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Expectations for my Budget.


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First of all - Hello to everyone, I hope you are all safe and well...

 

As the title suggests I am looking for some feedback as to what I can expect for my budget of 25 - 35k

 

Background - I am a single guy ( 2 dogs aside) based in Manchester and have a chance of a mooring in the area so started (last month or so) looking for a narrowboat. Having looked down all the private avenues (facebook, gumtree, ebay) with no success Then, I found a traditional 50 foot 1998 Liverpool built  narrowboat. I was initially very interested but learned it had been over plated by the previous owner (not a boatbuilder) with 4mm steel and decided to walk away. 

 

After this, to get a better understanding as to what I can expect for my money I called a few brokers to simply ask the question....Hay, for 25 - 35k, what can I expect? 

 

The answer was a resounding 'nothing!' - I was informed that due to steel prices 40k would get me something very rough and I would need at least 50k for anything even approaching decent.

 

So - Is the dream over until I can save another 15k?

 

Any and all information welcome.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Two years ago you may have got lucky and found something - now, I think the brokers are probably right (they are in the business after all!).

However, in a couple of years there may well be a lot of boats on the market which could drive prices in general down, after all the people who are buying now find the annual running costs too much, and would rather fly off to the sun.

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Hi,

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I thought it was worth throwing it out the wider community but as you say, the brokers are the business end of things so would most likely be a good source of truth. 

 

I just didn't want my ignorance and ego to lead me down a money pit path.

 

Thanks again and I hope you have a great sunday.

 

Gareth.

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4 minutes ago, Kendorr said:

Give this one a look, just slightly over your budget

 

https://www.nationwidenarrowboatsales.com/viewlisting2.php?id=471

 

Also a couple to look at here

 

https://bluewatermarina.co.uk/boats-for-sale

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

The first one I could probably push to with a bit of financial manoeuvring but given what the brokers are saying, what's the chances of it being physically sound hull wise? 

 

Obviously id be getting a survey done but if the chances of it coming back as being good is low wouldn't it be kind of a waste of 1 - 2k (further depleting my budget)

 

Thanks for the reply :)

 

Gareth. 

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9 minutes ago, garethcorner said:

Obviously id be getting a survey done but if the chances of it coming back as being good is low wouldn't it be kind of a waste of 1 - 2k (further depleting my budget)

 

I think you're taking the doom and gloom from some brokers to heart. It is very likely that most boats will have a survey from a few years ago, not that you should take that as gospel, but it's a good start. and, in my opinion, a survey you would pay for is never a waste. Also, if I remember right, the last survey I had on my last boat cost £650, this included lifting out of the water, the survey and report, and re-floating.

 

My advice, get out there and have a look at some boats, not reading about them, but actually seeing and walking on them.

 

Forgot also, welcome to the forum.

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2 minutes ago, Kendorr said:

 

I think you're taking the doom and gloom from some brokers to heart. It is very likely that most boats will have a survey from a few years ago, not that you should take that as gospel, but it's a good start. and, in my opinion, a survey you would pay for is never a waste. Also, if I remember right, the last survey I had on my last boat cost £650, this included lifting out of the water, the survey and report, and re-floating.

 

My advice, get out there and have a look at some boats, not reading about them, but actually seeing and walking on them.

 

Forgot also, welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the welcome. :)

 

I am a very head over heart person but I think if I could find a boat in my price bracket that has had a survey in the last few years (that was good) I would feel more confident and would happy have another done. I totally agree that a survey is crucial and my figure of 1 - 2k was again based on the feed back from a broker (the 50ft boat I had interest in was from a broker and I visited it) https://www.aqueductmarina.co.uk/second-hand-boats/jenilka/

 

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I will keep looking (with my head not my heart)

 

Gareth. 

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1 hour ago, garethcorner said:

 

I just didn't want my ignorance and ego to lead me down a money pit path.

 

 

I'm afraid boat ownership is a money pit whatever your level of knowledge/ignorance and your ego. 

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Also in your budget at Aqueduct is Reflections. On the market since September, when it was priced 5k higher and looks superficially in good condition (I actually might have put an offer in if I hadn't seen ghe boat I ultimately bought 30 mins later). Since then it's had a survey.

Did you find out what was wrong with it?

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3 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Also in your budget at Aqueduct is Reflections. On the market since September, when it was priced 5k higher and looks superficially in good condition (I actually might have put an offer in if I hadn't seen ghe boat I ultimately bought 30 mins later). Since then it's had a survey.

Did you find out what was wrong with it?

 

It is always a concern when someone has gone to the expense (£800 - £1000) of having a survey and then, presumably, walked away from the boat. There must have been some serious (expensive) issues found.

So problems are known, and buyer did not consider it viable to have the repairs done at the asking price, and / or, the seller refuses to accept the problems and keeps the price 'high' , no negotiation, hoping someone will come along and buy it anyway.

 

 

4 hours ago, garethcorner said:

Then, I found a traditional 50 foot 1998 Liverpool built  narrowboat. I was initially very interested but learned it had been over plated by the previous owner (not a boatbuilder) with 4mm steel and decided to walk away. 

