Accumulator tank info

[carp-addict]

Hi All

Some info please from the experienced members

 

Ever since I purchased the boat when I turn on any taps or shower  the water pump immediately sounds and starts pumping, Am I right in thinking that since I have an accumulator tank there should be a delay in the pump  starting and in theory you should be able to wash your hands without noise every time. I had a look at the tank yesterday and unscrewed the black cap to reveal an inflation valve like you would find on a bike. I pressed the top to see if there was any air in the tank and water squirted out.

Should this happen or is the tank knackered and a new one required.

 

Cheers

[Karen Lea Rainey]

The accumulator has lost its charge of air, to replace it you need to turn off your stop cock from your water tank, run a good few remaining  litres of water out of your taps, then get a bike/ foot pump and put the air back in to about 1.5 bar( or whatever your tank says the pressure should be on the accumulator tank), this pumps up the balloon diaphragm  inside the accumulator , turn your water back on. and then when you turn the tap back on it will use the water in your accumulator prior to the pump kicking in every time you turn the tap on, (before the pressure valve thinks I've gotta replace the water used immediately). 

Worked on mine anyway, 

[frangar]

It sounds like the bladder has burst in the accumulator or the wrong type (non potable) has been used. You could try repressurising but given that water may well be in contact with untreated steel unless you know it’s for potable water I’d be replacing. Set the psi to a couple of psi below the pump cut In pressure. Somewhere around 7-10 psi is in the right area. That’s with the pump off and taps open. 

[Tony Brooks]

Deleted - wrong info, still hallf asleep.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Tony Brooks
Deleted - wrong info, still hallf asleep.

[Tracy D'arth]

If water comes out of the air valve the accumulator is totally shot, the bladder inside has ruptued

 

To be completely clear, there should never be any water in the steel can. All the water is contained in the rubber bladder and the air between can and bladder controls the inflation of the bladder by the water pump. You will find contradictory information which is wrong.

 You need a new accumulator. 

To set the working air pressure, pump up the air to around 35 psi, turn on the water pump and open a tap. let it flow for a moment and then turn it off, The pump will run and stop itself.

Very slowly depress the air valve letting air out slowly until the pump only just starts, don'r rush it, job done.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Tracy D'arth

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

To set the working air pressure, pump up the air to around 35 psi, turn on the water pump and open a tap. let it flow for a moment and then turn it off, The pump will run and stop itself.

Very slowly depress the air valve letting air out slowly until the pump only just starts, don'r rush it, job done.

That sounds an excellent way of setting the pressure I've not seen described before.

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If water comes out of the air valve the accumulator is totally shot, the bladder inside has ruptued

 

To be completely clear, there should never be any water in the steel can. All the water is contained in the rubber bladder and the air between can and bladder controls the inflation of the bladder by the water pump. You will find contradictory information which is wrong.

 You need a new accumulator. 

To set the working air pressure, pump up the air to around 35 psi, turn on the water pump and open a tap. let it flow for a moment and then turn it off, The pump will run and stop itself.

Very slowly depress the air valve letting air out slowly until the pump only just starts, don'r rush it, job done.

Well, I learn something new every day. I always assumed there was water in the vessel beneath the bladder, and air above. 

[system 4-50]

When replacing the tank be sure to get a potable water one.

[carp-addict]

Thank you everyone 

 

It looks like a new tank is required

[magnetman]

45 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Well, I learn something new every day. I always assumed there was water in the vessel beneath the bladder, and air above. 

 

 

It does make me ask what the difference is between potable and non potable. Presumably it is the material used for the bladder. 

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

It does make me ask what the difference is between potable and non potable. Presumably it is the material used for the bladder. 

I spose it depends if its a diaphragm or bladder type. I assumed they were a diaphragm type, but perhaps not. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by rusty69

[magnetman]

I thought there was an expanding air bag inside. Never cut one open to check ! Will do next time I see one thrown away. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I thought there was an expanding air bag inside. Never cut one open to check ! Will do next time I see one thrown away. 

