is how Chemco describe the properties of RS500P on their website:

 

Epo-chem™ RS 500P is a unique solvent-free, wet & rust tolerant epoxy primer or primer/finish protective coating.

The system’s long-term performance is based on completely sealing the surface and arresting the rust totally.

The use of sacrificial fillers enables it to be applied to surface standards as low as Sa 1, WJ-4 or St 2. It can be utilised as a one-coat system by brush, roller or airless spray.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

For how long?

 

So why does the company who manufacture the Chemco product advise that it should NOT be applied to wet steel and that the steel must be prepared to ST2 or better? That's less surface tolerant than Jotamastic 90.

Bear in mind the vessel was not put into service either. It was sat in a yard for 3 years. 

[Bargebuilder]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

For how long?

 

So why does the company who manufacture the Chemco product advise that it should NOT be applied to wet steel and that the steel must be prepared to ST2 or better? That's less surface tolerant than Jotamastic 90.

They don't!

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

RS500P repels water during application, displacing it not mixing with it.

 

It may be no better than the Jotan equivalent, but it is very good indeed.

 

This is how Chemco describe the properties of RS500P on their website:

 

Epo-chem™ RS 500P is a unique solvent-free, wet & rust tolerant epoxy primer or primer/finish protective coating.

The system’s long-term performance is based on completely sealing the surface and arresting the rust totally.

The use of sacrificial fillers enables it to be applied to surface standards as low as Sa 1, WJ-4 or St 2. It can be utilised as a one-coat system by brush, roller or airless spray.

I would expect it to be at least twice as good, as its is twice as expensive.  That is not to say it was within my budget. 

 

You say "I wouldn't exclude the chemco product on the basis of cost". However cost is a major factor to consider for us, and I suspect the vast majority of DIYer's, and it kind of belittles the decision we made.

Edited June 24, 2023 by rusty69

[Bargebuilder]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Bear in mind the vessel was not put into service either. It was sat in a yard for 3 years. 

But my barge was coated 12 years ago and it has been in sea water all of that time.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

But my barge was coated 12 years ago and it has been in sea water all of that time.

I understand that, but you are also recomending the product on the basis of the story you told of having observed a boat that was painted when wet and stood in a yard for three years, and presumably not put into service.

 

So, what we need for a like for like comparison is someone who prepped their hull similar to yours and applied jotamastic 90 and then kept it in sea water.

 

Unfortunately, I don't suppose there will be many people coming forward on a canal forum.

[Bargebuilder]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

I would expect it to be at least twice as good, as its is twice as expensive.  That is not to say it was within my bugdet. 

 

You say "I wouldn't exclude the chemco product on the basis of cost". However cost is a major factor to consider for us, and I suspect the vast majority of DIYer's, and it kind of belittles the decision we made.

My suggestion was, that money saved on not needing to grit blast may far exceed the additional cost of a more surface tolerant paint.

 

The information I gave was my personal experience with a particular product. It was aimed not at any individual, but at anyone trawling the forum, now and in the future, for information on hull coatings.

 

 

[blackrose]

10 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

They don't!

 

They do according to Rusty who actually spoke to them. See his post above.

[Bargebuilder]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I understand that, but you are also recomending the product on the basis of the story you told of having observed a boat that was painted when wet and stood in a yard for three years, and presumably not put into service.

Absolutely right, I can only say for certain that a single coat of RS500P when applied to wet gingered steel will seal and prevent further corrosion in readiness for a top coat for three years

 

I chose the same product on the basis of how well it performed on that boat.

 

My boat used the primer and the top coat and shows no sign of degradation after 12 years in sea water.

 

I hope that has clarified the situation.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

My suggestion was, that money saved on not needing to grit blast may far exceed the additional cost of a more surface tolerant paint.

 

The information I gave was my personal experience with a particular product. It was aimed not at any individual, but at anyone trawling the forum, now and in the future, for information on hull coatings.

 

 

It was aimed at me. You quoted me saying I had discounted a particular product due to cost, and then went on to tell me  "I wouldn't exclude the chemco product on the basis of cost".

 

It's like most things in life, you cut your cloth according to your size.

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

13 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

It was aimed at me. You quoted me saying I had discounted a particular product due to cost, and then went on to tell me  "I wouldn't exclude the chemco product on the basis of cost".

 

It's like most things in life, you cut your cloth according to your size.

 

 

My only reason for contributing to the thread, was to let readers know from my first hand experience, how good the Chemco system was. 

 

Folks will look at the price and decide if it's for them. 

 

It wasn't for you and who knows, the system you used might be superior as well as less expensive.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

My only reason for contributing to the thread, was to let readers know from my first hand experience, how good the Chemco system was. 

 

Folks will look at the price and decide if it's for them. 

 

It wasn't for you and who knows, the system you used might be superior as well as less expensive.

Thanks for your input. 

 

For me, it was a worth-while product to investigate, along with the Sherwin Williams product. 

[Bargebuilder]

33 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

They do according to Rusty who actually spoke to them. See his post above.

I simply lifted the text from the manufacturer's website. It makes for interesting reading if you've got a moment to have a look.

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Thanks for your input. 

 

For me, it was a worth-while product to investigate, along with the Sherwin Williams product. 

I know nothing about Sherwin Williams products, but I hope not to have to epoxy coat another boat ever again, so I'll not be researching them.

 

Laying on your back under a steel vessel and applying seven coats of gloopy epoxy is for a younger man than me. I still remember my wife having to cut lumps out of my hair where I accidentally brushed against the wet paint.

 

Not fun to do, but satisfying once finished.

[kris88]

22 hours ago, rusty69 said:

 

To Finish this subject off and impart my new found wisdom onto any other poor fool who decides to save a few quid and go down the DIY epoxy route and who may aimlessly happen upon this thread.