 

 

When a boat is overplated the 'new' thickness is not added to the previous thickness, the boat now becomes (in this example) a 4mm thick hull.

Most / majority / many (it varies day by day) insurers are now insisting on a minimum of 4mm thickness for fully-comp insurance, so the slightest corrosion or pitting even 0.1mm means that the boat may well not be insurable.

 

Best to keep walking.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is always a concern when someone has gone to the expense (£800 - £1000) of having a survey and then, presumably, walked away from the boat. There must have been some serious (expensive) issues found.

So problems are known, and buyer did not consider it viable to have the repairs done at the asking price, and / or, the seller refuses to accept the problems and keeps the price 'high' , no negotiation, hoping someone will come along and buy it anyway.

 

I'm well aware I may have dodged a bullet! Still, the original purchaser may have had too high expectations and it is at least 5k less now and just about in the OP's budget, so always worth finding out whether it's a case of the original buyer expectations being too high or whether it needs 5k+ of overplating work doing (run a mile at that price!)

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5 hours ago, garethcorner said:

First of all - Hello to everyone, I hope you are all safe and well...

 

As the title suggests I am looking for some feedback as to what I can expect for my budget of 25 - 35k

 

Background - I am a single guy ( 2 dogs aside) based in Manchester and have a chance of a mooring in the area so started (last month or so) looking for a narrowboat. Having looked down all the private avenues (facebook, gumtree, ebay) with no success Then, I found a traditional 50 foot 1998 Liverpool built  narrowboat. I was initially very interested but learned it had been over plated by the previous owner (not a boatbuilder) with 4mm steel and decided to walk away. 

 

After this, to get a better understanding as to what I can expect for my money I called a few brokers to simply ask the question....Hay, for 25 - 35k, what can I expect? 

 

The answer was a resounding 'nothing!' - I was informed that due to steel prices 40k would get me something very rough and I would need at least 50k for anything even approaching decent.

 

So - Is the dream over until I can save another 15k?

 

Any and all information welcome.

 

Thanks in advance.

There are plenty of decent boat available but alas they have gone up a tad of late. they will crash and burn when Benidorm and other hovels become available for holidays again. We have a decent boat here for sale for 45k with a full MOT and a sound hull and engine etc etc but last year it would have probably been 10 grand less.

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5 hours ago, garethcorner said:

First of all - Hello to everyone, I hope you are all safe and well...

 

As the title suggests I am looking for some feedback as to what I can expect for my budget of 25 - 35k

 

Background - I am a single guy ( 2 dogs aside) based in Manchester and have a chance of a mooring in the area so started (last month or so) looking for a narrowboat. Having looked down all the private avenues (facebook, gumtree, ebay) with no success Then, I found a traditional 50 foot 1998 Liverpool built  narrowboat. I was initially very interested but learned it had been over plated by the previous owner (not a boatbuilder) with 4mm steel and decided to walk away. 

 

After this, to get a better understanding as to what I can expect for my money I called a few brokers to simply ask the question....Hay, for 25 - 35k, what can I expect? 

 

The answer was a resounding 'nothing!' - I was informed that due to steel prices 40k would get me something very rough and I would need at least 50k for anything even approaching decent.

 

So - Is the dream over until I can save another 15k?

 

Any and all information welcome.

 

Thanks in advance.

Have you considered getting a grp cruiser instead of a narrow boat?

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Looking around, bad boats that last year would be scrap are fetching £12K to £20K. 

Steel prices have tripled, all the repairers are pulled out with work sorting older boats out for buyers with fists full of cash that they have not spent on entertaining and holidays.

 

It may calm down but many of these new hirers this year may just decide to buy a boat, in which case prices may take off again.

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2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Looking around, bad boats that last year would be scrap are fetching £12K to £20K. 

Steel prices have tripled, all the repairers are pulled out with work sorting older boats out for buyers with fists full of cash that they have not spent on entertaining and holidays.

 

It may calm down but many of these new hirers this year may just decide to buy a boat, in which case prices may take off again.

This is also true. Everythng has gone up lol. I decided to buy a poxy house this year and the one Ive bought has tripled in price since it was last bought less than twenty years ago. Lets hope the crash we were promised post brexit someday actualy happens and prices will tumble to a reasonable level?

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1 minute ago, garethcorner said:

 

 

Im looking into this now - thanks for the idea.

 

Regards.

 

If you are planning on the boat as a liveaboard then the heating (keeping warm / insulation) of a GRP can be more complicated but not insurmountable.

 

We have a GRP and with the diesel eberspacher it gets warm enough at any time of the year - it does cool down quite quickly but lean out of bed in the morning, click-the-switch and within 10 minutes the boat is toasty warm, or, as we often do, just leave the heater ticking over on the thermostat 24/7.

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28 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Have you considered getting a grp cruiser instead of a narrow boat?

A grp boat is a safer (and cheaper) alternative to a steel narrowboat,in that there is no rust or MIC (read about MIC on here and I am glad I don't own a steel boat anymore)

It depends on what you use your boat for.If weekends or short stays,then a grp cruiser will be fine.If you want to live aboard full time,then a narrowboat is more suitable.