Pity they are sealed. They could be made with a replaceable bladder if the two halves of the vessel screwed together. All the ones I have seen are either plastic or welded steel or stainless steel. 

[magnetman]

The Jabsco version at Midland Swindlers is this type: 

 

Description

Description

Enamelled steel with stainless steel flange and internal rubber membrane. Can be mounted in any attitude.

 

 

 

-------------------------

 

 

 

The enamelling is on the outside so I am unsure as to why this would be important. The question is does it have a bladder in it? 

 

Intriguing. 

 

 

This appears to be a critical detail regarding whether or not an item would be suitable for drinking water. 

 

 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The Jabsco version at Midland Swindlers is this type: 

 

Description

Description

Enamelled steel with stainless steel flange and internal rubber membrane. Can be mounted in any attitude.

 

 

 

-------------------------

 

 

 

The enamelling is on the outside so I am unsure as to why this would be important. The question is does it have a bladder in it? 

 

Intriguing. 

 

 

This appears to be a critical detail regarding whether or not an item would be suitable for drinking water. 

 

 

Maybe the op can cut their one in half. 

[magnetman]

I'm wondering if the eBay one for £30 is actually exactly the same thing as the Jabsco but a quarter of the price. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153243869196

 

I think confusion probably arises because when one pumps up the pressure one is using a car type tyre valve. This puts into your brain the idea that you are inflating something like an innertube when in fact this is not what is happening. 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm wondering if the eBay one for £30 is actually exactly the same thing as the Jabsco but a quarter of the price. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153243869196

 

I think confusion probably arises because when one pumps up the pressure one is using a car type tyre valve. This puts into your brain the idea that you are inflating something like an innertube when in fact this is not what is happening. 

I'm wondering what the failure mode is? Maybe punctured by ice. I would think a thick rubber diaphragm is more robust than an inflatable bladder. 

[magnetman]

It never even occurred to me the water might be in a bladder until Tracy d'arth mentioned it further up the thread. 

 

Rubber does perish over time but not sure if this would happen in a sealed container. 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The enamelling is on the outside so I am unsure as to why this would be important. The question is does it have a bladder in it? 

 

I wonder if it would be a fair assumption, that being sold as a "membrane" type it would be unlikely to have a 'bladder'.

 

"Enamelled steel with stainless steel flange and internal rubber membrane". 

[magnetman]

I wondered about that. A membrane is not a container. 

Rubber & Accumulator Bladders

The purpose of a accumulator membrane is to give a flexible rubber lining to an accumulator vessel. These bladders are manufactured to customer specification....

 

https://www.findtheneedle.co.uk/companies/indico-rubber-co-ltd/products/rubber-andaccumulator-bladders

Edited January 21, 2023 by magnetman

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, magnetman said:

I wondered about that. A membrane is not a container. 

 

 

I'd presume that membrane = diaphram both do the same job Membrane is the correct nomenclature.

 

The term Diaphram is usually used when talking about anatomy - example :  "a sheet of muscle separating the thorax from the abdomen, contracted and relaxed in respiration to draw air into and expel air from the lungs; also called thoracic diaphragm".

 

Maybe the author of the illustration was a bilologist ?

 

[magnetman]

What is a bilologist?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, magnetman said:

What is a bilologist?

 

Dictionary definition :

 

 

bilolo·gist

[bʌɪˈɒlədʒɪst]

 

NOUN

1. an expert in, or student of, the branch of science concerning bilols:

[magnetman]

 

 

There is an option to ask questions on the midland Swindlers site. I wonder if the question "Excuse me sir/madam, could you please tell me whether the water inside this is in a rubber bladder or contained within the metal shell." would be met with a knowledgeable response. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

 

There is an option to ask questions on the midland Swindlers site. I wonder if the question "Excuse me sir/madam, could you please tell me whether the water inside this is in a rubber bladder or contained within the metal shell." would be met with a knowledgeable response. 

Tracy is knowledgeable, and has already stated what the answer is.