Anyone heard of Rothercraft boat builders?

[Sphinx123]

Hi everyone. New here! I'm currently looking for a boat to purchase and I found one I really liked, has a lot of potential. But it was built by Rothercraft and when I looked it up online I didn't find a single thing about Rothercraft. Is this concerning?

 

It also has a Perkins MC42 engine and I couldn't find much info about that either... 

It's a 1989 45ft boat and has been blacked every 2 years since purchase. Owner says hull is in great condition but I wouldn't know before a survey.

It's done 3364.4 hours on the clock but we aren't sure if it's broken because that seems low for the age of the boat and the amount the owner apparently like to travel

And there is water and oil in the engine bay but the owner says "it is rain water, and the drain holes are blocked. Sorry, I should have sorted the out before showing anyone the boat. You always get grease in the sump under the stern greaser that's what's cools the prop shaft."

 

Overall I really like the boat itself and the owner seems nice. But these points make me wary... should I avoid this boat? Or am I overthinking it?

 

[matty40s]

A lot of what he says is bluster but

 

. You always get grease in the sump under the stern greaser that's what's cools the prop shaft

 

 

Is absolute rubbish and indicates lack of maintenance.....unless it's a bargain, walk away.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 minutes ago, n3sh14 said:

But it was built by Rothercraft and when I looked it up online I didn't find a single thing about Rothercraft. Is this concerning?

Not really. Canal boat building is a cottage industry for the most part, with lots of people coming in and out over the years and perhaps building single digit numbers of boats. 1989 is before the www was invented, so not surprising if there are no mentions on-line. Construction quality, hull shape, how it handles, aesthetics are important, but at that age, maintenance is most important to value.

15 minutes ago, n3sh14 said:

It's a 1989 45ft boat and has been blacked every 2 years since purchase. Owner says hull is in great condition but I wouldn't know before a survey.

Without receipts with boat name going back to 1991, this is impossible to prove. I assume you are getting a survey?

16 minutes ago, n3sh14 said:

ou always get grease in the sump under the stern greaser that's what's cools the prop shaft."

No it doesn't.

16 minutes ago, n3sh14 said:

and the owner seems nice.

Niceness of the seller shouldn't be a factor in a major financial decision. Nastiness yes, but niceness can be faked.

Welcome to CWDF by the way.

Jen

 

[Hudds Lad]

3 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

…1989 is before the www was invented…

 

 Surely this all depends on your definition of WWW?

Back in 1987, as her popularity began to soar, Elizabeth “Mad Lizzie” Webb was part of an ill-fated and short-lived TV initiative by the WWF (the wildlife lot, not the lads in spandex with mullets) called the World Wild Webb or WWW. This saw Mad Lizzie and an assortment of bears attempt aerobics with members of the general public. Sadly, Mad Lizzie’s loud outfits and enthusiasm caused a hypnotic effect on the bears, causing them to go into immediate pre-hibernation binge mode and eat the nearby exercising public. This proved disastrous for the TV ratings, and the bears metabolism as lycra has little nutritional value, and so the show was axed after only 35 episodes.

There was, however, one silver lining to this televisual debacle. Pandas. As they lead a mostly monochromatic existence, Mad Lizzie’s garish attire had no effect on them whatsoever, so the WWF felt it only fitting they chose the bamboo munchers as their mascot which they remain to this day.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Pandas. As they lead a mostly monochromatic existence,

This is a left over from the regressive Panda Tax. It was less for a black and white panda than a colour one. The only pandas that could afford enough bamboo to be reproductively fit were the black and white ones and the colour pandas died out.

[Sphinx123]

57 minutes ago, matty40s said:

A lot of what he says is bluster but

 

. You always get grease in the sump under the stern greaser that's what's cools the prop shaft

 

 

Is absolute rubbish and indicates lack of maintenance.....unless it's a bargain, walk away.

This is my worry about this boat. He owns his own boat but the boat he's selling was his father's (who passed away.) He says his father took good care of it but because the guy selling it doesn't seem to know much about boats despite living on one, I'm unsure of this one. 

He's selling it for offers around £28k but I was going to go in low at £20k to be honest. However, I'm not sure now...

[Sphinx123]

47 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Not really. Canal boat building is a cottage industry for the most part, with lots of people coming in and out over the years and perhaps building single digit numbers of boats. 1989 is before the www was invented, so not surprising if there are no mentions on-line. Construction quality, hull shape, how it handles, aesthetics are important, but at that age, maintenance is most important to value.

Without receipts with boat name going back to 1991, this is impossible to prove. I assume you are getting a survey?

No it doesn't.

Niceness of the seller shouldn't be a factor in a major financial decision. Nastiness yes, but niceness can be faked.

Welcome to CWDF by the way.

