Gas Changeover Valve (Auto)

[Arthur Marshall]

According to the BSC examiner, I need a new gas regulator. There appear to be dozens of the things out there, but none at Midland Chandlers, so any reccomendations (I never could spell that) for an automatic changeover valve will be gratefully received.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Search results for: 'lpg propane chane over valve' (bes.co.uk)

 

These are the ones we use on the caravan park. (they last around 8 to 10 years)

 

Clesse HC Two Pack Auto Changeover Kit with OPSO - 21478 (bes.co.uk)

[Keeping Up]

Plus one for that one

[Paringa]

I have one of these...

 

Clesse Compact 100 Automatic Changeover LPG Propane Gas Regulator Kit POL | Automatic Low Pressure Changeover Kits | gasproducts.co.uk

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Paringa said:

I have one of these...

 

Clesse Compact 100 Automatic Changeover LPG Propane Gas Regulator Kit POL | Automatic Low Pressure Changeover Kits | gasproducts.co.uk

 

We used those on one caravan and had to replace it twice (so a total of three units) in 5 years. Which is why we changed to the more expensive ones.

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We used those on one caravan and had to replace it twice (so a total of three units) in 5 years. Which is why we changed to the more expensive ones.

We have that one. After 10 years it is still fine (and I think you are supposed to replace them every 10 years?)

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, nicknorman said:

We have that one. After 10 years it is still fine (and I think you are supposed to replace them every 10 years?)

 

Maybe it is the exposed position secrewed onto a caravan outside wall that is causing the problems.

Some of the "expensive" ones are coming up to 10 years old so I'll need to check the legislation on commercial installations.

[nicknorman]

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe it is the exposed position secrewed onto a caravan outside wall that is causing the problems.

Some of the "expensive" ones are coming up to 10 years old so I'll need to check the legislation on commercial installations.

Ours is inside the gas locker. But surely a caravan regulator is inside a gas locker equivalent? Or is this a static van you are talking about?

 

As to the 10 year thing, this is definitely the advice but whether or not it is mandatory for a commercial installation I don’t know.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Or is this a static van you are talking about?

 

 

We have a static van park.

2 or 4 or 6, 47Kg cylinders per caravan on an outside wall. Regulator / change over valve screwed onto the wall, open to the elements.

[Cheshire cat]

What's the purpose of it. How do you know it has swapped over?

 

We've had two gas bottles 13Kg in six years. If one gives up we turn the other on.

 

Willing to be enlightened

[Alan de Enfield]

They have a little red 'flag' in a window

The gas automatically changes over and then the red flag indicates the bottle is empty.

Replace the empty cylinder

Turn the 'knob' on the flag so it is hidden The knob pointing towards the 'old cylinder' (not the one you have just replaced)

When the next cylinder is empty the flag goes red.

Replace the empty cylinder

Turn knob towards the other cylinder 

 

Repeat

Repeat

 

[nicknorman]

47 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

What's the purpose of it. How do you know it has swapped over?

 

We've had two gas bottles 13Kg in six years. If one gives up we turn the other on.

 

Willing to be enlightened

How you know it has swapped over has been explained by Alan. What the purpose of it is so that when one cylinder runs out you don’t:

1) ruin of seriously delay the Sunday roast you were cooking because you hadn’t noticed the oven flames had gone out

2) have to go outside in the pissing rain and dark to change the cylinder.

3) have a cold shower when the gas runs out just after you’ve soaped yourself up (instant gas water heaters only).

 

In summary it means that you get to change the cylinder when it suits you, you are not at the mercy of the outgoing cylinder.

Edited July 10, 2021 by nicknorman

[Arthur Marshall]

According to the BSC bloke, the internals of the valve clog up with the stuff added to the gas to make it smell, and gradually the pressure reduces. Mine has apparently dropped by about a third, which probably explains why the gas fridge isnt cooling as well as it did.

He reckoned they'd need replacing every five or six years.

[nicknorman]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

According to the BSC bloke, the internals of the valve clog up with the stuff added to the gas to make it smell, and gradually the pressure reduces. Mine has apparently dropped by about a third, which probably explains why the gas fridge isnt cooling as well as it did.

He reckoned they'd need replacing every five or six years.

This is true, my caravan regulator was astonishingly full of gloop! However I think 5 or 6 years is on the short side. But it also depends on the layout of your installation. If the installation is correct in that there is a steady fall between regulator and cylinder, that gloop tends to run back into the cylinder. Problems occur when there is a fall between the cylinder and the regulator for at least part of the way - then the gloop tends to collect and can get into the regulator gubbins.

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

This is true, my caravan regulator was astonishingly full of gloop! However I think 5 or 6 years is on the short side. But it also depends on the layout of your installation. If the installation is correct in that there is a steady fall between regulator and cylinder, that gloop tends to run back into the cylinder. Problems occur when there is a fall between the cylinder and the regulator for at least part of the way - then the gloop tends to collect and can get into the regulator gubbins.

That makes sense. My regulater is considerably higher than the cylinders and it must have been in about ten years.

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

How you know it has swapped over has been explained by Alan. What the purpose of it is so that when one cylinder runs out you don’t:

...

