Lock Surges

[mykaskin]

4 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I rather think that depends on the length of the boat.

 

If it's short enough not to be an issue then there wouldn't be the problem with the boat getting knocked around so much. Also it still stands, even a shorter boat is more controlable with bow and stern lines.

[Tacet]

23 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Best way is to go up with another boat, that stops you banging around. Only problem is that finding another moving boat on the KandA can be tricky!

 

23 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

He says his problem is hitting the sharing boat ;

 

 

On 15/05/2021 at 18:01, Porcupine said:

Thanks. But the problem is surging backwards and forwards. It is being pushed across the lock and hitting  boat on the opposite side to the one Iits being held. 

He says his problem is hitting (his) boat on the opposite side side - no mention of a sharing boat.

 

There is some good advice in this thread issue, but anyone who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall, as whenever you think you have a fine technique, it will go embarassingly wrong before long.   The odd bang rarely does any real damage providing the crockery is not stacked high on the draining board.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

29 minutes ago, Tacet said:

He says his problem is hitting (his) boat on the opposite side side - no mention of a sharing boat.

 

I misunderstood what he meant when he said "hitting the boat on the other side", I didn't realise he meant "hitting his boat on the othrt lock wall"

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, mykaskin said:

If it's short enough not to be an issue then there wouldn't be the problem with the boat getting knocked around so much. Also it still stands, even a shorter boat is more controlable with bow and stern lines.

 

Doesn't that depend how many crew there are?

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

 

Doesn't that depend how many crew there are?

 

One locking and one steering is enough.

 

Take a long line from the bow, around one or two bollards and back down to the steerer.  It's easiest with a handrail to take a turn round, but I have fitted cleats there for some boats.

 

There is a staggering difference in control between this long locking line and using a centreline, because of the extra leverage.

[Machpoint005]

Good point, which I shall bear in mind at our next wide lock. Still, I haven't had a problem using exactly that technique, but with the centre line (on a 48-footer).

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

Good point, which I shall bear in mind at our next wide lock. Still, I haven't had a problem using exactly that technique, but with the centre line (on a 48-footer).

 

Try it if you have a long enough line.

 

A sub 50 foot boat should usually be fine in broad locks anyway with a couple of notable exceptions.  The bow isn't usually in the full force of the water from ground or gate paddles.

 

 

[NB Alnwick]

Last time we came up a flight of wide locks we strapped two boats together side by side and left one crew member aboard to control both boats using just one engine - it worked for us . . .

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, NB Alnwick said:

Last time we came up a flight of wide locks we strapped two boats together side by side and left one crew member aboard to control both boats using just one engine - it worked for us . . .

My much preferred way in wides, fine till you get to the Blue Lisa bridge!

[Drayke]

Watching and helping 70ft fuel boat up the Caen hill flight, boat enters lock, gates closed, boat reverses back to bottom gates, bow tied of to bollard tiller hard over to keep stern against the lock side and forward gear engaged and some revs applied, both top paddles opened fully no problems, boat stays up against the lock side. You do need GOOD rope for this.

[bluelapsing]

On 15/05/2021 at 19:44, nicknorman said:

Generally in wide lock the technique is to open the ground paddle on same side first. Exceptions are the T&M wide locks and the K and A. With the latter, all bets are off because as Dave says, they are all different!

 

Best way is to go up with another boat, that stops you banging around. Only problem is that finding another moving boat on the KandA can be tricky!

 

A very retrospective thanks - having never done a wide lock before and approaching the T&M (and then under the spectre of storm flooding) this little tidbit is like stumbling over a rare-and-actually-useful gem!

[nicknorman]

49 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

 

A very retrospective thanks - having never done a wide lock before and approaching the T&M (and then under the spectre of storm flooding) this little tidbit is like stumbling over a rare-and-actually-useful gem!

No probs. And just for clarity, this relates to going uphill in the lock. If going downhill it doesn't matter which side you open first.

[magnetman]

On the GU I used to like hitching a line from the tee stud to the hold back pin by the top gate anchor with a marlinspike hitch.  Bow against the cill going up then all paddles up one by one. 