Jen

 

 

Hey Jen

Yes, if I want to proceed with the boat I'm getting a survey and he said I'm welcome to.

And you're right, I shouldn't take niceness into consideration. Good reminder. Gotta keep my wits about me with something like this.

[David Mack]

Rothercraft could either be the shell builder or the fitter outerer. No results on the canalplan boat listing for Rothercraft, but you could try a search under the boat name or index number. https://canalplan.org.uk/boats/boats.php

3364 hours on a 1989 boat represents an average of about 100 hours per year, which is not that low - say 12 8 hour days. There's plenty of boats tied up in marinas that do a lot less than that. That said, hour meters do fail, or get replaced, or the current engine may not be the original.

The most fastidious boat owners will ensure that grease and water don't build up in the engine compartment, but it is very common as one of the areas of maintenance boatowners are less keen on. So don't get too hung up about it. This is a bereavement sale so it is likely the boat will have had little attention since the owner died, and possibly in the time leading up to his death too. Cruiser and senmi trad sterns are notorious for allowing water through the deck boards into the engine compartment (unless there is a well fitted canopy), so bilge water is not that surprising.

In a boat this age condition is much more important than provenance. So if the condition looks good to you and you like the boat, get a surveyor's opinion. There aren't that many boats on the market for £28k at the moment.

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

36 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

This is a left over from the regressive Panda Tax. It was less for a black and white panda than a colour one. The only pandas that could afford enough bamboo to be reproductively fit were the black and white ones and the colour pandas died out.

The Red Panda dodged this tax when it was discovered they were not true panda's at all and actually more closely related to skunks, weasels and raccoons (raccoons being called "trash panda" creating a false positive here). When asked why they referred to themselves as Panda's it was discovered they did it purely "to get the girls".

[Bee]

Its all down to the survey. It will be constructed from pretty much the same steel as very good boats as well as not so good boats. I would not take much notice aof the blacking every two years bit, I sometimes give our boat a quick whizz over with bitumastic above the waterline to freshen it up but the important bit below the water is done less often with epoxy paint so the seller might be referring to a cosmetic job and not a proper haul out. Apart from that what David Mack is right.

[Mad Harold]

Price seems high for a boat that age.

One man's great condition is another man's wreck.

If it looks neglected,it may be because of bereavement or just laziness.

A hull survey at least should confirm the basic condition.

[ditchcrawler]

46 minutes ago, n3sh14 said:

This is my worry about this boat. He owns his own boat but the boat he's selling was his father's (who passed away.) He says his father took good care of it but because the guy selling it doesn't seem to know much about boats despite living on one, I'm unsure of this one. 

He's selling it for offers around £28k but I was going to go in low at £20k to be honest. However, I'm not sure now...

Are you sure its now his to sell

19 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Rothercraft could either be the shell builder or the fitter outerer. No results on the canalplan boat listing for Rothercraft, but you could try a search under the boat name or index number. https://canalplan.org.uk/boats/boats.php

3364 hours on a 1989 boat represents an average of about 100 hours per year, which is not that low - say 12 8 hour days. There's plenty of boats tied up in marinas that do a lot less than that. That said, hour meters do fail, or get replaced, or the current engine may not be the original.

 

 

 

Mine has been round the clock

[Sphinx123]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Are you sure its now his to sell

Mine has been round the clock

I'm not sure how I'd check this to be honest haha. But it seems like it is. He said he and his sister are selling it together.

 

She has started painting the exterior but didn't finish, so the boat needs a total refit inside but also painting outside. 

[enigmatic]

How much grease are we talking about? A few drips from the stern gland doesn't sound alarming (and regreasing, cleaning up and maybe tightening stern gland nuts or repacking is pretty routine maintenance). If it's a right mess it might suggest the owner might have been lazy and let other stuff slide, but it's not half as worrying as a rusty hull.

[Sphinx123]

32 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Rothercraft could either be the shell builder or the fitter outerer. No results on the canalplan boat listing for Rothercraft, but you could try a search under the boat name or index number. https://canalplan.org.uk/boats/boats.php

3364 hours on a 1989 boat represents an average of about 100 hours per year, which is not that low - say 12 8 hour days. There's plenty of boats tied up in marinas that do a lot less than that. That said, hour meters do fail, or get replaced, or the current engine may not be the original.

The most fastidious boat owners will ensure that grease and water don't build up in the engine compartment, but it is very common as one of the areas of maintenance boatowners are less keen on. So don't get too hung up about it. This is a bereavement sale so it is likely the boat will have had little attention since the owner died, and possibly in the time leading up to his death too. Cruiser and senmi trad sterns are notorious for allowing water through the deck boards into the engine compartment (unless there is a well fitted canopy), so bilge water is not that surprising.

