Today's new newbie - barge houseboat

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, PabloC said:

I appreciate the replies - they're really helping work through the possibilities. 

 

I guess what it comes down to is, is a move onto the water more or less expensive than what I'm currently paying on mortgage, council tax and utilities? - the costs directly associated with the property. As MtB says, car costs etc stay the same. 

 

Even if a move didn't give me any significant financial gains, the lifestyle is one I'd enjoy - or at least like give a go. Obviously, I have no first hand experience of the expected costs, but taking energy bills alone - surely they can't be more than the 5K I paid on the flat last year?

 

And do you know what that lifestyle will include?
Are you willing to carry and empty your PortaPotti every couple of days?
Are you willing to carry a gas bottle down to your boat?
Are you willing to carry several sacks of coal to your boat quite often?
What actual experience do you have of living or even being on a boat?
Perhaps your first step should be hiring a boat for a week or two.

[Tracy D'arth]

That hulk is a money pit. I would not go near it at a third of the price. Forget the twee grey interior, its the boat structure that matters and that one is a wreck.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, PabloC said:

On paper, how does this look? http://www.willowtree-marina.co.uk/brokerage/Image files/Honey Badger.pdf

 

That looks a MUCH more suitable boat to have as a liveaboard, sketchy though the details are. Only thing obviously wrong with it is the washing machine - missing AFAICS! 

 

Also, being a cruiser stern you're paying for 8ft of boat you'll almost never use. 

[Ronaldo47]

8 hours ago, PabloC said:

Thanks, it's this thats making me even consider this move now. I have few ties except the job, a flat sale, the location is great for me and with Crossrail opening this year, house prices will sky rocket with commuters now able to cross London in 30 minutes. With the location being within 5 minutes of that line, I'm hoping that may rub off on the value of this boat. 

 

I think there is more than an element of spin about Crossrail, or as it is now called, The Elizabeth Line.

 

When up and running, it will be like a sandwich, consisting of a fast central section between Paddington and Liverpool Street (fast due to few stations),  flanked by slow  Eastern and Western all-stations sections for which the journey times at peak hours looks set to be slower than the services which they are replacing. This is because the old service pattern was to provide limited stop services in the inner region, with the limited stop trsins crossing over to use the express lines,  supplemented by additional trains serving only the inner regons to ameliorate the chronic overcrowding.  Track remodelling at Stratford and Ilford made the crossover and short distance from Ilford services impossible, and all Crossrail trains are all stations, with some short workings to other stations.

 

The latest info is that initially there will be two distinct services: Shenfield to Paddington, and Abbey Wood to either Reading or Heathrow, although for the latter service around 50% of the trains will terminate at Heathrow. So the high central section, and lesser Eastern sections,  frequencies will not extend to the Western section.

 

Ironically, while the Western section to Reading has lost/is losing  its fast services, to appease disgruntled Western section commuters, a proposal was made a couple of years ago to amend the track layout in the future to allow all-stations Crossrail trains to be overtaken by limited stop fast Crossrail trains to speed up the Western section journey times, precisely the arrangement that the poor Essex commuters have had taken away from them. 

 

For the Essex section,  Crossrail trains  have fewer seats (but greater standing capicity) than the trains they have replaced , something craftily hidden by only referring to the total number of seated and standing passengers without providing individual figures. Passenger capacity has been optimised for the predicted heavy passenger loadings of the short distance central section, at the expense of fewer seats for the  long distance traveller.

[MrsM]

£90k would buy a lovely NB as others have suggested. Save a healthy chunk of that by buying a cheaper used NB. Travel the system to find out whether you like the lifestyle and spy out some nice places to live. Sell your first boat and buy your next one once you have more experience under your belt (or keep it if, like us, your first boat suits your needs). A decent used NB shouldn't lose much money given today's market. Good luck.

[LadyG]

 

Reasons to be carefull.

See cruising the cut s latest YouTube vlog on his reasons for selling up and getting back to home ownership, just saying.

