How critical is engine oil type?

[Tony1]

 

I'm hoping one or two of the experts might be able to help with my latest balls-up.

My canaline 38 needs about 8 litres of oil for an oil change, which I would like to do soon.

I've bought 5 litres of 'Rockoil MP Lite' multigrade marine oil, and another 5L of 'Rockoil Strata' semi synthetic oil.

And very stupidly, I've only just noticed that the canaline user manual has a statement that you must not use synthetic or semi synthetic oil.

So I need to get hold of another 3L of the non-synthetic multigrade/marine stuff, but I'm near St Martins and dont have a car, and there are a number of rail strikes next week.

 

Would small local petrol stations be likely to stock non-synthetic oil?

My only other source at the moment is Halfords in Oswestry, which is within cycling range.

They have loads of synthetic and part synthetic oils, but I can only see one type that is totally non synthetic, which is their super multigrade:

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/engine-oil/mobil-super-1000-x1-15w%2F40-oil-5l-929711.html?_gl=1*1i3rgdi*_up*MQ..*_ga*NjgxMjU1MDY3LjE2NzI1MDMxODM.*_ga_VK44BRER97*MTY3MjUwMzE4Ny4xLjEuMTY3MjUwMzE4OS4wLjAuMA.. 

 

Can any of the experts confirm- is that a suitable oil?

Also, I already have 5L of suitable marine oil, so ideally I only need another 3L - is is ok to mix the Rockoil and the Mobil oils in one oil change? 

Or are Canaline being overly conservative, and do narrowboat mechanics use semi synthetic oil anyway, and could I just bung in 3L of the semi synthetic along with the marine oil? 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Tony1

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm hoping one or two of the experts might be able to help with my latest balls-up.

My canaline 38 needs about 8 litres of oil for an oil change, which I would like to do soon.

I've bought 5 litres of 'Rockoil MP Lite' multigrade marine oil, and another 5L of 'Rockoil Strata' semi synthetic oil.

And very stupidly, I've only just noticed that the canaline user manual has a statement that you must not use synthetic or semi synthetic oil.

So I need to get hold of another 3L of the non-synthetic multigrade/marine stuff, but I'm near St Martins and dont have a car, and there are a number of rail strikes next week.

 

Would small local petrol stations be likely to stock non-synthetic oil?

My only other source at the moment is Halfords in Oswestry, which is within cycling range.

They have loads of synthetic and part synthetic oils, but I can only see one type that is totally non synthetic, which is their super multigrade:

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/engine-oil/mobil-super-1000-x1-15w%2F40-oil-5l-929711.html?_gl=1*1i3rgdi*_up*MQ..*_ga*NjgxMjU1MDY3LjE2NzI1MDMxODM.*_ga_VK44BRER97*MTY3MjUwMzE4Ny4xLjEuMTY3MjUwMzE4OS4wLjAuMA.. 

 

Can any of the experts confirm- is that a suitable oil?

Also, I already have 5L of suitable marine oil, so ideally I only need another 3L - is is ok to mix the Rockoil and the Mobil oils in one oil change? 

Or are Canaline being overly conservative, and do narrowboat mechanics use semi synthetic oil anyway, and could I just bung in 3L of the semi synthetic along with the marine oil? 

 

 

 

I am certainly no expert but one like @Tony Brooks will be along shortly.

 

But I have never mixed oil types or deviated from the manufacturer recommended oils in all the years of car ownership and 5 years of boat ownership.

 

As a result Ive never had an issue with any sort of major engine failure.

 

 

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, M_JG said:

 

I am certainly no expert but one like @Tony Brooks will be along shortly.

 

But I have never mixed oil types or deviated from the manufacturer recommended oils in all the years of car ownership and 5 years of boat ownership.

 

As a result Ive never had an issue with any sort of major engine failure.

 

 

 

That's kind of my expectation tbh, but you occasionally hear of situations where even the pros routinely disregard a manufacturer instruction, so I thought it was worth checking. 

