CRT training vlockies today, wrongly

[Arthur Marshall]

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

moorers perception of ideal speed = 0.7 x moving boat speed

Not at all. A somewhat patronising concept. I've been out for about four months this year, spending most of the day moored up, and I can't remember anyone going past me at an unreasonable speed. I have had the misfortune to follow boats who think they should move about a yard a minute past moorings so I've had to drop out of gear but it isn't really a problem, just an annoyance.

Some people are just neurotic and look for an excuse to show their superiority by yelling at people, probably the same ones who put "witty" slowdown signs in their windows. They are best treated with pity and ignored.

[Paul C]

Of course you're right, every moored boat and moored boater is different, and in my experience almost all have no issue whatsoever with passing boats. However its the exceptions which stick out and tend to be remembered, which is a shame. My last 2 boats both had a rather 'strong' idle, so that was the speed boats were passed at. On the few occasions I've been shouted at, I said back (its a quiet engine, you can have a conversation over it) "its in idle!!" and showed them, by operating the lever from neutral to drive with no change in engine tone. On some of these conversations, it developed into quite an interesting technical discussion on prop matching, gear ratios and engine specification. 

 

On others.....they had that middle rope tied tightly.

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Of course you're right, every moored boat and moored boater is different, and in my experience almost all have no issue whatsoever with passing boats. However its the exceptions which stick out and tend to be remembered, which is a shame. My last 2 boats both had a rather 'strong' idle, so that was the speed boats were passed at. On the few occasions I've been shouted at, I said back (its a quiet engine, you can have a conversation over it) "its in idle!!" and showed them, by operating the lever from neutral to drive with no change in engine tone. On some of these conversations, it developed into quite an interesting technical discussion on prop matching, gear ratios and engine specification. 

 

On others.....they had that middle rope tied tightly.

 

I suspect having loose mooring lines almost at right-angles to the bank and no spring lines is by far the biggest reason their boats get thrown about, going by the number I've seen moored like that -- and seen moving about lots even when I pass them slowly...

[cuthound]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I suspect having loose mooring lines almost at right-angles to the bank and no spring lines is by far the biggest reason their boats get thrown about, going by the number I've seen moored like that -- and seen moving about lots even when I pass them slowly...

 

Indeed, with lines at 90° to the bank, rather than being angled away or towards each other, the lines act as a hinge. This allows the boat to move backwards and forwards without opposition from the line at the other end of the boat.

[IanD]

Just now, cuthound said:

 

Indeed, with lines at 90° to the bank, rather than being angled away or towards each other, the lines act as a hinge. This allows the boat to move backwards and forwards without opposition from the line at the other end of the boat.

Correct, and even worse any force pulling the boat backwards and forwards is hugely magnified as tension in the ropes (1/sin(angle)) which then pulls the mooring spikes out...

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, Paul C said:

I am not sure its reassuring on not, that a lot of people do something "just because the navigation authority tell them to". And thank you, cuthound, for answering the questions as posed - I appreciate my post did come across a bit like a job interview. Its just that, with not being bothered about my online/internet status on this forum, I can pose those common questions which might be asked by those "on the other side". I think the others who have chosen to ask personal questions should question their own posting style (play the ball, not the player).

 

I am too young to remember the origin of the current trend to slow down past moored boats, I guess its an evolution from when boat ownership became popular, and the canals were used more and more for moorings rather than commercial travel. 1950s-1960s?

 

Its interesting that your bottom touches the canal, I understand a lot of EOG moorings are shallow - have you had a quote to spot dredge the area? Or looked into it?

I’d be happy for there to be no rules as I pass about 100 moored boats for every boat that passes me when I’m moored.

 

However the amicable co-existence of a large group of strangers in a confined space requires someone to set some rules that are broadly consensual and for members of that group to adhere to them. It’s anti-social not to.
 

I was though in the main responding to the notion that you can choose which boats to slow down for and which not.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

So it is just a few ignorant people who pass to fast.

Most go slow enough to give you chance to get out your arm chair and give us a wave 👋 and have a quick natter. 

 

And you’re by a bridge hole so you’d think most would slow for that. 

[Arthur Marshall]

5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Most go slow enough to give you chance to get out your arm chair and give us a wave 👋 and have a quick natter. 

 

And you’re by a bridge hole so you’d think most would slow for that. 

You have to speed up for bridge holes, so you can get there before the other bloke does...

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

You have to speed up for bridge holes, so you can get there before the other bloke does...

That’s the best game ever. 
Shall I speed up, it’s my bridge hole,

or shall I slow it’s there’s. 
 

Just now, Goliath said:

That’s the best game ever. 
Shall I speed up, it’s my bridge hole,

or shall I slow it’s there’s. 
 