[blackrose]

5 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

And do you know what that lifestyle will include?
Are you willing to carry and empty your PortaPotti every couple of days?
Are you willing to carry a gas bottle down to your boat?
Are you willing to carry several sacks of coal to your boat quite often?
What actual experience do you have of living or even being on a boat?
Perhaps your first step should be hiring a boat for a week or two.

 

It's not really such an extreme lifestyle. Most people can adapt to it quite easily especially if like the OP it's a lifestyle you've looked into a bit. 

 

Do we know that the OP will have a portapotti? He might prefer a pump out toilet. In my experience most people don't carry heavy objects like gas bottles very far, they tend to use a trolley. It's really not that difficult to do.

 

Hiring a boat won't reveal very much unless you hire a boat in the middle of winter when most hire boat firms are closed. 

[enigmatic]

I think there's something to be said for living in a marina for a bit to prepare for cc ing (I say, having started cc ing immediately with minimal prior boating experience), but living on a bigger boat you can't move at all seems to negate those advantages

Only thing it really prepares you for is winter temperatures, and you actually miss out on the good bit of taking the boat out for weekends.

 

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I think there's something to be said for living in a marina for a bit to prepare for cc ing

 

Only if you don't connect the shoreline!

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Only if you don't connect the shoreline!

 

Or use the car park....

 

 

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Only if you don't connect the shoreline!

I nearly mentioned that!

 

Still, probably easier to learn how to manage electricity after you've mastered living in a 6' wide space, keeping it warm with a stove (and some layers of clothing) and handling the boat through locks.

[TheBiscuits]

37 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Still, probably easier to learn how to manage electricity after you've mastered living in a 6' wide space, keeping it warm with a stove (and some layers of clothing) and handling the boat through locks.

 

I'd argue that the other way.  A few months on shoreline is likely to teach you that electricity is always available and may be used.

 

A summer of that followed by setting off in autumn is a good recipe for new batteries a week later.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

A summer of that followed by setting off in autumn is a good recipe for new batteries a week later.

 

 

A winter of that followed by setting off in Spring is also a good recipe for new batteries a week later, judging by two recent threads on here.

 

[Slow and Steady]

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'd argue that the other way.  A few months on shoreline is likely to teach you that electricity is always available and may be used.

 

A summer of that followed by setting off in autumn is a good recipe for new batteries a week later.

And I'd argue that it's easier to find out while you're in a marina and able to plug back in while you scratch your head/ buy some more batteries / fit (more) solar / decide you need Lithium / decide what electricals you can do without or need to cut back on. Out on the cut when things go wrong you're in a far harder situation - at a marina you can have stuff delivered, plug in your power tools etc.

 

That's what I'll be doing. When I get settled and surviving unplugged I'll be able to set off confident with my systems and a good understanding of their capabilities.

[PabloC]

On 18/04/2022 at 18:29, Tracy D'arth said:

That hulk is a money pit. I would not go near it at a third of the price. Forget the twee grey interior, its the boat structure that matters and that one is a wreck.

Thanks to yours and others here, I've moved on my thinking to something more reasonable (below)

 

On 18/04/2022 at 18:44, MtB said:

Also, being a cruiser stern you're paying for 8ft of boat you'll almost never use. 

Something else I didn't consider, thanks.

 

23 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

It's not really such an extreme lifestyle. Most people can adapt to it quite easily especially if like the OP it's a lifestyle you've looked into a bit. 

 

Do we know that the OP will have a portapotti? He might prefer a pump out toilet. In my experience most people don't carry heavy objects like gas bottles very far, they tend to use a trolley. It's really not that difficult to do.

 

Hiring a boat won't reveal very much unless you hire a boat in the middle of winter when most hire boat firms are closed. 

I'm trying not to wear rose tinted glasses too much, I realise there will be a change in how I organise my life but I am keen to give it a go. And I like a bit of an adventure. My experience on the water so far has been a few extended stays (3 weeks at a time) on a couple's boat (friends). Although this was during good weather and none of the ownership responsibilities. 

 

I've made peace with the portapotti, the two boats I'm viewing this week (below) - one had pump out, one is portapotti.