 

I dont want to delay until I can get hold of more marine oil, so my hope is that I can use the 5L I already have, plus an added 3L of mobil multigrade oil, since they are both non synthetic. 

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

I really don't know how important it is, but note that several of the oil blenders stress not to mix oils from different supplies.  My guess is that it is no big deal, but I'm happy to be educated if that is a wrong assumption.

 

If an engine says don't use synthetic or semi synthetic I would take that seriously, though.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by alan_fincher
TYpos

[Tony Brooks]

The oil in the link shows it is API CF and as such I would have happily have used it in my boat engine.

 

The Rockoil Strata is API CG-4 so 1.5 API specs higher. It also talks about Finest base stocks and synthetic additives. I bet the other Rockoil and the Halfords also contain synthetic additives to meet both the API and SAE viscosity specification.  In my view the "semi-synthetic" is just marketing blurb.

 

Whilst I can't state the later two oils are safe for you to use, I happily state that I would use either in my own boat engine as long as it was well run in.

 

Edited to add, I would never worry about mixing oils from different reputable blenders (manufacturers if you will) of similar SAE and API specs. in my own engine.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

That's kind of my expectation tbh, but you occasionally hear of situations where even the pros routinely disregard a manufacturer instruction, so I thought it was worth checking. 

 

I dont want to delay until I can get hold of more marine oil, so my hope is that I can use the 5L I already have, plus an added 3L of mobil multigrade oil, since they are both non synthetic. 

 

 

 

 

I'd rather delay the oil change for a few days that mix oils (of which one is noted as 'should not use')

 

Yes - I fnd that local garages do have mineral oil (non-synthetic, in usually,  500ml  bottles)

[MtB]

My dear old departed Dad who was a Chartered mechanical engineer, used to say absolutely any oil is a MILLION times better than no oil, and not to stress too much about it if topping up. 

 

But then he did retire about 20 years before synthetic oil hit the mass market. 

[alan_fincher]

From past experience about the only Halfords oil suitable for older boat diesels is this one.

 

It is a 20W/50  with an API-CC spec, so is very suitable in engines with that requirement.  I'm not familiar with yours, but I suspect there could be a mismatch.

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/engine-oil/halfords-classic-oil-20w50-5l-537977.html

[Tony1]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

The oil in the link shows it is API CF and as such I would have happily have used it in my boat engine.

 

The Rockoil Strata is API CG-4 so 1.5 API specs higher. It also talks about Finest base stocks and synthetic additives. I bet the other Rockoil and the Halfords also contain synthetic additives to meet both the API and SAE viscosity specification.  In my view the "semi-synthetic" is just marketing blurb.

 

Whilst I can't state the later two oils are safe for you to use, I happily state that I would use either in my own boat engine as long as it was well run in.

 

Thanks Tony. I'll set aside the semi synthetic Rockoil. 

 

I could also hang on to the Rockoil marine oil until the next service (by which time I'll get another5L of it).

For this service I'll maybe just buy 10L of the Halfords stuff, to avoid any mixing at all. 

 

Can I trouble you with another question- I bought 2L of 'Carlube ATF-U' for my PRM125 gearbox, but again I've just noticed that the manual says I should use 'ATF Dexron II'. 

Is it likely to be critical that I use the Dexron stuff? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Tony. I'll set aside the semi synthetic Rockoil. 

 

I could also hang on to the Rockoil marine oil until the next service (by which time I'll get another5L of it).

For this service I'll maybe just buy 10L of the Halfords stuff, to avoid any mixing at all. 

 

Can I trouble you with another question- I bought 2L of 'Carlube ATF-U' for my PRM125 gearbox, but again I've just noticed that the manual says I should use 'ATF Dexron II'. 

Is it likely to be critical that I use the Dexron stuff? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought PRM had amended their gearbox manuals to say use the same as the oil in the engine ?