A grp cruiser can be made quite habitable,but will usually need work to make it so.

Size,heating,insulation, and hot water will need consideration.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are planning on the boat as a liveaboard then the heating (keeping warm / insulation) of a GRP can be more complicated but not insurmountable.

 

We have a GRP and with the diesel eberspacher it gets warm enough at any time of the year - it does cool down quite quickly but lean out of bed in the morning, click-the-switch and within 10 minutes the boat is toasty warm, or, as we often do, just leave the heater ticking over on the thermostat 24/7.

Yes - the idea is to live aboard with my two dogs. I not afraid of a little cold (ex military). In terms of maintenance and life span what would you say the main points of a GRP cruiser would be?

 

Thank you. 

2 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

A grp boat is a safer (and cheaper) alternative to a steel narrowboat,in that there is no rust or MIC (read about MIC on here and I am glad I don't own a steel boat anymore)

It depends on what you use your boat for.If weekends or short stays,then a grp cruiser will be fine.If you want to live aboard full time,then a narrowboat is more suitable.

A grp cruiser can be made quite habitable,but will usually need work to make it so.

Size,heating,insulation, and hot water will need consideration.

I am wanting a live aboard but if kitting out a GRP is mainly just 'work' then with piece of mind I get from the that type of boat I would be totally fine with it. Im reading up on them now. Seems quite a good avenue to explore! 

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1 minute ago, garethcorner said:

Yes - the idea is to live aboard with my two dogs. I not afraid of a little cold (ex military). In terms of maintenance and life span what would you say the main points of a GRP cruiser would be?

 

Thank you. 

 

Maintenance of the 'hull' will be considerably less than a steel boat

Maintenance of the fittings, engine etc will be the same.

Lifespan of GRP is to some extent unknown as it has only been in use for about 70 years.

 

GRP can suffer 2 problems :

1) Osmosis which is where you get bubbles (scabs) developing on the outside of the Hull, burst these and you get an acidic / vinegary smell. Surveyors make a big issue that Osmosis can weaken the structure, but to my knowledge a GRP boat has never broken up or sunk due to osmosis.

 

2) Delamination. Most GRP boats are buit as a sandwich GRP / Balsa / GRP, or GRP / Foam / GRP. If water penetrates the hull it can get into the structure and cause delamination between the layers.

 

Neither of these 'problems' are going to have any great affect on a canal-going boat. It would be of more concer in a boat crossing the Atlantic and crashig thru a Force 8 storm.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maintenance of the 'hull' will be considerably less than a steel boat

Maintenance of the fittings, engine etc will be the same.

Lifespan of GRP is to some extent unknown as it has only been in use for about 70 years.

 

GRP can suffer 2 problems :

1) Osmosis which is where you get bubbles (scabs) developing on the outside of the Hull, burst these and you get an acidic / vinegary smell. Surveyors make a big issue that Osmosis can weaken the structure, but to my knowledge a GRP boat has never broken up or sunk due to osmosis.

 

2) Delamination. Most GRP boats are buit as a sandwich GRP / Balsa / GRP, or GRP / Foam / GRP. If water penetrates the hull it can get into the structure and cause delamination between the layers.

 

Neither of these 'problems' are going to have any great affect on a canal-going boat. It would be of more concer in a boat crossing the Atlantic and crashig thru a Force 8 storm.

I can confirm I will not be crossing the Atlantic in any kind of weather :) 

 

Thanks for the info. Im liking the look of a GRP boat. :) 

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8 minutes ago, garethcorner said:

Just so I know im looking at the right kind of thing....is this what you are meaning guys?

 

https://motorboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/viking-cruisers-32-for-sale/666669

 

Thanks 

 

 

Yes - ideally try and find a boat with an inboard diesel engine rather than a petrol outboard.

 

Petrol is not readily available on the canal network and you will have you walk to a nearest town / village to find a petrol station. The maximum amount of petrol you are legally allowed to store on a boat is 30 litres which, depending on how much you move, will not last long.

 

The other point is that an Outboard motor only generates enough electricity to recharge its own battery (a very very small alternator - usually around 8-10 amps) You need way, way more than that for a liveaboard boat with phone chargers, lights, pumps, computers etc. so you would need to run a generator most (every ?) days to charge your domestic batteries. More petrol, more restrictions on use and storage for your safety certificate.

 

Edit to add - a diesel inboard engine will typically have a 70amp alternator

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Yes - ideally try and find a boat with an inboard diesel engine rather than a petrol outboard.

 

Petrol is not readily available on the canal network and you will have you walk to a nearesr town / village to find a petrol station. The maximum amount of petrol you are allowed to store on a boat is 30 litres which, depending on how much you move, will not last long.

 

The other point is that an Outboard motor only generates enough electricity to recahtge its own battery (a very very small alternator - usually around 8-10 amps) You need way more than that for a liveaboard boat with phone chargers, lights, pumps, computers etc. so you would need to run a generator most (every ?) days to charge your domestic batteries. More petrol, more restrictions on use and storage for your safety certificate.

AHH! gotchya! I'll narrow my search to a diesel inboard. Thanks as always :) 

 

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