How critical is engine oil type?

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

How about this one Halfords Classic Oil 20W50 5L | Halfords UK

 

Thanks Brian, and yes tbh I'm sure that would do the job fine. I don't think the canaline 38 counts as a classic sort of engine - it is actually badged Kioti, and they are apparently made in Guandong China. 

As an engine dunce, I'm going by the Canaline manual specs, which I think tell you to use 10w-40, and the mobil 1000 matches that spec, so it seems the safe bet. 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Brian, and yes tbh I'm sure that would do the job fine. I don't think the canaline 38 counts as a classic sort of engine - it is actually badged Kioti, and they are apparently made in Guandong China. 

As an engine dunce, I'm going by the Canaline manual specs, which I think tell you to use 10w-40, and the mobil 1000 matches that spec, so it seems the safe bet. 

 

If thats the one in your first link its fully synthetic 

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Regarding the PRM 120 gearbox oil question, I contacted PRM technical dept several years ago and was told "put in whatever you use in the engine" (mineral oil),  so that is what I have always done. I'm probably tempting fate  by saying this, but it is approaching 5000 hours without any issues. 

 

To be honest, seeing that, my inclination would be to put in whatever is likely to do the best job and provide longer life- but I've bought the ATF now, so for this service thats going in.

  

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

If thats the one in your first link its fully synthetic 

 

 

Oh FFS, what are they playing at?

When you use their search function and avoid the semi and fully synthetic options, and instead select 'mineral oil', you see very few left, including that one and the classic oil.

I wonder if there's a mistake on the web page listing for this oil...

 

The same oil in a 1 litre bottle is listed as mineral oil:

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/engine-oil/mobil-super-1000-x1-15w%2F40-oil-1l-929703.html?_gl=1*aq7yb0*_up*MQ..*_ga*OTY0NzM1MzEzLjE2NzI1MTM5Njc.*_ga_VK44BRER97*MTY3MjUxMzk2Ny4xLjEuMTY3MjUxMzk2OC4wLjAuMA..

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

To be honest, seeing that, my inclination would be to put in whatever is likely to do the best job and provide longer life- but I've bought the ATF now, so for this service thats going in.

  

 

 

If you look at the screenshot of the PRM manual (I posted) you will see that the PRM120 should use 10/30 or 15/40 Engine oil.

[Tony1]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If you look at the screenshot of the PRM manual (I posted) you will see that the PRM120 should use 10/30 or 15/40 Engine oil.

 

In fairness the canaline manual hedges its bets by saying 'check the PRM manual' and then 'always use ATF'.

It looks as if the canaline manual is out of date in insisting that you use ATF. 

But ATF will work ok, and I've got it now- so for this service, that's what will be going in. 

Next year I'll switch to engine oil.  

 

[Slim]

4 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

 

Thank you and that kind offer is very much appreciated, but at the moment it is situated in rural Wales near St Martins! 

Still, the megalopolis that is Oswestry shall be my salvation, with its Halfords branch. 

I can get within 4 or 5 miles of it by mooring near that disused pub at Hindford. 

 

 

If I were in rural Wales ( is that like Darkest Puru ?) and I were searching for a bog basic mineral oil I'd search out an agricultural supplier. 

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, Slim said:

If I were in rural Wales ( is that like Darkest Puru ?) and I were searching for a bog basic mineral oil I'd search out an agricultural supplier. 

But he is still in England

[Tony1]

3 minutes ago, Tonka said:

But he is still in England

 

Of course, how silly of me- I talked about Wales because I'm on my way back from Llangollen, and I didn't remember that when I passed Chirk I crossed back into rural England. 

Also, there are quite a few accents to be heard locally that  have more than a hint of Welsh in them. 

Agricultural suppliers are probably a decent bet, but I cant see any within 5 miles of St Martins, and in any case I quite fancy a trip into Oswestry, so I'll stick with Halfords at £34 for 5 litres.  

 

[ditchcrawler]

18 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Of course, how silly of me- I talked about Wales because I'm on my way back from Llangollen, and I didn't remember that when I passed Chirk I crossed back into rural England. 