DON'T DO IT.

Take Alan's advice, the very first reply. Pay a man that can.

If you really want to paint 2 pack epoxy on the hull yourself, then by far the best option would be to pay someone to grit blast it first.

Lessons learnt:

1. Bitumen is a bitch to fully remove with the tools we had at our disposal; particularly if your hull has some pitting. The tools we used included a high power hydro blaster, scrapers, wire cup brushes, flap discs, poly discs, and flat wire brushes. We probably consumed 20 scraper blades,12 wire cup brushes,12 flap discs, 4 flat wire brushes, one poly disc and 22 litres of epoxy, 8 paint brushes and 18 rollers. Various paint buckets/trays, some thinners and quite a few electrons.

2. If doing it again, which I won't, then my tool of choice would be a tercoo rotary blaster.

3. A more sensible approach would have been to 2 pack the part from just above the waterline to the base plate  where the bitumen had less layers and was easier to remove, and leave the part above.Or to just reapply bitumen.Same with the uxter plate, where years of bitumen had built up.

4. We booked two weeks out in an uncovered yard, which was about right. With the various problems, and dodging the odd rain shower, less than 2 weeks would not have been achievable.

5. A covered area would have been much better. A covered heated area, the thing of dreams.Do not paint outside unless you can predict the weather. The forecast is usually not to be trusted. On our first coat there was a 5% chance of rain forecast, which turned into a huge thunderstorm that lasted an hour as soon as we had finished painting.

6. Temperature wise, we had a good week for epoxy curing, with daytime temperatures exceeding 22 degrees and nightimes in the low teens. The choice of winter grade hardener was a good one. Although the pot life is short, which results in a number of batches per coat being required, the subsequent time to reach fully cured is shortened.

 If we had selected standard grade hardener, I would have preferred an extra week.

7. If at all possible, try to vary the colour of the two pack on each coat. It makes it much, much easier to see the bits you have missed. We bought some red tint to add to the Aluminium epoxy, though tinted epoxy is also available.

8. If you can get some extra hands in to help with the prep, things will go much quicker. Ours is a 70ft boat, and with the exception of the hydro blaster and some pit welding, the prep was undertaken solely by me and Mrs R.

9. Our hull is 40 years old, and many people commented that it was in great condition for its age, so we had obviously been doing something right with the tried and tested methods all these years.

10. It is very tempting to buy all the epoxy up front and have it delivered. There is a risk in doing so that you don't make it to your destination due to a lock failure or mechanical breakdown. One of the tins we had delivered was split, and the contents leaked.

Whether 2 pack was worth the cost and effort, only time will tell.

Thankyou to everyone who has contributed to this thread, and a huge thankyou to mr @blackrose who has offered us an immense amount of support behind the scenes.

Good luck to all you DIY epoxiers out there.

Glad to know your still alive and have survived the experience. It’s a shame about not finding out about tercoos sooner. Your experience would have been completely different. 

[rusty69]

2 hours ago, kris88 said:

Glad to know your still alive and have survived the experience. It’s a shame about not finding out about tercoos sooner. Your experience would have been completely different. 

I think someone mentioned the tercoo earlier in the thread, but for some reason, I dismissed the idea.

[Bargebuilder]

Has anyone ever tried the attachments that turn pressure washers into DIY wet blast machines?

 

I assume that they are better than water alone, but will they cut through blacking, rust etc? Are they slower, faster, better or worse than a Tercoo?

 

I'm guessing that they use a lot of grit and that may be expensive, but a professional grit blasting company may charge many thousands of pounds, so if it works, a fortune could be saved.

[kris88]

46 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I think someone mentioned the tercoo earlier in the thread, but for some reason, I dismissed the idea.

I think if I hadn’t respected the person who told me about them, I would have dismissed them as exspensive gimmicks. They cost me about £800 for two with polishers. But I think would have been similar had I tried to take the bitumen off by disks etc. plus it would have taken longer and been a more difficult job. 

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, kris88 said:

I think if I hadn’t respected the person who told me about them, I would have dismissed them as exspensive gimmicks. They cost me about £800 for two with polishers. But I think would have been similar had I tried to take the bitumen off by disks etc. plus it would have taken longer and been a more difficult job. 

I don't think it was the cost that deterred me. When I looked at them, I could only see three wheel jobs that fitted in a drill, and it struck be that it would take for ever. However, the 8 wheel thing you have sounds like a much more capable beast.

Edited June 25, 2023 by rusty69

[kris88]

The cost definitely deterred me. But in the end they where cost effective. Anyway you’ve survived you’ve done it now. No need to ever do it again. 
ps I know quite a few people who have used jotun90 and are happy with the results. 
 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, kris88 said:

The cost definitely deterred me. But in the end they where cost effective. Anyway you’ve survived you’ve done it now. No need to ever do it again. 
ps I know quite a few people who have used jotun90 and are happy with the results. 
 

The cost is similar to what I have paid for the high power pressure washer, and of course, you get to keep the tools at the end of the job, whilst I don't.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[LadyG]

On 27/01/2023 at 17:44, Jon57 said:

That’s for the prep of a 56ft sides only. 

I prepped my 57 ft boat which was in excellent condition having been epoxied from new. No rust.

It took eight days in all, perfect weather one good brush coat at vulnerable areas and three coats rollered.

SML Paints sell kits. They recommended Jotamastic 90. It has faded on waterline, I believe that there is a top coating to make it look smarter longer. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kris88]

There is a top coat for jotun 90. That’s because technically jotun 90 is a high build primer. 

[Bargebuilder]

6 minutes ago, kris88 said:

There is a top coat for jotun 90. That’s because technically jotun 90 is a high build primer. 

...and is sensitive to UV light and degrades/discolours in exposed locations.