Charging flat leisure batteries

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Bod said:

 

I shall be going Stoke Hammond way, by next week, if a pair of eyes on the ground will be of help. (with meters, and spanners)

 

Bod.

Good man.  Sounds like some numpty has butchered the wiring good and proper, anyone we know?  She will need preheaters in winter with a BMC 1.5D.

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Good man.  Sounds like some numpty has butchered the wiring good and proper, anyone we know?  She will need preheaters in winter with a BMC 1.5D.

 

I did suggest that she started first with them connected, then after a few minutes stop and disconnect them and then start it again.

37 minutes ago, Bod said:

 

I shall be going Stoke Hammond way, by next week, if a pair of eyes on the ground will be of help. (with meters, and spanners)

 

Bod.

 

Thanks Bod. Basically we just need to know that the volts at the batteries jump up as it is first revved. If they do then the chances are its charging so if there is little in the domestic bank after a day of charging it more or less proves the batteries are US.

[Katie]

1 hour ago, Bod said:

 

I shall be going Stoke Hammond way, by next week, if a pair of eyes on the ground will be of help. (with meters, and spanners)

 

Bod.

Really appreciate this. More proof that the community is a big plus to boat life! Hopefully I’ve got my head round it now and have helping hand from my dad and his generator at the weekend but may take you up on the offer if still finding it tricky. Regardless, you’ll probably see me carting my belongings up and down the towpath as I continue move aboard  

[Katie]

Hi all thanks so much for the help. I ended up getting breakdown out as starter was flat again. The guy was fantastic and realigned my alternator, gave her a jump start and explained the system to me and where I was going wrong plus lots of extra advice.

 

next step… decide on a solar panel system and get it installed ASAP! 

[OldGoat]

14 minutes ago, Katie said:

Hi all thanks so much for the help. I ended up getting breakdown out as starter was flat again. The guy was fantastic and realigned my alternator, gave her a jump start and explained the system to me and where I was going wrong plus lots of extra advice.

 

next step… decide on a solar panel system and get it installed ASAP! 

Please realise (if you're not already) that solar panels are not the ultimate solution. They only work in strong-ish sumlight and not at all when its grey...

[bizzard]

Do we know how old Katie's boat is, it might have an old Lister in it, SR2 for instance with the small alternator drive pulley on the camshaft, hence very low charge rate.

[Katie]

On 19/06/2021 at 10:18, OldGoat said:

Please realise (if you're not already) that solar panels are not the ultimate solution. They only work in strong-ish sumlight and not at all when its grey...

Hey! Yes do realise not a solution but certainly good idea to help keep the batteries topped up  rather than relying solely on the engine when I don’t intend to do many long trips 

[David Mack]

On 19/06/2021 at 10:18, OldGoat said:

Please realise (if you're not already) that solar panels are not the ultimate solution. They only work in strong-ish sumlight and not at all when its grey...

I find that my single solar panel is enough to keep the starter and domestic batteries charged over the winter when there are no electric appliances in use. It doesn't need much sun to produce enough to overcome the self-discharge of the batteries when the boat is unoccupied.

[Bod]

On 16/06/2021 at 15:45, Tony Brooks said:

 

I did suggest that she started first with them connected, then after a few minutes stop and disconnect them and then start it again.

 

Thanks Bod. Basically we just need to know that the volts at the batteries jump up as it is first revved. If they do then the chances are its charging so if there is little in the domestic bank after a day of charging it more or less proves the batteries are US.

Batteries at 9.05v on arrival.  14.5v after starting engine, with a few rev's.

Batteries are fairly new sealed leisure types, with the "magic eye" there appears to be a split charge relay.

There is a modern Sterling 40(?)amp  battery charger.

 

 

Bod

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, Bod said:

Batteries at 9.05v on arrival.  14.5v after starting engine, with a few rev's.

Batteries are fairly new sealed leisure types, with the "magic eye" there appears to be a split charge relay.

There is a modern Sterling 40(?)amp  battery charger.

 

 

Bod

 

Thanks Bod

 

Was that 14.5 on the domestic battery clamps or posts, ditto the engine  battery, or the boat's voltmeter?

