Raising gas locker floor

[Katie]

Trying to tidy up my gas locker. It’s at the stern and vent is close to waterline so has let in water when under load and cruising in the past. Former owners raised the floor with bricks. I have removed these to clean out and paint the locker. Don’t want to put the bricks back in as they just weigh down more and put the vent too close/at waterline, letting more water in and apparently weren’t there as ballast.  But the vent does sit slightly higher (nearly 3 inches) than the gas locker floor. I can’t find any BSS spec stating what the max height is? 
 

Other than welding a new floor, what are other viable options for raising gas locker floor to replace the heavy dirty bricks that just caused rusting in the bottom? I have in mind plastic shelf perhaps and sealing around it? Or if height of vent is ok, will just put the cylinders on some plastic grate to protect paintwork and allow gas and water to drain. 
thoughts? 

[Tracy D'arth]

With the vent hole 3" above the floor it should fail BSS inspection!

 

It needs a hole lower down as close to the floor as possible, yes, it will let water in, that is OK.

I stand the bottles on plastic pipe pieces or UPVC window frame bits.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Katie said:

But the vent does sit slightly higher (nearly 3 inches) than the gas locker floor. I can’t find any BSS spec stating what the max height is? 

 

If as stated. ypur gas locker is a BSS failure.

 

The BSS states (quote) :

 

Cylinder locker drain openings must be located at the bottom of the locker or at the lowest point of the side.

Any area in the cylinder locker below the drain that could retain leaked LPGmust be filled with LPG‐resistant material.

 

You need to enlarge / elongate you drain hole to a 'slot' such that it reaches the botom of the locker, or drill a new (correct size according to the chart in the BSS) hole at the bae of the locker.

Any locker that can hold water must have another hole drilled above the water level such that when there is water in the locker the gas can still escape.

 

 

It is all detailed in section 7 of the BSS guidance notes

[Katie]

So it passed the BSS I’m assuming because the bricks acting as new floor that meant vent was at lowest point. Although the bricks weren’t exactly filling the whole space. It is already a slot.

 

so clearly I need to install another raised floor or put the bricks back in (which I don’t want to do) any suggestions on a better lpg resistant flooring I can install aside from welding new steel floor? The surveyor suggested builders foam but if it does ever let water in, wouldn’t  this just lead to corrosion? 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Katie said:

So it passed the BSS I’m assuming because the bricks acting as new floor that meant vent was at lowest point

 

No it should not have passed the BSS, it passed because you (or the previous owner) had a sloppy examiner who did not know the rules. It is therefore questionable as to what else he got wrong.

The vent was obviously not at the lowest point if it was 3" above the floor - it may have been below the bottom of the gas cylinders but all that means is that you could have 3" of gas collected in the bottom of the locker.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Katie said:

I need to install another raised floor or put the bricks back in (which I don’t want to do) any suggestions on a better lpg resistant flooring I can install aside from welding new steel floor?

 

 

I had a corroded gas locker floor which the examiner said would fail the next BSS and suggested I filled it with a couple of inches of concrete.

Adding (say) 3" of concrete into a 2' x 2' locker is going to add minimal weight to the boat and will not make it sit any lower in the water (well - maybe a couple of mm)

It will also bring your gas locker back to compliance regarding the drain hole.

 

Edit to collect the erurs from brain going facster than figers

Edited July 14, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Katie said:

So it passed the BSS  

But it shouldn't have

[BEngo]

Even with bricks in it should not pass BSS. There are still unventilated spaces for the gas to collect.

 

In the early days of the BSS many a gas locker floor was raised by filling the base with concrete. In your case, while it would be better than bricks because it fills the whole space,  it will have a simllar unwanted effect on draught and trim

 

The proper solution is a welded in false floor.  That should not be too expensive, unless you are in the London zone.  There is no need to slip or dock the boat and any decent site welder should be able to do the welding.  I had mine done and it was about a morning's work for two lockers each holding two 13kg bottles.

 

N

[system 4-50]

If the bricks reasonably filled the space so that there was no room for gas to accumulate I see no reason why the BSC should be refused.  Remember that AdeE's view on everything is always the most extreme and should be taken with 1/2 cwt of salt.  When you get a BSS examiner in, you may get a fanatic on applying every rule literally or you may get a more practical and sensible one.  Shove whatever you like in the hole to fill up the space that a ) avoids corrosion and b ) is easy to remove, then be prepared to change this material according to whims of your next BSS examiner.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

If the bricks reasonably filled the space so that there was no room for gas to accumulate

 

I presume that is said 

 

 

 

[Katie]

I didn’t get the BSS done was pre purchase by former owners. But regardless, they passed it based on the set up they had. Most the space was filled by bricks with inch or so gap along the edge which was usually filled with water anyway so I guess gas wouldn’t of accumulated. 
 

anyway, I want to improve that set up. Thanks for suggestions. I will look for a better interim set up while I sort getting new floor welded in then I guess.
 

so far it’s been cleaned out and Couple coats of rust proof paint chucked on. Already an improvement. 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Katie said:

I will look for a better interim set up while I sort getting new floor welded in

 

 

I';m sure if the cylinders have been sat on bricks, it'll be fine - BUT - if welding in a new floor several inches higher, just ensure that the height of the gas locker is still such that the walls are higher than the valve / regulator on the cylinders.

