Scuzpot Posted August 15, 2022 Report Share Posted August 15, 2022 Hi All i have a Paloma water heater. Can I make a cupboard around it if vented ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Scuzpot said: Hi All i have a Paloma water heater. Can I make a cupboard around it if vented ? Simple answer: No. Absolutely not. Second level answer: Well you can, but expect to fail your next BSS and any gas technician to refuse to work on it and attempt disconnection. If you're still alive. Most accurate but probably least helpful answer: Only if the Manual that came with it says it is ok for "compartment installation", and you comply with the compartment clearances and ventilation requirements that will be specified. But I doubt you'll have a copy of the manual and I very much doubt it would permit compartment installation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 This being a discussion forum, you usually get a mixture of opinions and a good argument going. In this case, I suspect you won't and MtB's definitive answer will remain unchallenged! It would be about as sensible as piping your engine's exhaust directly into the cabin to keep you warm in winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Brummie Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Why would you want to box it in? Another cupboard on the cabin side would make a limited space claustrophobic. Edited August 16, 2022 by Ex Brummie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said: This being a discussion forum, you usually get a mixture of opinions and a good argument going. In this case, I suspect you won't and MtB's definitive answer will remain unchallenged! It would be about as sensible as piping your engine's exhaust directly into the cabin to keep you warm in winter. To expand on my faintly grumpy post, should the OP or anyone else here actually have a copy of the Paloma manual, could they perhaps have a look in it and post what it actually says on the subject of compartment installation please? This would be helpful to the op and to anyone else considering boxing one in. I suspect the manual may not even mention it except perhaps in passing, especially as the Paloma was designed and sold as a "flueless" appliance discharging into the cabin, and adding a flue kit was an optional extra back in those days. Nowadays a flueless water heater is permissible only if under a certain power input (8kW springs to mind) and installed in a minimum room volume (10 cubic metres springs to mind without looking it up, but it might be 20 cubic metres) and NOT in a room containing a shower. So perhaps it could be argued the OP could install theirs in a cupboard provided the cupboard has a volume of at least 10 (or perhaps 20) Cubic metres.... Edited August 16, 2022 by MtB Add a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Screenshot for the pH 5 3f. Dunno if I can upload a PDF, but pretty sure it's available on line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Is that "NO" specific to Paloma or applicable to all Instant water heaters ? We have a Static Caravan park and all vans have a 'boxed in' instantaneous water heater (usually a Morco) The vans have to go thru a regular check / service for gas and water heaters (this one was apart because of a smokey mark on the case) Is this allowed in caravans but not boats ? No idea why I cannot get them to save 'vertically' !!! 5 minutes ago, rusty69 said: Screenshot for the pH 5 3f. Dunno if I can upload a PDF, but pretty sure it's available on line. Interesting that it is prohibited to install it in a boat !! Edited August 16, 2022 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, rusty69 said: Screenshot for the pH 5 3f. Dunno if I can upload a PDF, but pretty sure it's available on line. I do like the prohibited installation (h). Not in a boat! Also (f) would also disqualify it. Who reads the manual anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: I do like the prohibited installation (h). Not in a boat! Also (f) would also disqualify it. Who reads the manual anyway. Are you some kind of muppet? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: I do like the prohibited installation (h). Not in a boat! Also (f) would also disqualify it. Who reads the manual anyway. I read it you muppet. After I installed it. Actually, it was already on the boat when we bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, rusty69 said: I read it you muppet. After I installed it. Actually, it was already on the boat when we bought it. The good old days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Who reads the manual anyway. Any qualified gas technician working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Is that "NO" specific to Paloma or applicable to all Instant water heaters ? We have a Static Caravan park and all vans have a 'boxed in' instantaneous water heater (usually a Morco) The vans have to go thru a regular check / service for gas and water heaters (this one was apart because of a smokey mark on the case) Is this allowed in caravans but not boats ? No idea why I cannot get them to save 'vertically' !!! Horrifying. The outer case is considered a safety component and running it like that is beyond irresponsible in my opinion as a gas bod, especially in a rental. Mainly due to the fire risk. What does the manual for the D61 say about clearances from combustible materials (with the case on!) and about compartment installation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MtB said: The outer case is considered a safety component and running it like that is beyond irresponsible in my opinion as a gas bod, especially in a rental. Mainly due to the fire risk. They are not rental vans, they are all 'owned' by customers who pay an annual ground rent - we have no messing about with cleaning and servicing, advertising, noisy kids etc etc. As I said - the outer case was removed for servicing due to a smokey mark on the 'spy-hole'. 47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: The vans have to go thru a regular check / service for gas and water heaters (this one was apart because of a smokey mark on the case) Edited August 16, 2022 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 45 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Are you some kind of muppet? The best kind. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: As I said - the outer case was removed for servicing due to a smokey mark on the 'spy-hole'. Ah, I took you to mean it had been permanently removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroudwater1 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Ours is in a cupboard, has been for 25 years. Its a large cupboard, I dont know about the square footage but its around 6 foot high going back 4 foot at the bottom and 2 foot at the top where the Paloma heater is. Its around 2 foot wide. There is a vent /chimney going through the roof. It has bikes and washing stuff in the cupboard too . There are two large decorative holes in the cupboard door for ventilation which arent ever covered. Never failed a BSS yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Dr Bob said: I do like the prohibited installation (h). Not in a boat! Also (f) would also disqualify it. Who reads the manual anyway. Hmmm. (g) is a bit iffy too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said: This being a discussion forum, you usually get a mixture of opinions and a good argument going. In this case, I suspect you won't and MtB's definitive answer will remain unchallenged! Apparently not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuzpot Posted August 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Thank you all . it has a new flue / chimney fitted and ample ventilation even if one side covered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 If you use a cupboard, take the top and bottom out completely. Batten the 2 sides back together so that the door still swings and the box shape is preserved. Maintain 2" clearance all around the heater case and flue. Mount it so that the whole cupboard lifts off hooks on the wall to completely expose the heater. Then I can see no objection as the "cover" is purely decorative and not attached to the "illegally installed" heater. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanA Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Is there a difference if the heater is flueless or has a flue as In the manual page from Rusty69 or Alan's morco ? I know they are still open to the room Just interested in understanding the issues to aid my learning and understanding. Edited August 16, 2022 by jonathanA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, jonathanA said: Is there a difference if the heater is flueless or has a flue as In the manual page from Rusty69 or Alan's morco ? I know they are still open to the room Just interested in understanding the issues to aid my learning and understanding. The ones fitted in Static caravans have the 'normal' flue thru the roof as per the fittings on a NB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 From the same paloma manual : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuzpot Posted August 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 On 16/08/2022 at 17:45, Tracy D'arth said: If you use a cupboard, take the top and bottom out completely. Batten the 2 sides back together so that the door still swings and the box shape is preserved. Maintain 2" clearance all around the heater case and flue. Mount it so that the whole cupboard lifts off hooks on the wall to completely expose the heater. Then I can see no objection as the "cover" is purely decorative and not attached to the "illegally installed" heater. Thank you , great advise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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