 

Pending the answer it is beginning to seem the 9.05 volt bank is simply not getting charged so that implies there may be a fault in the charge splitting or there are shorting battery cells. However, straight to 14.5 does not suggest the 9 volt batteries are connected to the alternator. If such batteries were I would expect only a bit over 13 volts.

 

@Katie Next time you are on the boat for a few hours, take some jump leads. Start the engine. Then connect one from engine battery positive and domestic battery positive, taking great care not to let any metal parts of the leads touch any part of the bat's metal. Then look at the both bank's negative terminals. If they are joined by a thick lead leave it at that. If not use the other jump lead to join them. Then see if they charge up. If they do, its the charge splitter.

[Bod]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Thanks Bod

 

Was that 14.5 on the domestic battery clamps or posts, ditto the engine  battery, or the boat's voltmeter?

 

Pending the answer it is beginning to seem the 9.05 volt bank is simply not getting charged so that implies there may be a fault in the charge splitting or there are shorting battery cells. However, straight to 14.5 does not suggest the 9 volt batteries are connected to the alternator. If such batteries were I would expect only a bit over 13 volts.

 

@Katie Next time you are on the boat for a few hours, take some jump leads. Start the engine. Then connect one from engine battery positive and domestic battery positive, taking great care not to let any metal parts of the leads touch any part of the bat's metal. Then look at the both bank's negative terminals. If they are joined by a thick lead leave it at that. If not use the other jump lead to join them. Then see if they charge up. If they do, its the charge splitter.

14.5 on the battery clamp, via my multi meter.  Positive clamp on No1, negative clamp on No4 all batteries read the same.  Terminals in good clean, dry condition, no corrosion.

 

Bod

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Bod said:

14.5 on the battery clamp, via my multi meter.  Positive clamp on No1, negative clamp on No4 all batteries read the same.  Terminals in good clean, dry condition, no corrosion.

 

Bod

Thanks, so it looks like the batteries have had it. A long charge should prove it.

I have had an update from Bod. The 14.5 was on the battery terminal lead so it looks like a battery problem. I have known faulty lead burning on one of the interlinks give that type f symptom but as they are now inside the batteries its  impossible to diagnose it.

[Katie]

On 19/06/2021 at 10:18, OldGoat said:

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Thanks, so it looks like the batteries have had it. A long charge should prove it.

I have had an update from Bod. The 14.5 was on the battery terminal lead so it looks like a battery problem. I have known faulty lead burning on one of the interlinks give that type f symptom but as they are now inside the batteries its  impossible to diagnose it.

thanks guys really appreciate you’re helping figuring this out though am obviously disappointed that it seems like the batteries are dead. 
 

at the moment I’m thinking it’s best to just get them replaced as doing long charge sounds likely to just prove they are no good. plus not easy for me to charge them for that long realistically. Potential to find a spot at a marina and charge from shoreline but with cost of that I may as well just throw the towel in with them? 
 

 

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Katie said:

 

 

I think I would buy just one battery for now instead of all of them. Then if it charges you know the system is working and if not you won't have spent money on a whole bank. One battery will not supply your domestic electrics for long but it should be enough to prove the system is working. If it does charge then you will know its worth fitting the whole bank

[Alan de Enfield]

at the moment I’m thinking it’s best to just get them replaced as doing long charge sounds likely to just prove they are no good. plus not easy for me to charge them for that long realistically. Potential to find a spot at a marina and charge from shoreline but with cost of that I may as well just throw the towel in with them? 

 

I think that this may be (one of ) the root problems, if you don't have time to charge your batteries, or are reluctant to pay the cost of a shoreline to charge them you are going to get into this same situation every week because you have destroyed the new batteries, and need to replace them, a week later .......... repeat ...........

 

You do need to understand what is necessary to fully charge your batteries and how to keep them recharged to 95% every day and 100% charged at weekends. This could mean running the engine for (typically) 3 or 4 hours every day and 8 hours at weekends.

If you are unable to do that then you may have to consider taking a mooring that has a shoreline supply.

[David Mack]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This could mean running the engine for (typically) 3 or 4 hours every day and 8 hours at weekends.

Or fit solar.

[Katie]

I’ve booked into a marina temporarily to hook up to the mains and give them a good charge. Then will see if they can hold it and go from there. 
 

yes I will be getting solar to help keep them topped up. Just deciding on best set up/ size panels at the moment. 