 

17 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Remember that AdeE's view on everything is always the most extreme and should be taken with 1/2 cwt of salt.

 

Remember AdE does not take the extreme view, he takes the laws / requirements as they are stated, and provides the evidence to support them.

He has no axe to grind if you decided to ignore them, that would be your choice and for you to argue with the insurers SHOULD the worse happen

 

I suppose if he were to say when you see this sign it means a maximum of 30 mph, you would suggest that is the most extreme interpretation of its meaning.

 

[Tracy D'arth]

The best thing to fill up the floor is Latex floor self leveling compound.  Concrete will cause the steel to corrode around the edges especially as it will get wet, there is no way of avoiding it.

[Katie]

Oh this sounds like a more viable option thanks! 
 

 

11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The best thing to fill up the floor is Latex floor self leveling compound.  Concrete will cause the steel to corrode around the edges especially as it will get wet, there is no way of avoiding it.

This sounds more like what I had in mind thanks! 

[Katie]

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I';m sure if the cylinders have been sat on bricks, it'll be fine - BUT - if welding in a new floor several inches higher, just ensure that the height of the gas locker is still such that the walls are higher than the valve / regulator on the cylinders.

 

 

Remember AdE does not take the extreme view, he takes the laws / requirements as they are stated, and provides the evidence to support them.

He has no axe to grind if you decided to ignore them, that would be your choice and for you to argue with the insurers SHOULD the worse happen

 

I suppose if he were to say when you see this sign it means a maximum of 30 mph, you would suggest that is the most extreme interpretation of its meaning.

 

Yea totally appreciate this. I want to do things right on my boat. Which is why even though it technically passed the BSS I want to make this gas locker set up better and improve the maintenance of the boat. 
 

latex flooring compound sounds like a good option for me and can do it myself.

 

yes the locker is deep enough to store 13kg cylinders even when raised on bricks so the valves/regulator are all contained within the walls.  

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If as stated. ypur gas locker is a BSS failure.

 

The BSS states (quote) :

 

Any area in the cylinder locker below the drain that could retain leaked LPGmust be filled with LPG‐resistant material.

 

49 minutes ago, Katie said:

Most the space was filled by bricks with inch or so gap along the edge which was usually filled with water anyway

 

Are bricks and water not LPG-resistant then?🙂

 

I agree with others. As you have the height just get a raised floor fitted - either steel welded in or a suitable solid filling. I wouldn't like builders foam - too soft, and flammable too, so probably not 'LPG-resistant'.

[system 4-50]

Remember that the HP hoses need to drain down slightly to the cylinders from the regulator so the regulator needs to be at an appropriate height.

[Katie]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

 

Are bricks and water not LPG-resistant then?🙂

 

I agree with others. As you have the height just get a raised floor fitted - either steel welded in or a suitable solid filling. I wouldn't like builders foam - too soft, and flammable too, so probably not 'LPG-resistant'.

Haha would seem they are according to the latest BSS cert. but also not a nice combo for the steel in the locker! Just caused lots of canal sludge to accumulate in the bottom too which was gross but satisfying to clean out! 
 

yep agree builders foam not an option. Gonna go the latex self levelling compound route I think 

5 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Remember that the HP hoses need to drain down slightly to the cylinders from the regulator so the regulator needs to be at an appropriate height.

Ok great will double check that! Pretty sure regulator sits just above cylinder valves though so should be ok 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Katie
Add info

[Col_T]

 

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

If the bricks reasonably filled the space so that there was no room for gas to accumulate

 

At home, I've had bricks 'blow' because water got in and then froze. Ice takes more volume than water, hence the face of the brick being blown off the body of the brick.

 

So, if a brick can absorb water, surely it can absorb gas.

[Katie]

3 minutes ago, Col_T said:

 

 

At home, I've had bricks 'blow' because water got in and then froze. Ice takes more volume than water, hence the face of the brick being blown off the body of the brick.

 

So, if a brick can absorb water, surely it can absorb gas.