 

The starn did move around but filling the lock quickly was always more pleasurable than worrying about the boat contact. 

 

The broken Ming vase is a great asset in case of needing to claim against someone who strikes the boat while moored. 

 

 

I think they have taken out the hold back pins now which is a shame.

 

Not been on the GU north of Ricky for over a decade. 

 

 

[GUMPY]

25 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

I think they have taken out the hold back pins now which is a shame.

Many of those on here wouldn't know what a holding back pin was even if they tripped over one.

And as for its use.

 

[Ken X]

I notice they have hold back pins on the River Wey locks still.  Very useful they are too.

[magnetman]

Yes I seem to recall they are slightly thinner and taller than the GU type.

 

 

[nicknorman]

12 minutes ago, Ken X said:

I notice they have hold back pins on the River Wey locks still.  Very useful they are too.

Yes, but the forward suction is fierce and there is mostly just a gate paddle which you don’t want to get too close to! GU locks don’t have the same degree of forward suction.

[GUMPY]

7 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes, but the forward suction is fierce and there is mostly just a gate paddle which you don’t want to get too close to! GU locks don’t have the same degree of forward suction.

Is it suction?

 

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Is it suction?

 

No it’s sloping water, but it’s more understandable to say “suction”.

[system 4-50]

2 hours ago, GUMPY said:

Many of those on here wouldn't know what a holding back pin was even if they tripped over one.

And as for its use.

 

As one of the un-initiated(?) can somebody supply a pic and provide a copy of the user manual?

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

No it’s sloping water, but it’s more understandable to say “suction”.

It could be argued that there is no such thing as suction

 

[Ken X]

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

As one of the un-initiated(?) can somebody supply a pic and provide a copy of the user manual?

This is the best I could find.  Weybridge lock on the Wey.  The hold back pin is the yellow pin just by the gate top strap.

 

[magnetman]

10 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Yes, but the forward suction is fierce and there is mostly just a gate paddle which you don’t want to get too close to! GU locks don’t have the same degree of forward suction.

True. I have done the Wey several times and no I haven't used the pins. 

 

Boat kept further back and bow tied to a bollard. However I have not been on the Wey in a full length boat. One might use them if the boat filled the lock. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Ken X said:

This is the best I could find.  Weybridge lock on the Wey.  The hold back pin is the yellow pin just by the gate top strap.

 

That is by the bottom gate. I was referring to the pins by the top gates on GU locks. 

 

The GU lock hold back pins were supposedly used to keep the butty back and prevent it going forwards into the closed gate presumably to help with single gate exiting of locks. The butty steerer could then flick the rope orf the pin when needed. 

 

I don't know if this is what they were for but they were by the top gate anchors. 

 

The yellow one on the river Wey by the bottom gate seems to be newer and possibly for the opposite use ie to stop barge going forwards in lock as it is filling. 

 

 

 

. 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by magnetman

[Ken X]

Its interesting looking at these things. 

 

The pins are fitted to most, if not all, locks on the Wey and definitely help by preventing the boat surging forward and then across the lock when filling by use in conjunction with a bow line.  If the bow catches the flow from the top paddles it really chucks it sideways very quickly and thumps it into the far lock side.  I have seen it catch a crew member in the bow of a boat dozing and and rip the bow line through their hands.  I have no idea whether these new pins replaced older pins or bollards but they have been there several years and I was warned to use them when first on the Wey years ago.

[magnetman]

It looks like the hold back pins on the GU (by the top gates) have mostly been removed. 

 

Scanning streetview I found this one at lock 66 which I think has been cut short. They were about 2 inches high and slightly angled so you could throw an eye over easily. This is by the top gates. 

 

 

 

 

 

The river Wey yellow pins seem to be made of rebar and set in cement. 

 

I wonder if these pins were put in because people tended to use the gates for the purpose of holding the boat which then caused damage to the gates. 

Marsworth flight seems to have some pins still. 

 

 

They seem shorter. I wonder if elfin safety said they were risky. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by magnetman