[doratheexplorer]

2 minutes ago, Katie said:

I’ve booked into a marina temporarily to hook up to the mains and give them a good charge. Then will see if they can hold it and go from there. 
 

yes I will be getting solar to help keep them topped up. Just deciding on best set up/ size panels at the moment. 

Do you have the facility to do a desulphation charge while you're plugged in?  This means charging the batteries at over 15v for a few hours.  That blast of electricity will take some of the sulphation off the battery plates and can help to revive seemingly knackered batteries. 

 

Many battery chargers won't let you do this though.

 

 

On 19/06/2021 at 10:18, OldGoat said:

Please realise (if you're not already) that solar panels are not the ultimate solution. They only work in strong-ish sumlight and not at all when its grey...

This just isn't true.  I can often get over 10 amps going in on grey days.  That's from 500w of panels.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Do you have the facility to do a desulphation charge while you're plugged in?  This means charging the batteries at over 15v for a few hours.  That blast of electricity will take some of the sulphation off the battery plates and can help to revive seemingly knackered batteries. 

 

Many battery chargers won't let you do this though.

 

Whilst some smart chargers don't allow you to do this, many / most  cheap 4 amp non-smart chargers from the likes of car accessory shops will.

 

You cannot programme them, being non-smart and unregulated means that their output voltage just continues to rise and rise, so ir does take a little bit of monitoring and 'management' to avoid boiling the batteries at 20v !!

 

I suggest a 4 amp charger as equalisation is taken at low current and high voltage - you do not want to be trying to charge at 20 / 50 / 100 amps at 15v-16v

 

I have a cheap 4amp Halfords one that was about £8 (some years ago) I monitor the voltage and once it gets around 15v + give it a maximum of 1 hour at that, or if it rises to 16v switch it off.

 

Alternatively (if at home) I use my desk-top power supply (as discussed in the Sticky "Battery Primer") I dial in 15v and 2 amps and it'll just sit there at that voltage and current.

But for boat use a small cheap charger (if you are prepared to do the monitoring) is the way to go.

 

[Katie]

20 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Do you have the facility to do a desulphation charge while you're plugged in?  This means charging the batteries at over 15v for a few hours.  That blast of electricity will take some of the sulphation off the battery plates and can help to revive seemingly knackered batteries. 

 

Many battery chargers won't let you do this though.

 

 

This just isn't true.  I can often get over 10 amps going in on grey days.  That's from 500w of panels.

I need to check but think my battery charger may do this. It’s a Sterling pro charge ultra 12v-30a I’ve got the manual on board so will take a look 

[doratheexplorer]

12 minutes ago, Katie said:

I need to check but think my battery charger may do this. It’s a Sterling pro charge ultra 12v-30a I’ve got the manual on board so will take a look 

It's worth checking, but I think that charger has a manual setting mode where you can select what charge voltage you want.  Google de-sulphation charging for more advice.  Start with the de-sulphation charge and then put it onto normal charging.

 

I've just checked and your charger will do this.  Sterling recommend charging at 15.5v for 4 hours.

[Tony Brooks]

A note of caution. If they are open cell batteries, top them up to the internal marker of about 3mm above the "plates" with distilled/deionised water before equalising.

 

If they are not open cell batteries then equalisation over several hours is not normally a good idea because it will drive of water in gas form with no mean sof topping up but in this case, as the batteries seem to be highly suspect, I can't see it doing much more harm.

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

Oh and while I think of it:

 

1.  Keep the area well ventilation while doing it. 

2.  Top up the cells with distilled water afterwards.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, doratheexplorer said:

Oh and while I think of it:

 

1.  Keep the area well ventilation while doing it. 

2.  Top up the cells with distilled water afterwards.

 

And any rag or paper you use to clean the acid mist off batteries, please rinse in the canal and dispose of it asap while wet. It just might spontaneously combust as the acid "evaporates" and concentrates itself on dry rag.

[Katie]

Thanks guys appreciate it but admittedly All sounding a bit out of my depth at the moment to be honest. I’m not confident messing with the batteries at all was hoping hooking up to shoreline and ensuring battery charger is set to correct settings regarding type of batteries would do the job. Sounds like maybe not? 

hopefully someone at the marina can help. 
thanks though