Agree. Bricks are essentially porous which is why I don’t want to put them back in! Couple were broken too and inevitably get gaps. Saying that…Water filled those gaps so kind of helped with the whole gas accumulation problem i guess. 
 

no idea how it manage to pass BSS really my surveyor was also surprised. But then he suggested the builders foam so it’s all up to interpretation I suppose! 
 

hopefully whatever I do will be an improvement at least 

[36national]

i had this problem with the vent being close to the waterline  allthough my gas locker is in the front. I blocked the original hole  cut and shaped 2 bits of 1 inch thick  plywood  to raise the gas locker floor by 2 inches sealed the plywood with blackening drilled a new vent then sealed the plywood in with decorators caulk (as its non adhesive) then blacked over the lot. that was 4 months ago. Ill pull the whole lot out next year to see if there is any corrosion going on underneath. if its ok ill replace it and then pull it out every 2 years which is the maintenance cycle for my wet lockers anyway. I know it aint an elegant solution but if you weld a new floor in then you have a space that you cant inspect and using foam or similar means you re using something which can retain water in a place where it will get wet.  ( i know that plywood isnt the best performer in the wet which is why i blacked it but hey at least its cheap to replace). My BSS examiner said that some pour concrete to fill the gap which he didnt like but didnt fail) I dont like my solution but at least it can be undone with relative ease. A vent hole 3 inches above the floor is about as much use as the proverbial chocolate ashtray on the proverbial motorcycle in the Sahara

[Katie]

6 minutes ago, 36national said:

i had this problem with the vent being close to the waterline  allthough my gas locker is in the front. I blocked the original hole  cut and shaped 2 bits of 1 inch thick  plywood  to raise the gas locker floor by 2 inches sealed the plywood with blackening drilled a new vent then sealed the plywood in with decorators caulk (as its non adhesive) then blacked over the lot. that was 4 months ago. Ill pull the whole lot out next year to see if there is any corrosion going on underneath. if its ok ill replace it and then pull it out every 2 years which is the maintenance cycle for my wet lockers anyway. I know it aint an elegant solution but if you weld a new floor in then you have a space that you cant inspect and using foam or similar means you re using something which can retain water in a place where it will get wet.  ( i know that plywood isnt the best performer in the wet which is why i blacked it but hey at least its cheap to replace). My BSS examiner said that some pour concrete to fill the gap which he didnt like but didnt fail) I dont like my solution but at least it can be undone with relative ease. A vent hole 3 inches above the floor is about as much use as the proverbial chocolate ashtray on the proverbial motorcycle in the Sahara

Yeah I did start looking into some sort of plastic platform to cut to fit and then use sealant around edges. Can’t quite find the right thing though. Maybe plastic decking could work? I don’t think can get away with making the vent any higher and being able to fit decent sized gas bottles in there so I’m not looking to blank off the vent, just raise the floor so the vent doesn’t sit above it! 

[36national]

yes i couldnt quite find the right thing either hence the plywood

 

reading back through this thread what is this "the LPG hoses have to drain down towards the cylinders ? I was unaware of this 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

12 minutes ago, 36national said:

i had this problem with the vent being close to the waterline  allthough my gas locker is in the front. I blocked the original hole  cut and shaped 2 bits of 1 inch thick  plywood  to raise the gas locker floor by 2 inches sealed the plywood with blackening drilled a new vent then sealed the plywood in with decorators caulk (as its non adhesive) then blacked over the lot. that was 4 months ago. Ill pull the whole lot out next year to see if there is any corrosion going on underneath. if its ok ill replace it and then pull it out every 2 years which is the maintenance cycle for my wet lockers anyway. I know it aint an elegant solution but if you weld a new floor in then you have a space that you cant inspect and using foam or similar means you re using something which can retain water in a place where it will get wet.  ( i know that plywood isnt the best performer in the wet which is why i blacked it but hey at least its cheap to replace). My BSS examiner said that some pour concrete to fill the gap which he didnt like but didnt fail) I dont like my solution but at least it can be undone with relative ease. A vent hole 3 inches above the floor is about as much use as the proverbial chocolate ashtray on the proverbial motorcycle in the Sahara

I am amazed that a plywood platform with unventilated space beneath, sealed with combustible sealant, as part of a gas locker ever past BSS examination.

[36national]

well it hasn't passed a BSS yet hence my interest in this thread  but my BSS examiner said it would be OK. to clarify there is no unventilated space underneath, the floor is  solid. Blackening when dry is no more combustible than paint the risk from gas is explosion not fire.

[dmr]

Is the locker floor permanently below the water line or does it just get a bit wet from time to time due to little waves or turbulent locks etc?

 

Many, probably most, gas lockers get a bit wet. Derust the floor if required and paint it with a good epoxy and live with it. Don't worry about it, just do a good check for rust every year or two.

Any sort of false floor including leveling compounds is a BIG risk. Unless it is 100% watertight, and I stress 100%, then water will get trapped below it and rust out the steel floor where you can not see what is going on.

 

............Dave