 

11 hours ago, enigmatic said:

I think there's something to be said for living in a marina for a bit to prepare for cc ing (I say, having started cc ing immediately with minimal prior boating experience), but living on a bigger boat you can't move at all seems to negate those advantages

Only thing it really prepares you for is winter temperatures, and you actually miss out on the good bit of taking the boat out for weekends.

Thanks, I feel it might work best for me to have that step in a marina, or at least a leisure mooring?

 

On 18/04/2022 at 21:56, LadyG said:

 

Reasons to be carefull.

See cruising the cut s latest YouTube vlog on his reasons for selling up and getting back to home ownership, just saying.

I was actually watching that this morning. It all makes sense, but as a single 35 year old, even for a year or two - it's an idea that's getting me thinking. 

 

For anyone still interested, here's where I am in my decision - 

 

I'm viewing one boat tomorrow, this - https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/liverpool-boats-50-cruiser-stern-for-sale/694154

and hopefully another the weekend, this - https://england.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/hancock-and-lane-52-cruiser-stern-for-sale/695238

 

What I'm trying to work out is general fuel/electric costs, although I realise this is almost an unanswerable question -

 

Cost of gas use across the year based on a minimal hot water as possible - using marina showers, short bursts of heating to keep a consistent temperate whilst I'm out and the stoves not lit, and one cooked meal a day in general. Stove for everything else. I've seen a general consensus of 13kg every 6 weeks, which I saw at £42 today? or close to. 

 

Cost of electric - both these boats below have 12v lights and fridge. I'm planning to make use of my employer's electric and charge portable electronics daily there. My computer will have to be on for work, but I'm hoping this'll be used at a minimum - instead using the charged laptop. No washing machine, no TV. 

 

Then it's just diesel costs? I'm unsure how much I'll be moving at the moment, but I do know one of these boats can heat water through the engine? Is that more cost effective that using the gas if I'm not moving?

 

Mooring options - leisure but not sure of the limits on duration of stay. Pierre-d-terre, not heard this before but seems to be somewhere between leisure and residential. Or full residential.

 

I'm also questioning if a general repetitive route from just south of Watford, down to Brentford then along the Paddington arm into London is a large enough area to be considered CCing. If it is, this may make me consider CCing rather than mooring as there are many train connections to work - in affect my work sits in the 'v' of the Grand Union/Slough branch junction. Depending if the marina charge extra for my car to be kept there with a leisure mooring - this may work as well.

 

The second boat doesn't seem to have radiator heating - is this a bad thing? Could this be fitted? 

The second boat is also 40 years which scares me slightly, although the cost is significantly lower. 

 

Sorry these are the rambling of a newbie after a long day, not sure if I'm thinking about the right things when making my decision -

if the BSS and surveys are good and it's been out the water fairly recently, it's making sure I can control/afford the fuel costs, can budget for unexpected costs (what could these be?), then know the fixed costs. Aside from that it's doing my best to guess if the boat will be comfortably heated at a consistent level through winter.

 

I know I've mentioned heating a fair bit as a concern, am I being too soft? But I'd rather know the boat/my stuff isn't getting cold/damp and that the cats warm enough when I'm out and the stoves died down.

 

Both boats seem to have a good time left on the BSS and both recently/fairly recently blacked. 

What do people think about getting a more experienced set of eyes over the engine if I can?

 

Any suggestions? really appreciate the help so far. 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by PabloC

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, PabloC said:

Any suggestions?

 

You're overthinking this.

 

If you want to live on a boat, just buy one and get on with it!

 

[ditchcrawler]

I would go for the newer one

[Tracy D'arth]

The air cooled engine in the Hancock & Lane will not heat the water, its an old noisy engine, the boat is old. It will eat gas with an instantaneous water heater.

The Liverpool boat is not the best, you are paying a lot for the decoration. Otherwise its OK even nice. But the prices in London are ridiculous.

######  Look at boats OUT of London, they are better priced. Its easy to move a boat south, they move you know. ######

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

It will eat gas with an instantaneous water heater.

 

Disagree.