2) have to go outside in the pissing rain and dark to change the cylinder.

3) have a cold shower when the gas runs out just after you’ve soaped yourself up (instant gas water heaters only).

 

In summary it means that you get to change the cylinder when it suits you, you are not at the mercy of the outgoing cylinder.

 

(2) may well be true, but you can be equally sure that it will be persisting it down with rain when you eventually do changeout the empty.

 

The other problem is easily solved with a cauliflower instead of gas fired hot water.   

 

 

[TNLI]

Anyone use Hydrogen generators or gas bottles ??

 

I don't do heavier than air gas or petrol on a boat, as I've been too close to 2 explosions, both propane valve leaks, one in a yard and another in a marina. Any gas cooker can be converted to run on H, but it's very difficult to buy a good Hydrogen burner. Although the bottles are available, some folks use 12v Hydrogen generators to direct feed their stoves. The burners can be made by a good machine shop and the plans are in Google, but that would cost more than a new Origo 5000, or Taylors paraffin & diesel burner!

[TNLI]

14 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Ours is inside the gas locker. But surely a caravan regulator is inside a gas locker equivalent? Or is this a static van you are talking about?

 

As to the 10 year thing, this is definitely the advice but whether or not it is mandatory for a commercial installation I don’t know.

It should be, but the good thing about most caravans is their doors don't fit too well, so the Propane limbo dances under the bottom of the door or hatch lid and off into the distance. Butane is worse as it's 4 times heavier than air.

 

Don't forget, a steel gas locker should have an electric remote shut off valve wired to a bilge alarm, and have the lockers overboard drain tested by smoke to confirm it's not blocked with water cos the angle of dangle is wrong! The same locker can be used for petrol, as that's another heavier than air bombers dream gas.

 

Finally when you turn off a gas cooker in a boat, do it by switching the shut off valve switch off, NOT by turning off the actual stove knob, like wot gets you failed in a safety on board test. If the cooker continues to burn after the red light goes out, the valve has failed. The alarm should also be tested with a small dab of nail varnish remover near it, although I just open a small tin of paint next to one I'm checking for faults.

 

I love the Origo 1500 and 3000, and both are now back in production, although I use a paraffin burner in port. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by TNLI
Extra line.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, TNLI said:

Don't forget, a steel gas locker should have an electric remote shut off valve wired to a bilge alarm, and have the lockers overboard drain tested by smoke to confirm it's not blocked with water cos the angle of dangle is wrong! The same locker can be used for petrol, as that's another heavier than air bombers dream gas.

 

 

I have not come across that before - Is that a legal requirement ?

[GUMPY]

13 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

What's the purpose of it. How do you know it has swapped over?

 

We've had two gas bottles 13Kg in six years. If one gives up we turn the other on.

 

Willing to be enlightened

The purpose of an auto gas changeover is to make sure when you do run out of gas both cylinders are empty because you haven't checked it for ages.

There is one fitted to this boat but I only turn one  cylinder on at a time, so I know when the first cylinder is empty.

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I have not come across that before - Is that a legal requirement ?

I really hope not.

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I really hope not.

 

He does seem to have a rather poor understanding of both gas and electricty on boats.

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, Loddon said:

The purpose of an auto gas changeover is to make sure when you do run out of gas both cylinders are empty because you haven't checked it for ages.

There is one fitted to this boat but I only turn one  cylinder on at a time, so I know when the first cylinder is empty.

For a similar reason, I have 3 Thetford Cassettes .... when the second is full, there is no excuse for the third being full before the others are emptied!  

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, Loddon said:

The purpose of an auto gas changeover is to make sure when you do run out of gas both cylinders are empty because you haven't checked it for ages.

There is one fitted to this boat but I only turn one  cylinder on at a time, so I know when the first cylinder is empty.

Belfast doesn't even have a manual changeover valve, just two pigtails from the bottles tee'd into the regulator input. Only one bottle turned on at a time, with collars over the valves marked 'Full', 'In Use' or 'Empty' as appropriate.

[nicknorman]

11 hours ago, TNLI said:

It should be, but the good thing about most caravans is their doors don't fit too well, so the Propane limbo dances under the bottom of the door or hatch lid and off into the distance. Butane is worse as it's 4 times heavier than air.

 

Don't forget, a steel gas locker should have an electric remote shut off valve wired to a bilge alarm, and have the lockers overboard drain tested by smoke to confirm it's not blocked with water cos the angle of dangle is wrong! The same locker can be used for petrol, as that's another heavier than air bombers dream gas.

 

Finally when you turn off a gas cooker in a boat, do it by switching the shut off valve switch off, NOT by turning off the actual stove knob, like wot gets you failed in a safety on board test. If the cooker continues to burn after the red light goes out, the valve has failed. The alarm should also be tested with a small dab of nail varnish remover near it, although I just open a small tin of paint next to one I'm checking for faults.

 

I love the Origo 1500 and 3000, and both are now back in production, although I use a paraffin burner in port. 

Most of that is not applicable to canal boats (aka wrong and misleading information). Bearing in mind your location I imagine it might apply to sailing yachts.