Livaboard heating

[IanD]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe this Post - Smart Line Marine Boilers - Ocean Footprint

 

Don't know, but that doesn't look like the unit I saw. I'll ask Ricky next time I talk to him...

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Its not a balanced flue, its a draught diverter.

I thought that they were a balanced flu or that is what Terry told me

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, IanD said:

Don't know, but that doesn't look like the unit I saw. I'll ask Ricky next time I talk to him...

What boat is it on Ian? I could maybe get a picture and post it along with information?

[Tracy D'arth]

But it is a draught diverter.

 

A balanced flue appliance draws its combustion air in from outside close to the exhaust and is sealed completely to the room.  Yours is an open flue appliance with a balanced draught diverter flap that is meant to swing open if the flue suffers a negative air pressure due to wind. It will still kill you if the flue stops working at clearing the products of combustion.

[GUMPY]

6 hours ago, IanD said:

Maybe it should be pointed out that plenty of people on land only have one type of domestic heating (gas, oil, electric, solid fuel) and don't have any real problems with not having a backup?

We have always had at least two heat sources sometimes three wherever we have lived.

It is very unlikely that the gas would ever be shut off  on land as turning it back on would be a major problem unlike electric which can come and go.

 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Sounds too good to be true and I note no electrical consumption or indicative price given that I could see.

Nor an indication whether the power supply is 12 V dc or 230 V ac. Nor overall dimensions.

 

Just found a data sheet linked from https://postmarineheating.com/en/assortiment/smart-line-boiler-control/. Has dimensions and confirms unit is 230V. No price.

Edited February 12, 2022 by David Mack

[IanD]

14 hours ago, peterboat said:

What boat is it on Ian? I could maybe get a picture and post it along with information?

It was sitting in the workshop waiting to be installed when I visited last year.

[blackrose]

20 hours ago, IanD said:

Maybe it should be pointed out that plenty of people on land only have one type of domestic heating (gas, oil, electric, solid fuel) and don't have any real problems with not having a backup?

 

But then domestic gas and oil (to compare to onboard diesel) CH systems are designed for the job to run every day all year, are built with (relatively!) reliable and suitable components, and rarely break down as a consequence -- and when they do, there are plenty of people who can fix them (at hopefully reasonable cost) because there are millions of these systems out there.

 

 

Yes, you've answered your own point, although generally on land it's only those who rely solely on electric heating who would have no backup at all. Everyone else can plug in electric heaters if their other systems go wrong.

 

Anyway, living on boats is different for the reasons you mention and you should have backup systems. Just ask all the people who have attempted to live aboard relying only on Eberspacher, Webasto or Hurricane heating. They were never designed for full time domestic use and sooner or later it always ends in tears. 

[Idle Days]

8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, you've answered your own point, although generally on land it's only those who rely solely on electric heating who would have no backup at all. Everyone else can plug in electric heaters if their other systems go wrong.

 

Anyway, living on boats is different for the reasons you mention and you should have backup systems. Just ask all the people who have attempted to live aboard relying only on Eberspacher, Webasto or Hurricane heating. They were never designed for full time domestic use and sooner or later it always ends in tears. 

 

Am I being pedantic when pointing out that domestic central heating systems are totally reliant on an electricity supply to work.

 

I do agree that my limited experience of using Webasto heating has convinced me that it cannot be relied upon as a stand alone system.

 

[GUMPY]

12 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Yes, you've answered your own point, although generally on land it's only those who rely solely on electric heating who would have no backup at all. Everyone else can plug in electric heaters if their other systems go wrong.

Not so, if the electric goes off you lose your central heating be it gas or oil

[peterboat]

34 minutes ago, IanD said:

It was sitting in the workshop waiting to be installed when I visited last year.

I might pop in tomorrow Ian to see Ricky 

[Higgs]

Solid stove. Morso. You can even do cooking on it. 😊

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Higgs

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Idle Days said:

 

Am I being pedantic when pointing out that domestic central heating systems are totally reliant on an electricity supply to work.

 

 

Your point is taken, but I think we all know that if the electrical supply to a house fails then the occupier is screwed in more ways than just not being able to heat the place up.