Also, there are quite a few accents to be heard locally that  have more than a hint of Welsh in them. 

Agricultural suppliers are probably a decent bet, but I cant see any within 5 miles of St Martins, and in any case I quite fancy a trip into Oswestry, so I'll stick with Halfords at £34 for 5 litres.  

 

Wilco sell this oil Wilko 20W50 Classic Car Oil 4L | Wilko

 

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Wilco sell this oil Wilko 20W50 Classic Car Oil 4L | Wilko

 

 

Thanks Brian, that's only £35 for the full 8 litres, effectively half the price of the mobil 1000 mineral oil in halfords. And there's a wilko in Oswestry, so I can do the trip on Monday. Which out of pure coincidence is also when M+S food hall is open again.

 

But just to make sure- Canaline recommend 15w-40, and this is 20w-50. Could that fairly small difference possibly represent any kind of issue?

 

 

 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Tony1 said:

Oh FFS, what are they playing at?

When you use their search function and avoid the semi and fully synthetic options, and instead select 'mineral oil', you see very few left, including that one and the classic oil.

I wonder if there's a mistake on the web page listing for this oil...

 

I think it's highly likely given the first synthetic motor oil on the market was called "Mobil One". It would be an odd thing to have an oil 40 years later called "Mobil 1000" and it not be fully synthetic.

 

I've an idea Mobil One was launched specifically for the Ford Sierra Cosworth car, and all owners had to buy it. ISTR it being £50 for 4.5 litres even back then! 

 

 

[Tony1]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think it's highly likely given the first synthetic motor oil on the market was called "Mobil One". It would be an odd thing to have an oil 40 years later called "Mobil 1000" and it not be fully synthetic.

 

I've an idea Mobil One was launched specifically for the Ford Sierra Cosworth car, and all owners had to buy it. ISTR it being £50 for 4.5 litres even back then! 

 

 

 

Well, it's identified using the 'mineral oil' option, and the smaller size bottle of mobil 1000 is listed as mineral oil, so my bet is that it is that it is mineral oil, but it might be irrelevant.

If Wilko are selling 20-50 mineral oil for almost half the price, it looks like a no brainer...

I'm planning on doing a sort of intermediate oil change half way through 2023 (rather than wait the full 10 months or so until its officially due), just as an extra measure to help out the engine a bit, and hopefully prolong its life a bit. 

And if this oil is suitable for a canaline 38, I might get another 8 litres and save it for the late summer oil change. 

 

ETA- just checked and the Oswestry Wilko store is out of stock, so its not an option for this service.

Ellesmere Port still has a couple left, so my brother might be able to grab a brace of them for my next oil change. 

 

Seems to me if anyone has a service coming up soon, this wilko oil looks like a very affordable option, but it is running out....

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Tony1

[Tony1]

 

Just to revive this discussion a tad, could I canvass opinion on this oil?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0052X4I30/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1 

 

If you cant get to a Halfords (or other place selling mineral oil), this could be a decent option for a liveaboard CCer, as it can be sent to an Amazon locker. 

I've no idea if this product is complete garbage, or decent- Amazon can be a very mixed bag as we know. 

 

PS- out of interest, do beta engines insist on mineral oil, or is it only us canaline users that have to look for it?  

 

 

 

[magnetman]

Amazon is the porn of the devil so any oil from there will knock out the big ends in no time. 

Bloody fireworks. 

[ditchcrawler]

34 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

I'm planning on doing a sort of intermediate oil change half way through 2023 (rather than wait the full 10 months or so until its officially due), just as an extra measure to help out the engine a bit, and hopefully prolong its life a bit. 

 

 

How often does your engine require an oil change then?

[Eeyore]

4 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

In fairness the canaline manual hedges its bets by saying 'check the PRM manual' and then 'always use ATF'.

It looks as if the canaline manual is out of date in insisting that you use ATF. 

But ATF will work ok, and I've got it now- so for this service, that's what will be going in. 

Next year I'll switch to engine oil.  