 

When I lived aboard with a Morco and showering once a day, plus washing up and cooking myself a meal or two every day, I would get through a 6kg propane bottle in about three weeks. So the 13kg most boats have might last up to a couple of months. 

[Balloon]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Disagree.

 

When I lived aboard with a Morco and showering once a day, plus washing up and cooking myself a meal or two every day, I would get through a 6kg propane bottle in about three weeks. So the 13kg most boats have might last up to a couple of months. 

I agree with this. I live aboard permanently with my 10 year old daughter. We have an absurdly large water tank which we fill every three weeks and have never run out of. As a result we shower abundantly, both of us daily and we don’t scrimp on the length of shower, usually around 5-10 mins each. We have few indulgences but this is our main one, don’t judge. We have an instant gas water heater which we use for this, as well as heating water for washing up etc. we also cook using the gas oven/hob pretty much every day, for at least 20 mins as well as using this for boiling water for drinks, and for making toast in the morning. This seemingly abundant gas use without worrying or scrimping sees us use 13kg propane every 6-8 weeks, for which we currently pay £40.

 

I’ve been following this thread with interest and am glad you’re getting a proper boat. Boating is fun! And I agree you may be overthinking it particularly the need to be quite so Spartan with your living. There’s no point doing it if you’re not enjoying yourself too. You can be miserable in a tiny flat for the same cost (I know, I live in the same area as you do!)

 

 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Balloon said:

I’ve been following this thread with interest and am glad you’re getting a proper boat. Boating is fun! And I agree you may be overthinking it particularly the need to be quite so Spartan with your living. There’s no point doing it if you’re not enjoying yourself too. You can be miserable in a tiny flat for the same cost (I know, I live in the same area as you do!)

 

^^^This!^^^

 

Dear PabloC, read and inwardly digest this. Put away the spreadsheets, stop self-flagellating and perhaps buy one of those two boats you listed earlier. Either will do, and both will get you on the water NOW. If either of them feels nice to be on, the boat is telling you to buy it. Yes this happens.

 

Buy a boat you like, not one that ticks a column of boxes. You need to like being on it, it's where you're gonna spend a lot of time. It is all too easy to look at a few boats, then a few more, then more again and never make a decision from information paralysis. 

 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

26 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

^^^This!^^^

 

Dear PabloC, read and inwardly digest this. Put away the spreadsheets, stop self-flagellating and perhaps buy one of those two boats you listed earlier. Either will do, and both will get you on the water NOW. If either of them feels nice to be on, the boat is telling you to buy it. Yes this happens.

 

Buy a boat you like, not one that ticks a column of boxes. You need to like being on it, it's where you're gonna spend a lot of time. It is all too easy to look at a few boats, then a few more, then more again and never make a decision from information paralysis. 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure there are plenty, more suitable boats for a liveaboard boat.

You must have alternative heating systems unless on shore power permanently.

A boat that has been upgraded regularly and well maintained gives one confidence.

The two brokers that regularly have good boats are ABNB and Rugby boats, look at the type of boat they have on their books.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

9 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Disagree.

 

When I lived aboard with a Morco and showering once a day, plus washing up and cooking myself a meal or two every day, I would get through a 6kg propane bottle in about three weeks. So the 13kg most boats have might last up to a couple of months. 

I don't have a gas water heater.

I cook with gas, proper cooked meals every day.

I  get 9 months out of a 13kg bottle!

 

The £40 bottle will be £80 soon......................

 

All the waste heat off an air cooled engine is lost to the global warming. With a water cooled engine after cruising in the day you have hot water through to next morning for free.

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 All the waste heat off an air cooled engine is lost to the global warming. With a water cooled engine after cruising in the day you have hot water through to next morning for free.

This of course assumes one is going to be boating and not tied up for 13.5 days and move for an hour on the 14th day. The OP really has to decide what they want from a boat.

 

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

This of course assumes one is going to be boating and not tied up for 13.5 days and move for an hour on the 14th day. The OP really has to decide what they want from a boat.

 

Give the man a break, he has to fit his life around things like working, rather than approaching it from a dedicated boater type. It's not easy changing from one conventional lifestyle to an unknown destination.x