 

When the ancient fuseboard blew up at the house on the Thames where I was mooring, the owner couldn't understand how I still had lights and TV on my boat (I had a 13 amp supply from the house). Boats are built with multiple systems - it should be part of the boaters mindset. That's why such questions as "Should I install a solid fuel stove or Webasto?" etc, are erroneous. 

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Not so, if the electric goes off you lose your central heating be it gas or oil

 

You can tell I've never owned a house...

Edited February 13, 2022 by blackrose

[Higgs]

I have an alternative to fit, but I wouldn't throw out the Morso. It's silent, can be kept going with multiple fuels, even the furniture if necessary. And as the gas ran out the other evening, finished the cooking off on it. The Morso is very versatile. 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Higgs

[GUMPY]

11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Your point is taken, but I think we all know that if the electrical supply to a house fails then the occupier is screwed in more ways than just not being able to heat the place up.

Not always, if we lose external electric we still have a gas hob to cook on and a stove in the front room for heat. It has always been that way in every property.

Also I think I may be able to switch the solar/battery system over to "off grid" so external electricity could be irrelevant in summer🌞

[IanD]

4 hours ago, Loddon said:

Not always, if we lose external electric we still have a gas hob to cook on and a stove in the front room for heat. It has always been that way in every property.

Also I think I may be able to switch the solar/battery system over to "off grid" so external electricity could be irrelevant in summer🌞

But you've got no lights either...

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Loddon said:

Not always, if we lose external electric we still have a gas hob to cook on and a stove in the front room for heat.

 

If it's off for long, you're gonna have to do a lot of cooking as the freezer will warm up! 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, MtB said:

 

If it's off for long, you're gonna have to do a lot of cooking as the freezer will warm up! 

I thought these days people make insurance claims for that happening. They suddenly have a freezer full of lamb and not the usual fish fingers. 

[Idle Days]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

But you've got no lights either...

 

Cooking by candle light is a technique learnt by those of us of mature years a long time ago.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

But you've got no lights either...

Candles and lamps

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I thought these days people make insurance claims for that happening. They suddenly have a freezer full of lamb and not the usual fish fingers. 

 

Fish don't have fingers. Except around Sellafield perhaps. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Fish don't have fingers. Except around Sellafield perhaps. 

They have toes too

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

They have toes too

And eyes. Lots of them...

[IanD]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, you've answered your own point, although generally on land it's only those who rely solely on electric heating who would have no backup at all. Everyone else can plug in electric heaters if their other systems go wrong.

 

Anyway, living on boats is different for the reasons you mention and you should have backup systems. Just ask all the people who have attempted to live aboard relying only on Eberspacher, Webasto or Hurricane heating. They were never designed for full time domestic use and sooner or later it always ends in tears. 

 

IIRC the Hurricane was designed for full-time heating...

 

(Ebers and Webbys certainly weren't though)

 

The point I was trying to make is that saying "you must have a backup heating system for when the main one fails" is just as true (or not) on a boat as in a house -- except more so on boats which use cheap diesel heaters which aren't designed for the job, which is what many people do...

 

If you have a reliable system then a backup is desirable, if you have an unreliable system then I agree that it's essential.

 

It's also possible to have modern boats where relying on having mains power is more acceptable than in a house, if you have two AC power sources (e.g. solar/battery/inverter and generator) -- which of course is expensive... 😞

 

At home we have gas CH, if this fails (very rare) the emergency backup is fan heaters -- but if the power fails, we're screwed, so this is the critical point of failure not the CH. On the boat I'll have a diesel boiler designed for the job, if this fails (also expect this to be rare) the emergency backup is fan heaters. Which is OK on a boat with a big battery bank/inverter/solar and a generator, though it wouldn't be on most boats.

Edited February 13, 2022 by IanD

[GUMPY]

20 minutes ago, IanD said:

But you've got no lights either...

If i havent switched the solar batteries over to off grid then  I have an Alladin oil lamp or LED battery powered battens from the van that I can use

Lights are the easy bit

Biggest problem for me would be the freezers but the solar should just about keep them going in winter.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Loddon