Because that really is annoying some one slowing for their bridge hole. 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

That’s the best game ever. 
Shall I speed up, it’s my bridge hole,

or shall I slow it’s there’s. 
 

 

 

What often happens is you both slow down more and more, expecting the other boat to get there first. 

 

So nowadays I hold my speed until the last possible moment and as one gets closer, it becomes obvious who will get there first. Nearly always me!

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

What often happens is you both slow down more and more, expecting the other boat to get there first. 

 

So nowadays I hold my speed until the last possible moment and as one gets closer, it becomes obvious who will get there first. Nearly always me!

Yea me too. 

Just keep going. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

31 minutes ago, IanD said:

Correct, and even worse any force pulling the boat backwards and forwards is hugely magnified as tension in the ropes (1/sin(angle)) which then pulls the mooring spikes out...

What thickness ropes/lines would you advise?

 

 

 I’m currently using 3 ply wool. 
And wondering if I’m over doing it a bit. 

 

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yea me too. 

Just keep going. 

 

 

Yes I don't treat it as a race or a willy waving competition, just a technique to avoid that effect where both of you keep slowing down then still get there together. SUCH a waste of time, doing that.

 

[Paul C]

32 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I was though in the main responding to the notion that you can choose which boats to slow down for and which not.

 

You can't, because you can't positively identify which boats are occupied or not. If it were true that an unoccupied boat is sufficiently well moored to not suffer any ill effect from a passing boat; and it could be clearly identified as such; then maybe you could differentiate them (and not slow). But cuthound raises an interesting point about his bottom scraping.

[nicknorman]

6 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I'm still a bit confused about how the boater letting you come down at that point would actually get you out of the bottom any quicker (or the intermediate mooring spot). Can you explain a bit more clearly?

I think you confusion arises from not understanding the question. The question did not mention speed, it mentioned etiquette. Etiquette is not usually related to speed, in fact it is often quite the opposite. Etiquette is to do with how humans of a certain “tribe” interact with each other without causing offence or disapproval.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

Yes I don't treat it as a race or a willy waving competition, just a technique to avoid that effect where both of you keep slowing down then still get there together. SUCH a waste of time, doing that.

 

It is tricky 

And I think that’s the only answer,

Keep going. 

And my eye sight at the age of 37 is getting bad but I bank on the other steerer being in their 80’s and having worse eyesight than mine and bottling it. 
 

 

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

But cuthound raises an interesting point about his bottom scraping.

Next time, I’ll slow down long enough to pass him some cream for that. 

[Paul C]

Its pretty easy, and logical:

 

At some point, at any given speed, you pass a "commit" point at which you can no longer neatly stop, let the other boat through, then resume in a straight-ish direction. You need to judge who is closer before that commit point; or modify it by slowing in advance so its closer and easier to judge.

[nicknorman]

3 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

I have always assumed that the undewater profile of a boat can effect the amount of disturbance it cause when passing other boats. Helvetia, although deep draughted had very long graceful swims, and caused almost no wash at normal speeds. I always slowed when passing moored craft and rarely got shouted at.

I wouldn’t have though so, or not much anyway. Regardless of the shape of the hull, a certain mass of water equivalent to the mass of the boat, has to be moved from in front of the boat to behind it. Having a well designed hull can make that process more efficient, but the water still has to move and it is that movement that is the primary cause of disturbance to moored boats.

[cuthound]

32 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Yea me too. 

Just keep going. 

 

This photo was given to me by my neighbour on the other side of the cut.

 

It happened in 1999. Apparently it took 2 days for BW to get the bridge cleared and reopen the canal.

Edited July 28, 2022 by cuthound
Clarification

[Paul C]

Dark blue........was that BW's own hire fleet at the time?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

7 minutes ago, Paul C said:

Its pretty easy, and logical:

 

At some point, at any given speed, you pass a "commit" point at which you can no longer neatly stop, let the other boat through, then resume in a straight-ish direction. You need to judge who is closer before that commit point; or modify it by slowing in advance so its closer and easier to judge.

Maybe,

but if your eyesight is shit and blurry judging ‘your commitment point’ is always gonna be iffy. 

relying on logics don’t necessarily work in the real world
 

 

[Paul C]

Just now, Goliath said:

Maybe,

but if your eyesight is shit and blurry judging ‘your commitment point’ is always gonna be iffy. 

relying on logics don’t necessarily work in the real world
 

 

you could go slower so the point at which you need to judge, is close enough to see.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, Paul C said:

you could go slower so the point at which you need to judge, is close enough to see.

Logically you’d go faster?

Then you’d be there quicker and know whose bridge hole it is. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Goliath

[Midnight]

If I see the approaching boat speed up I just slow to a stop - life's too short.

[ditchcrawler]

52 minutes ago, Goliath said:

 

Because that really is annoying some one slowing for their bridge hole. 

It is when you are hovering and waiting for them to come through