 

Just looked and my manual does ............................

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony1]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

My dear old departed Dad who was a Chartered mechanical engineer, used to say absolutely any oil is a MILLION times better than no oil, and not to stress too much about it if topping up. 

 

But then he did retire about 20 years before synthetic oil hit the mass market. 

 

Thanks Mike, my inclination was to mix the Rockoil and the Mobil super1000 as they are both non-synthetic. Its a bugger at times trying to get hold of stuff like oil when you're CCing and your postal address is half a days' travel away. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I thought PRM had amended their gearbox manuals to say use the same as the oil in the engine ?

yes,

providing you use the correct one in the engine 👍

[Tony1]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I thought PRM had amended their gearbox manuals to say use the same as the oil in the engine ?

 

Thanks Alan, and yes, I too have heard that, I think in conversation.

But according to the July 22 version of the canaline user manual, it should be ATF to a Dexron II spec.

 

http://www.canaline-engines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Canaline-Operators-Handbook-CE-Version-3870T-July-2022.pdf

 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks Mike, my inclination was to mix the Rockoil and the Mobil super1000 as they are both non-synthetic. Its a bugger at times trying to get hold of stuff like oil when you're CCing and your postal address is half a days' travel away. 

 

 

Well if Wokeville is anywhere near Banbury or Newbury, you could get stuff delivered to me and I can track you down and drop it off to you in the van.

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I thought PRM had amended their gearbox manuals to say use the same as the oil in the engine ?

 

NO, the 125 is (I think) a mechanical box, and PRM did alter the recommendation for their mechanical boxes from engine oil to ATF.

 

To answer Tony, question, I don't know, I have never heard of ATF-U, but I suspect it is a higher spec than Dexron 1,2, or 3 so probably fine. A boat gearbox is far less demanding oil wise than a vehicle auto box. The only thing I am not sure about is if it has added anti-friction additives, but if it has I would expect it to mess with the auto box clutches as readily as with the PRM box clutches. Very happy to be corrected on that.

[Tony1]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Well if Wokeville is anywhere near Banbury or Newbury, you could get stuff delivered to me and I can track you down and drop it off to you in the van.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you and that kind offer is very much appreciated, but at the moment it is situated in rural Wales near St Martins! 

Still, the megalopolis that is Oswestry shall be my salvation, with its Halfords branch. 

I can get within 4 or 5 miles of it by mooring near that disused pub at Hindford. 

 

 

[booke23]

21 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

Can I trouble you with another question- I bought 2L of 'Carlube ATF-U' for my PRM125 gearbox, but again I've just noticed that the manual says I should use 'ATF Dexron II'. 

Is it likely to be critical that I use the Dexron stuff? 

 

As Tony says the PRM 125 is a mechanical box, so you MUST use ATF Dextron (it can be II, III or IV). It is fairly critical in these boxes otherwise clutch slippage is a problem. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by booke23

[Tony Brooks]

 

Just found this:

 

Carlube Driveline ATF-U. Fully Synthetic - Automatic Transmission Fluid. Specifications. Dexron II/IIIH, JASO 1-A, JATCO, JWS 3309, Allison TES 295, ...

 

So it is compatible with Dexron 2 & 3

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

NO, the 125 is (I think) a mechanical box, and PRM did alter the recommendation for their mechanical boxes from engine oil to ATF.

 

To answer Tony, question, I don't know, I have never heard of ATF-U, but I suspect it is a higher spec than Dexron 1,2, or 3 so probably fine. A boat gearbox is far less demanding oil wise than a vehicle auto box. The only thing I am not sure about is if it has added anti-friction additives, but if it has I would expect it to mess with the auto box clutches as readily as with the PRM box clutches. Very happy to be corrected on that.

 

Thanks again Tony. A quick (but as usual, belated) look at the rear label on the ATF shows that 'Dexron II' and 'Dexron IIIH' are listed on its list of specifications, so I'll use it on that basis. 