In a boat this age condition is much more important than provenance. So if the condition looks good to you and you like the boat, get a surveyor's opinion. There aren't that many boats on the market for £28k at the moment.

 

 

 

Thanks David! You make a lot of great points.

 

No result came up for the boat name but I'll ask for and try the index number. 

The only reason I thought the hours may be low is because I was told his dad has "been everywhere on this boat." But I guess one man's everywhere may not be the same as another's. Or, as you said, it could be broken etc.

Ok, thank you! Really appreciate your help & everyone else's.

10 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

How much grease are we talking about? A few drips from the stern gland doesn't sound alarming (and regreasing, cleaning up and maybe tightening stern gland nuts or repacking is pretty routine maintenance). If it's a right mess it might suggest the owner might have been lazy and let other stuff slide, but it's not half as worrying as a rusty hull.

There was oil in the water around the boat. So I asked to see the engine and it looked like this (image attached)

[Laurie Booth]

1 hour ago, n3sh14 said:

This is my worry about this boat. He owns his own boat but the boat he's selling was his father's (who passed away.) He says his father took good care of it but because the guy selling it doesn't seem to know much about boats despite living on one, I'm unsure of this one. 

He's selling it for offers around £28k but I was going to go in low at £20k to be honest. However, I'm not sure now...

I always get grease under the prop from the grease gun and I have a washing up bowl to collect it.

[Alan de Enfield]

That is bad.

 

The oil / oily water has oveflowed into the engine bilge.

 

DO NOT allow the bilge pump to operate as it will pump out the oil into the canal and you will be in trouble for pollution.

[JRT]

Yuck! It's clearly not been well looked after and I suspect there's an oil leak or two somewhere. That rainwater comment is likely to be rubbish too so there may be water leaks too. Personally, I would buy a boat with an engine and engine bay in this condition but others might.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, JRT said:

Yuck! It's clearly not been well looked after and I suspect there's an oil leak or two somewhere. That rainwater comment is likely to be rubbish too so there may be water leaks too. Personally, I would buy a boat with an engine and engine bay in this condition but others might.

 

Have you missed a "nt" or a "not" out of your reply ?

Edited February 10, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

I think you need to take into account the price as well. You are not going to buy a boat in pristine condition at that price, its bound to have problems, the question is how big. If thats a cruiser stern and has just sat there with no cover since last summer that amount of water is quite possible but it does show ether it hasn't got or its not an automatic bilge pump. working

[TheBiscuits]

20 minutes ago, n3sh14 said:

I was told his dad has "been everywhere on this boat." But I guess one man's everywhere may not be the same as another's.

 

He's been in the saloon, in the galley, in the heads, in the cabin, on the stern deck, in the well deck and on the roof.  That's pretty much everywhere on this boat!

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think you need to take into account the price as well. You are not going to buy a boat in pristine condition at that price, its bound to have problems, the question is how big. If thats a cruiser stern and has just sat there with no cover since last summer that amount of water is quite possible but it does show ether it hasn't got or its not an automatic bilge pump. working

 

 

Or, it has, and it has been running and flattened the batteries.

[Sphinx123]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think you need to take into account the price as well. You are not going to buy a boat in pristine condition at that price, its bound to have problems, the question is how big. If thats a cruiser stern and has just sat there with no cover since last summer that amount of water is quite possible but it does show ether it hasn't got or its not an automatic bilge pump. working

 

Definitely. My partner *loves* mechanics and spends his spare time working on engines for fun haha. (I'll never understand it!) So he is pretty confident he can sort out the engine. 

I guess my biggest concern would be the hull and the only way I'll know if there's any major problem there is through a survey. 

The interior of the boat was pretty bad - his son and I both agreed it needs to be totally gutted and refitted. So that makes me concerned about whether he truly has looked after the hull. But his son said his dad did really take care of it and he's confident it's a good quality hull. He told me of the guy who pulls the boat out the water and blacks it and said I'm welcome to talk to him, but I couldn't find him in the marina on that visit. So I'll have to decide whether to proceed with a survey! Feeling nervous haha

[Mad Harold]

One look at that photo of the engine bay would put me right off.

Personally,I would walk away from that one.

I would guess it has been owned by someone who doesn't give a monkey's about maintainance.

[David Mack]

7 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I would guess it has been owned by someone who doesn't give a monkey's about maintainance.

Or it has an open cruiser stern and has been left unattended since the owner's death and maybe during a final illness. 

 

If it was mine the first thing would be to throw some oil absorbent mats into the bilge to soak up the oil from the surface. Then pump the rest of the water from below the surface into containers - this will be pretty clean - mix in some detergent then dispose of down a foul sewer (and not the canal or a surface water/ storm drain). Or there are contractors who will remove and dispose of oily water.