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that https://www.prm-newage.com/help-centre-marine  

The change from engine oil to atf was related to the time it takes for the oil to be 'squeezed out" from between the cone clutches during engagement. In some circumstances engine oil delayed the engagement of the clutch resulting in slipping and rapid wear of the linings.

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Eeyore

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I think it's highly likely given the first synthetic motor oil on the market was called "Mobil One". It would be an odd thing to have an oil 40 years later called "Mobil 1000" and it not be fully synthetic.

 

I've an idea Mobil One was launched specifically for the Ford Sierra Cosworth car, and all owners had to buy it. ISTR it being £50 for 4.5 litres even back then! 

 

 

Put some Mobil one in a BMC 1.5 many years ago. Sounded awful. Had to get it out and put Delvac in to quieten it down

[MtB]

23 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Amazon is the porn of the devil so any oil from there will knock out the big ends in no time. 

Bloody fireworks. 

 

 

Twaddle.

 

Comma is a well established brand selling into the independent car accessory retail market for at least 40 years to my personal knowledge. I've used Comma brand oils in my engines over the decades with no ill effects and if it "knocked out big ends in no time" word would quickly get around. 

 

You do seem to have a reputation on here for condemning and railing against large companies e.g. Tesla, Amazon, Apple etc for reasons that are not immediately clear! Ideological, I suspect. 

[Tony1]

23 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How often does your engine require an oil change then?

 

The original manual said 200 hours, but the July 2022 version says 250 hours. 

I was stuck in a marina for the first 4 months of 2021, and in the first half of 2022 I hung about a lot around Chester and ellesmere Port for family reasons, so with only moving once a week, and having 1.4kw of solar, I wasn't needing to run the engine that often. In fact I almost never ran it for battery charging between March and end of Sept.

So at the current rate, my 200 hours service intervals are taking almost a year to complete- so I'm going to throw in an extra oil change in 2023 just to maybe help the engine a bit, since it seems to go so long between services.

 

  

Edited January 1, 2023 by Tony1

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

The original manual said 200 hours, but the July 2022 version says 250 hours. 

 

It's a curious thing. My van requires an oil change ever 20,000 miles, or every 670 hours assuming an average speed of 30mph.

 

 

[magnetman]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

It's a curious thing. My van requires an oil change ever 20,000 miles, or every 670 hours assuming an average speed of 30mph.

 

 

Maybe boat engines are generally less active than vehicle engines so more regular oil changes help look after the problem of the engine never being run at all. Marina boats innit. 

 

Christ that doesn't read well does it ! 

 

But anyway less use should really mean more regular oil changes for obvious reasons. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by magnetman

[Tony1]

Just now, MtB said:

 

It's a curious thing. My van requires an oil change ever 20,000 miles, or every 670 hours assuming an average speed of 30mph.

 

 

 

In my last lease car, because I did 70% of my mileage driving on motorways, I always reckoned my average speed to be maybe 40 to 50mph.  

If it was 45mph, a service every 20k miles would I think mean every 450 hours, which is still about twice as long an interval as a Kioti diesel at 200 or 250 hours- which spends most of its life running at around 1500 rpm and is generally under less stress than a more modern and more sophisticated diesel car engine. 

I'm tempted to make a rather disparaging remark about Kioti diesels, but my engine might overhear me. 

 

 

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, rgreg said:

Regarding the PRM 120 gearbox oil question, I contacted PRM technical dept several years ago and was told "put in whatever you use in the engine" (mineral oil),  so that is what I have always done. I'm probably tempting fate  by saying this, but it is approaching 5000 hours without any issues. 

I contacted the manufacturer's of the gearbox two years ago and they told me Dextron two.

I don't know why it's imperative to keep fluid level to max indicated, must be some valid reason ?

Edited January 1, 2023 by LadyG

[john.k]

If you use engine oil in a gearbox with wet clutches ,be sure the oil isnt "friction modified".......whatever the "modifier " is,it makes wet clutches slip like they arent engaged,......so its a lot safer to use either ATF or a R&O hydraulic oil.