 

 

[Tony1]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'd rather delay the oil change for a few days that mix oils (of which one is noted as 'should not use')

 

Yes - I fnd that local garages do have mineral oil (non-synthetic, in usually,  500ml  bottles)

 

Thanks, that is handy to know. For price reasons I'll get 2x5L from Halfords, but its good to know I can always get a top up if needed from a local garage. 

 

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Just found this:

 

Carlube Driveline ATF-U. Fully Synthetic - Automatic Transmission Fluid. Specifications. Dexron II/IIIH, JASO 1-A, JATCO, JWS 3309, Allison TES 295, ...

 

So it is compatible with Dexron 2 & 3

 

Thanks a lot Tony, with things like oils it is good to know for sure if its compatible. 

 

[Tony1]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I thought PRM had amended their gearbox manuals to say use the same as the oil in the engine ?

 

Just looked and my manual does ............................

 

 

 

Apologies, I think mine might actually be a PRM120, I'll have a look in the morning. 

 

But this screenshot is from the canaline manual:

It seems they are out of step with PRM on this?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Tony1

[booke23]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Apologies, I think mine might actually be a PRM120, I'll have a look in the morning. 

 

But this screenshot is from the manual:

They seem quite certain about using ATF?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes still mechanical. Only the PRM 150 and above are hydraulic. 

 

I have a PRM 90 and find it is quite good at slipping clutches even with the correct oil!!

[Tony1]

 

I think the jury has reached a verdict. The generic ATF (dexron II spec) is ok to use, but not the semi synthetic engine oil. 

 

Rather than mix anything with the Rockoil, I'll save that for next time, and instead I'll get 10L of Mobil 1000 multigrade, which looks almost nice enough to pour over my dinner. 

 

Halfords is even open tomorrow, so time to get the bike out.  

 

Thanks guys for your prompt and very helpful advice and info. 

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm hoping one or two of the experts might be able to help with my latest balls-up.

My canaline 38 needs a bout 8 litres of oil for an oil change, which I would like to do soon.

I've bought 5 litres of 'Rockoil MP Lite' multigrade marine oil, and another 5L of 'Rockoil Strata' semi synthetic oil.

And very stupidly, I've only just noticed that the canaline user manual has a statement that you must not use synthetic or semi synthetic oil.

So I need to get hold of another 3L of the non-synthetic multigrade/marine stuff, but I'm near St Martins and dont have a car, and there are a number of rail strikes next week.

 

Would small local petrol stations be likely to stock non-synthetic oil?

My only other source at the moment is Halfords in Oswestry, which is within cycling range.

They have loads of synthetic and part synthetic oils, but I can only see one type that is totally non synthetic, which is their super multigrade:

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/engine-oil/mobil-super-1000-x1-15w%2F40-oil-5l-929711.html?_gl=1*1i3rgdi*_up*MQ..*_ga*NjgxMjU1MDY3LjE2NzI1MDMxODM.*_ga_VK44BRER97*MTY3MjUwMzE4Ny4xLjEuMTY3MjUwMzE4OS4wLjAuMA.. 

 

Can any of the experts confirm- is that a suitable oil?

Also, I already have 5L of suitable marine oil, so ideally I only need another 3L - is is ok to mix the Rockoil and the Mobil oils in one oil change? 

Or are Canaline being overly conservative, and do narrowboat mechanics use semi synthetic oil anyway, and could I just bung in 3L of the semi synthetic along with the marine oil? 

 

 

How about this one Halfords Classic Oil 20W50 5L | Halfords UK

[rgreg]

Regarding the PRM 120 gearbox oil question, I contacted PRM technical dept several years ago and was told "put in whatever you use in the engine" (mineral oil),  so that is what I have always done. I'm probably tempting fate  by saying this, but it is approaching 5000 hours without any issues.